Until such a time that Disney declares the EU apocryphal the LFL Canon Policy remains the final word on canon.

And that canon has offered an absolute statement as to the stature of Darth Sidious in relation to historical Sith Lords.

His view isn't "Biased and prejudiced." His view is correct. Sidious IS the most powerful Sith Lord in history, people only say the emperor is stronger because they like his background story :roll:

Now THAT is biased/Prejudiced...

Everybody is biased to a certain degree about his/her favorites; however, some are capable of being rational regardless.

Another thing is, the Vitiate destroying the strike team... Kk great. Sidious slaughtered three incredibly powerful Jedi within seconds, simply because of his incredible blade work, and the fact they couldn't sense him by precognition...

And that's not even his most powerful feat, just showing that he can do something Vitiate can but better.

Those 3 Jedi (accompanying Mace Windu) that Sidious slaughtered aren't exactly noted for their (supposedly great) command of the Force but rather proficiency in Jedi dueling arts (martial aspects of combat). Kit Fisto is specially pathetic in use of the Force; he couldn't even Force push Grievous properly. While I do believe that effectiveness in bladework is dependent upon "Command of the Force" aspect as well and this is why Sidious slaughtered Tinn, Kolar and Fisto so easily. However, up against one of the strongest and most resolute Jedi of the Order (i.e. Mace), Sidious failed to overwhelm him.

In contrast, all four Jedi (whom Vitiate overwhelmed simultaneously) are canonically among the strongest and most resolute of the Order; and Vitiate overwhelmed them with his powers; not bladework. The comparison here indicates that Sidious does not even comes close to Vitiate during PT/OT era in "command of the Force" aspect on the whole.

Oh. And Sidious literally created a force power. His force storm could destroy fleets, and planets if he tried and wasn't stopped by the Skywalkers.

 

That's pretty boss indeed

Force Storm is not a Sidious exclusive talent. Much of the dark side techniques/powers have been created by ancients; Sidious rediscovered some. On the other hand, Vitiate did create new powers; he purged a Dark Council with a mysterious power as an example.

In addition, Sidious never destroyed a whole planet with Force Storm; if he did then provide me proof. As far as I know, he did destroy a fleet with Force Storm.

One thing I would like to point out that both Vitiate and Nihilus were capable of inflicting planetary scale devastation on their own.

Hint about Vitiate:

Planetary-scale destructive abilities?

 

Tenebrae, after his first transformation, possibly acquired the capability to devastate an entire planet with his Force abilities, should he desire.

 

 

“Nathema was just the beginning,” Scourge agreed. “He will destroy world after world, his power and madness growing in concert until he alone is left, Emperor over an empty and lifeless galaxy.”

 

Meetra stared at the two in horror.

 

“You’ve been to Nathema,” Scourge said. “You felt the Void. You know what the Emperor is capable of.”

 

“She understands,” Revan said, reading her expression more accurately than Scourge. “That’s not it.”

 

“He’s quarantined Dromund Kaas,” Meetra said, trying to lead them to the same conclusion. “What if he’s preparing to do the same thing here that he did on Nathema?”

 

Scourge hadn’t considered that possibility, and it chilled him to his core.

 

“Is that possible?” he asked. “Nyriss told me the ritual on Nathema took days, if not weeks. And the Emperor had to trick hundreds of other powerful Sith into working with him so he could draw on their power.”

 

“He’s stronger now,” Revan said. “But even if it’s possible, I don’t think he’ll go that far. At least not yet. He is too patient, too careful. Dromund Kaas is the heart of his Empire and the seat of his power. He has too many valuable resources here to throw it all away. (SWTOR: Revan)

 

 

Revan is absolutely correct:

 

 

Lord Vitiate takes command of the Sith Empire, now in shambles following the Great Hyperspace War. He executes the Sith Council and consumes the life force of thousands of Sith Lords in a terrifying ritual that extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force. (SWTORE, Page 16)

-----

You know I'm reading the SWTOR encyclopedia and not seeing a thing about Vitiate being a Dark Side Master or the most powerful Sith or anything of the sort.

This is funny! Shall I tell you page numbers?

*cough* Dark Empire, cus the Force Storm clearly isn't the most powerful display ever.

It is "one of the" to be precise.

Sith Sorcery is a pathway to unlock/unleash most destructive dark side abilities actually.

Until such a time that Disney declares the EU apocryphal the LFL Canon Policy remains the final word on canon.

 

And that canon has offered an absolute statement as to the stature of Darth Sidious in relation to historical Sith Lords.

This is getting old! Sidious earned such a stature in C-canon works. However, the lore is continuously expanding so authors try to come up with ways to keep things consistent. For example: Malgus is regarded as one of the strongest predecessors of Sidious in a source (Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side) but not much is known/revealed about Vitiate and his Dark Councilors in the same source (This source is written in a manner that it presents POV of different characters).

Check this thread to understand what kind of promotion Vitiate is receiving recently: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=651536

Gentlemen. We're all reasonable men here.

Number One: Vitate is NOT dead. HoT killed his Voice. He is RECUPERATING. He has not had a canon death as of yet.

Number 2: It's not particularly fair to either of the Sith Lords to pit them against each other. Palpatine ruled through trickery and deceit, and open subterfuge, though nowhere near Vitate's level. He was one of the most powerful Force Users of his time, and obviously surpassed Anakin, and could have easily beaten Luke, at least up until the whole EU-Luke-is-now-god-of-the-jedi ******tery.

Number 3: Vitate, however, was vastly different. He had enough Force Power to rule a world at age 13, and, at least early on in his reign, relied on physically fighting/tricking, then mind-dominating his allies. But later on-his Children infiltrated every pore of the Republic, and he pitted the Council against themselves, to keep the lesser Sith in line. Vitate's Empire was fragile, a weight balanced on a deck of cards. Vitate used eons of secrecy to conceal himself, and there is a point Palp supporters have had-Palpatine ruled a GALACTIC Empire.

However, Vitate's Empire was the largest Sith Empire to date. SITH Empire. Bickering, squabbling Lords, with the power to kill hundreds if they willed it hard enough. It's a MIRACLE his Empire lasted 1,300 years. Palpatine used the open power of the clone/stormtrooper armies and Vader's power as a bludgeon against any open rebellion. Vitate simply let his enemies come to him, and killed them with Force Lightning.

More on this later, but I had to state my opinion.

Whilst I don't know much about Vitiate, I know enough to say that, in all honesty, Vitiate was stronger.

 

However I think Sidious use his power much more wisely. Which makes him the more powerful of the two.

 

It's not the amount of power you have, it's how you use it.

You are correct.

Vitiate is obviously stronger.And he is an entity ,he is not a mortal and doesn't care about the sith.However Sidious CAN beat him.Just like a small fighter destroyed the Death Star.Obviously Sidious's power compared to Vitiate's is much much stronger than when comparing the fighter to the Death Star,but the same principle remains.

Vitiate is obviously stronger.

You can keep saying that, but that doesn't make it true.

Also, why is this thread back?

You can keep saying that, but that doesn't make it true.

 

Also, why is this thread back?

Because people cant read dates correctly, or so I assume.

Because people cant read dates correctly, or so I assume.

It seems that way.

Star Wars: Episode ???: Attack of the Nerdrage

que the text crawl then cut to an angry 30-something person in a room full of collect-ables, citing drivel as his/her sources....

Star Wars: Episode ???: Attack of the Nerdrage

 

que the text crawl then cut to an angry 30-something person in a room full of collect-ables, citing drivel as his/her sources....

Hardly. This stuff isn't exactly hard to find on the Internet.

Star Wars: Episode ???: Attack of the Nerdrage

 

que the text crawl then cut to an angry 30-something person in a room full of collect-ables, citing drivel as his/her sources....

Darth Marr:

Interesting...

Vitiate IS Palpatine. Palpatine was possessed by Vitiate just as he goes on to try to posses others.

Take it you haven't read Darth Plagueis.

Number One: Vitate is NOT dead. HoT killed his Voice. He is RECUPERATING. He has not had a canon death as of yet.

According to the Lead Writer at SWTOR, Hall Hood, he is dead. Perhaps not in spirit, but he has experienced a bodily death. See here, skip to 27:00 to hear about the Emperor.

His physical body is dead, though the lead writer states just because that body died does not mean he has died. That and he stated that the Emperor probably took that defeat very badly.

It should be noted that The Emperor actually "dies" TWICE in the game.

For whatever reason, his defeat on Dromund Kaas was a lot more devastating though. My best guess is that the Voice killed there was the last one currently available, and thus he had to go back to his original body. And then he apparently fell into a coma, or something. The details are weird. I'm not sure exactly what the real case is. Or if he did go back to his old body or is simply living with no body at all.

What I do know is that the Emperor is definitely still alive. And he probably will return one day.

(Responding directly to the Original Post)

That is because these sources date back to before the swtor lore took off. Vitiate vaporized everything on an entire planet. He stripped the force itself away, could instantly dominate the mind of any being in the galaxy (with the exception of you-know-who). Sideous couldn't even defeat a single opponent. He was a master strategist, ever-so-carefully planning his rise to power. It succeeded because of his cunning and his deception. His raw power in the force was but a speck of dust compared to the continental size of Vitiate's mastery. He 1shot the entire dark council. Your pre-swtor quotes are nothing in the face of the direct lore.

(Responding directly to the Original Post)

 

That is because these sources date back to before the swtor lore took off. Vitiate vaporized everything on an entire planet. He stripped the force itself away, could instantly dominate the mind of any being in the galaxy (with the exception of you-know-who). Sideous couldn't even defeat a single opponent. He was a master strategist, ever-so-carefully planning his rise to power. It succeeded because of his cunning and his deception. His raw power in the force was but a speck of dust compared to the continental size of Vitiate's mastery. He 1shot the entire dark council. Your pre-swtor quotes are nothing in the face of the direct lore.

So many errors. So many flaws. Destroying this post would be too easy.

So many errors. So many flaws. Destroying this post would be too easy.

Do it! Do it!!!

So many errors. So many flaws. Destroying this post would be too easy.

Tell me of one. Prove you are right.

(Responding directly to the Original Post)

 

That is because these sources date back to before the swtor lore took off. Vitiate vaporized everything on an entire planet. Only after a complex ritual taking several months and the combined power of a few hundred other Sith Lords He stripped the force itself away No, the ritual did, could instantly dominate the mind of any being in the galaxy (with the exception of you-know-who) Exal Kressh, Revan, HoT, Meetra Surik, Scourge ect... would like to disagree. Sideous couldn't even defeat a single opponent. sorry, can't hear you over fleet annihilating force storms... He was a master strategist, ever-so-carefully planning his rise to power. Cause the original Sith Empire's total defeat at the hands of the republic and his subsequent fleeing with the shattered remains of the Sith was totally the plan all along right? Your pre-swtor quotes are nothing in the face of the direct lore. The OP firstly, is using accepted cannon sources that have yet to be retconned. Until Lucas or disney comes out and says point-blank that Vititate is the best or Sidious isn't, then the out of universe fact remains that Sidious is the most powerful per-G-Cannon (aka Lucas himself). Wolf was being nice about trying to convince fanboys the old fashioned way.

Well that's all I have for now, Aurbere can expand or correct me at his discretion.

Edit: the date the source came into existence matters only in the case of encyclopedias that are updated and if something has been retconned/written over in which case the newer stuff *usually* is superior. But considering this is about Lucas's greatest villain, I haven't and don't expect to see Sidious be dethroned as greatest Sith ever. (at least until 2015)

Well that's all I have for now, Aurbere can expand or correct me at his discretion.

 

Edit: the date the source came into existence matters only in the case of encyclopedias that are updated and if something has been retconned/written over in which case the newer stuff *usually* is superior. But considering this is about Lucas's greatest villain, I haven't and don't expect to see Sidious be dethroned as greatest Sith ever. (at least until 2015)

I could individually debate each point, but I think that would be fairly monotonous. I suggest merely that you do as I requested in my post. Prove it. You stated your disagreement, but you provided no proof.

I could individually debate each point, but I think that would be fairly monotonous. I suggest merely that you do as I requested in my post. Prove it. You stated your disagreement, but you provided no proof.

What exactly do you mean by this?

Proof: Revan novel- Meetra Surik, Revan, and Scourge all face the Emperor. Not one of them is dominated and Revan (an unimpressive Jedi in many respects) even gives him some solid resistance. The Hero of Tython is dominated, but then learns how to resist it. Exal Kressh in the Blood of the Empire resists him and betrays him despite the emperor's grip on her mind.

Proof: For Sidious not being able to beat a single opponent? (rather he can and is quite proficient at it)

So there is this from the movies

this, this, this, this, this, and this. And those are just the start...

Oh, and I'll also drop this from ole' palp's wookieepedia page's talk section where the editors discuss changes.

"Just for the record, at least two official sources have stated that Sidious was "the most powerful Sith Lord in history": The Dark Side Sourcebook and the New Essential Guide to Chronology. This argument has nothing to do with opinions, the official sources have spoken. Let it be known that Sidious is the most powerful.--Exor 17:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)"

I also fail to see how the burden of proof is ours. Vititate is the challenger, thus is the one that must be proven to be more powerful, and the repeated cannon statements of Sidious's superiority especially in source-books need to be addressed by the Vititate Fanboys with something better than "but that was said a long time ago, it can't be relevant nowwwwww" whining I keep hearing cause I haven't seen anything that directly contradicts Sidious's superiority.

Sidious's superiority was a direct statement. I'd need something similar on the Vititate side, not a combination of ignoring pro-Sidious sources while toting pro-Vititate sources in era specific books that I keep seeing.

For Sidious not being able to beat a single opponent?

I was referring to Yoda.

I was referring to Yoda.

really? That's you issue? Well ok then...

I actually never read the RotS novelization but Beni, Aurbere, or anyone who did could tell you the outcome of that. All I know is what is in the movie, and that appears to be an unarmed, defeated Yoda fleeing at the end... It can't be disputed that at the end of that one Sidious was the clear victor even if he didn't kill Yoda.