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Premades are ruining your little expansion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Premades are ruining your little expansion

Eldrenath's Avatar


Eldrenath
01.02.2014 , 08:21 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Elly_Dawn View Post
i'm one of those people that despise PvP, and it's not because of being outmatched but because of the general bad attitude of most PvP players... really check my post history it's riddled with "i hate PvP" and the reasons why... but, on the flip-side GSF is the first PvP action i found that i enjoy, it's fun and i don't have to listen to screaming high-pitched 12 year olds trying to sound "mature" by dropping F-Bombs and insulting people constantly over a headset...
I am absolutely in the same boat as you, and I simply couldn't agree more. I never did PvP in this game prior to GSF. Literally never: I've never queued for a single warzone on a single toon in 2 years. When GSF came out, I had no intention of playing it at all. I tried it out just to see what it was like and got hooked (I think it's because the annoying "circle strafe and jump like an idiot" trope doesn't happen in GSF).

But to the topic at hand: yes, voice helps, a LOT. But the bigger problem is people chasing kills and not monitoring the objectives. It does not take voice comms to have super fast reaction. When one of your turrets gets blown up, you get a message. When someone is within "taking" range of one of your satellites, it blinks. If we're holding two satellites and I'm off dogfighting or putting pressure on the 3rd to keep them from pushing our 2 satellites, as SOON as I see a turret pop or a satellite flash I disengage and boost straight for the pressured satellite. Even if I have the enemy to 5% hull and am about to get a kill, if the choice is lose a satellite or lose a kill, I choose to lose the kill (well, unless it's a gunship that's blown me up several times already ).

It doesn't take voice comms to know that your satellite is under attacks. If the team watches the satellite indicators at the top of the screen and zealously guards them, voice comms are not strictly necessary. They definitely help in many situations and there's no doubt that they give an advantage. But if your team is composed of team players rather than people trying to rack up a high kill count then you have a much bigger possibility of winning. The problem isn't SOLELY premades, in MANY cases the problem is that half the team is off chasing 2 enemy scouts 15,000m from the nearest satellite while the enemy uses a huge numbers advantage to pummel the remaining defenders.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
01.02.2014 , 09:06 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Sharee View Post
When you have the same pool of 10 good players queueing on one side, and the same pool of 10 bad players queueing on the other, there isn't much a matchmaking can do to stop unbalanced matches save not start any matches at all...
This^^^
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

ptwonline's Avatar


ptwonline
01.02.2014 , 10:24 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Elly_Dawn View Post
i'm one of those people that despise PvP, and it's not because of being outmatched but because of the general bad attitude of most PvP players... really check my post history it's riddled with "i hate PvP" and the reasons why... but, on the flip-side GSF is the first PvP action i found that i enjoy, it's fun and i don't have to listen to screaming high-pitched 12 year olds trying to sound "mature" by dropping F-Bombs and insulting people constantly over a headset...
My experience--been playing MMO's since 1999 although not that many different games (AC, CoH, WoW, Rift, STO, SWTOR, GW, GW2) is that the bad attitude people have against PvP is because they feel like they are being exploited and have no chance, and it gets them frustrated and upset. Put them in an environent where they think they have more of a chance and they enjoy it a LOT more.

Players are not used to THAT much failure in MMOs. In Pvp On average you are going to fail 50% of the time. I thin kpeople can accept that. But when you have more skilled payers and premades, you could be faced with failing 90%+ of the time during certan time periods, and without even the satisfaction of something that feels like a partial victory. That people DO NOT accept.

For example, in WoW the smaller BGs like Warsong Gulch a lot of people dreaded and detested because they would get rolled by premades and feel they didn't have a chance. But a big open BG with lots of larger scale battles objectives against NPCs like Alterac Valley? MUCH more popular. Same with the PvP zones they introduced with bigger battles and less focus on actual PvP, like Wintergrasp.

Domination games like these are more like Warsong Gulch because it's mostly head-to-head combat and players will feel the sting of unequel skill, unequal gear/ships, and the effect of premades a lot more. That is why it is so crucial to get more maps that have more objectives that involve less direct player vs player fighting because it will mitigate what many players find so distasteful about PvP.

Watch: if they put i a map that is more about something like capital ship dismantling and capture and taking out guns and defenses instead of just fighter-to-fighter action, that will probably become a lot more popular.

Eldrenath's Avatar


Eldrenath
01.02.2014 , 10:34 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
Domination games like these are more like Warsong Gulch because it's mostly head-to-head combat and players will feel the sting of unequel skill, unequal gear/ships, and the effect of premades a lot more. That is why it is so crucial to get more maps that have more objectives that involve less direct player vs player fighting because it will mitigate what many players find so distasteful about PvP.

Watch: if they put i a map that is more about something like capital ship dismantling and capture and taking out guns and defenses instead of just fighter-to-fighter action, that will probably become a lot more popular.
Outstanding points, very well stated. I honestly had not thought about this at ALL but it makes good sense. Your example of "capital ship dismantling" is a great one--even if you get shot down but you managed to accomplish X or Y objective before doing so I think the average player will have more fun overall.

A perfect example of this is in close domination matches. If I lose 5 in a row by 100 points or less I'll be frustrated not to eke out a victory, but I'd be having a lot more fun--close matches can kind of nail-biting fun with the last minute pushes, back and forth of the score, etc. But lose 5 matches in a row by 500+ points and the attitude is much different indeed.

ptwonline's Avatar


ptwonline
01.02.2014 , 10:41 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Eldrenath View Post
Outstanding points, very well stated. I honestly had not thought about this at ALL but it makes good sense. Your example of "capital ship dismantling" is a great one--even if you get shot down but you managed to accomplish X or Y objective before doing so I think the average player will have more fun overall.

A perfect example of this is in close domination matches. If I lose 5 in a row by 100 points or less I'll be frustrated not to eke out a victory, but I'd be having a lot more fun--close matches can kind of nail-biting fun with the last minute pushes, back and forth of the score, etc. But lose 5 matches in a row by 500+ points and the attitude is much different indeed.
Losing by 500 is nothing. Vs the premades now I feel lucky if my side gets over 100 points total.

Last three matches I played yesterday my side got 100 points...in all three matches combined. The only reason we got that many is because in the last match I started using creative suicide to lure the premade group to another satellite (8v8. Kill 2-3 turrets in a few seconds with my gunship, kill myself as the 4-5 enemies get there in seconds to overwhelm it, let them feast on my three hopelessly outmatched teammates who went there in desperate hope of actually capping something, and then I could go to where they abandoned and cap it for at least a short time til they came back. This is the only way we could eke out any points.) We got a total of 10 kills in those three matches combined, and I had 6 of them myself.

Costello's Avatar


Costello
01.02.2014 , 11:56 AM | #66
The matches are so unbalanced it has become a really unpleasant experience. I don't know if its just pre-mades or just full geared ships against lower geared stuff but the SSSP was a waste of time and hype and having been all for a space addition if this is what Bioware do with it they shouldn't have bothered. I feel really sorry for any premiums or free to players who got dick all from 2.5 and will have the enjoyment of GSF to look forward to in the coming weeks month only to get ganked to death.

Lymain's Avatar


Lymain
01.02.2014 , 12:35 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Costello View Post
I don't know if its just pre-mades or just full geared ships against lower geared stuff
It's mainly just good players versus bad players.
Xeric - Juggernaut - The Ebon Hawk

Svarthrafn's Avatar


Svarthrafn
01.02.2014 , 12:43 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
My experience--been playing MMO's since 1999 although not that many different games (AC, CoH, WoW, Rift, STO, SWTOR, GW, GW2) is that the bad attitude people have against PvP is because they feel like they are being exploited and have no chance, and it gets them frustrated and upset.
I disagree. For most of the people I know that despise MMO PVP, it is because of the attitudes of the other players. We've all run into the guy with no life outside the game, who has the best gear, and can't resist the urge to talk about how awesome he is and how n00b you are (even though most of it is gear-based). Foul-mouthed, immature, desperate for attention because mommy was always working and daddy was never there.

I'm not surprised at all that people would rather deal with NPC's all day, when the players above are the alternative.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lymain View Post
It's mainly just good players versus bad players.
Absolutely not. Mediocre premades are even facerolling pugs made up of some very good players. Sometimes those players can turn it around, but the coordination advantage that players on a voice system have is tremendous.

Lymain's Avatar


Lymain
01.02.2014 , 01:09 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Svarthrafn View Post
Absolutely not. Mediocre premades are even facerolling pugs made up of some very good players. Sometimes those players can turn it around, but the coordination advantage that players on a voice system have is tremendous.
I've never even noticed a premade without good players...not sure how you do. Saberwing talks about running premades constantly on TEH, but the only one I ever even recognize are the ones with Hanak and Nailin...and even that group only really blows us out (like keeps us under 100) when we have a bad team /shrug
Xeric - Juggernaut - The Ebon Hawk

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
01.02.2014 , 01:28 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
Losing by 500 is nothing. Vs the premades now I feel lucky if my side gets over 100 points total.
Really? I pug most of my matches and duo with a firend of mine and I feel bad when the enemy gets more than 3 points on my team.

Some people can't tell the difference between faction balance, premades, or just plain bad luck with RNG group compositions.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.