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Would you stop with the stupid stealth aggro system?


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OK - it drove me up the wall when WoW did it, but well done, you've actually put in a WORSE system.

 

In WoW, the stealth aggro of mobs that could see through stealth was much farther than normal aggro.. this was annoying, but you could work around it by just making sure you hung back a little more from the mobs that had the blue eye icon.

 

So what do you do? Put a giant icon the screen that says 'HAHAHA DESTEALTH OR I'M GONNA AGGRO WHATEVERS IN FRONT OF YOU NO MATTTER HOW FAR AWAY YOU ARE!"

 

I had no idea this system was in place the first time I did a flashpoint and wiped my entire group 3 times before I figured it out - I had no idea noone else was seeing this random timer on their screen and couldn't figure out why the hell people kept pulling the boss. It wasn't them, it was me, standing behind the group in stealth.

 

Another time I alt tabbed out while stealthed waiting for a group member to come back to their keyboard before the boss fight. Came back in to find we were all dead. This is with me standing MILES away from the boss.

 

Considering I need to start fights in stealth this is REALLY annoying as I now need to have the tank tell me before they pull so I can enter stealth, or I can just not use stealth, ever. Considering I picked a stealth class, that is a stupid solution, especially as I always go into fights ahead of the tank so I can join the fight right away and not have to walk over at a reduced speed after they leap in.

 

But wait, that's not all! I'm fairly squishy as I play a stealth DPS class. This means I can't charge from mob to mob and crush them like other classes, but I can skip a lot of unneeded mobs when questing so it works out. Cool right? Wrong. Apparently someone decided that a Hoth quest needed a non stealth area. And if you wandered into this area like I always do for a look around before attacking anything, you'll not just aggro the mobs in front of you, you'll aggro half the room and die. Oh and don't think you can res there.. oh no... cause when you do, your companion will immedately attack again, breaking your recovery timer and making you die again.

 

Why the hell is this system even in place? Is it to stop stealth groups from getting past bosses or something? Put up doors! Or just don't care!

 

But for the love of god would you PLEASE let me stand in stealth before bosses? And take it out of quest areas all together. I rolled stealth to be sneaky, stop preventing it where it really isn't needed.

 

Normally my suggestions are less ranting, but I now have a huge repair bill thanks to repeated deaths trying to get out of that quest area so I'm rather pissed.

 

EDIT: And yay, I get to wait another 2 minutes for a res. I thought the stealth aggro was just active in the rooms with quest items.. nope, there's one in a random corrider with 2 strong mobs who just killed me.

 

Yep, died. Ressed and immediately got the aggro timer on my screen while being ressed by the probe droid. Now my res timer is on 10 minutes.

Edited by Sparcrypt
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OK - it drove me up the wall when WoW did it, but well done, you've actually put in a WORSE system.

 

In WoW, the stealth aggro of mobs that could see through stealth was much farther than normal aggro.. this was annoying, but you could work around it by just making sure you hung back a little more from the mobs that had the blue eye icon.

 

So what do you do? Put a giant icon the screen that says 'HAHAHA DESTEALTH OR I'M GONNA AGGRO WHATEVERS IN FRONT OF YOU NO MATTTER HOW FAR AWAY YOU ARE!"

 

I had no idea this system was in place the first time I did a flashpoint and wiped my entire group 3 times before I figured it out - I had no idea noone else was seeing this random timer on their screen and couldn't figure out why the hell people kept pulling the boss. It wasn't them, it was me, standing behind the group in stealth.

 

Another time I alt tabbed out while stealthed waiting for a group member to come back to their keyboard before the boss fight. Came back in to find we were all dead. This is with me standing MILES away from the boss.

 

Considering I need to start fights in stealth this is REALLY annoying as I now need to have the tank tell me before they pull so I can enter stealth, or I can just not use stealth, ever. Considering I picked a stealth class, that is a stupid solution, especially as I always go into fights ahead of the tank so I can join the fight right away and not have to walk over at a reduced speed after they leap in.

 

But wait, that's not all! I'm fairly squishy as I play a stealth DPS class. This means I can't charge from mob to mob and crush them like other classes, but I can skip a lot of unneeded mobs when questing so it works out. Cool right? Wrong. Apparently someone decided that a Hoth quest needed a non stealth area. And if you wandered into this area like I always do for a look around before attacking anything, you'll not just aggro the mobs in front of you, you'll aggro half the room and die. Oh and don't think you can res there.. oh no... cause when you do, your companion will immedately attack again, breaking your recovery timer and making you die again.

 

Why the hell is this system even in place? Is it to stop stealth groups from getting past bosses or something? Put up doors! Or just don't care!

 

But for the love of god would you PLEASE let me stand in stealth before bosses? And take it out of quest areas all together. I rolled stealth to be sneaky, stop preventing it where it really isn't needed.

 

Normally my suggestions are less ranting, but I now have a huge repair bill thanks to repeated deaths trying to get out of that quest area so I'm rather pissed.

 

EDIT: And yay, I get to wait another 2 minutes for a res. I thought the stealth aggro was just active in the rooms with quest items.. nope, there's one in a random corridor with 2 strong mobs who just killed me.

 

Yep, died. Ressed and immediately got the aggro timer on my screen while being ressed by the probe droid. Now my res timer is on 10 minutes.

 

 

I support this post. As a fellow stealther, it burns my butt because I cannot play the game the way the first 50 levels taught me to. All of a sudden because I am level 50, I have to learn to do it a different way!

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Flashpoint/raid bosses are the only thing that auto-aggro if you get too close to them in stealth. And even those, popping blackout will usually buy you enough time to get close before getting ripped from stealth.

 

Either way, as a deception sin/infiltration shadow, you should never, ever be the first person to approach a boss. Let the tank go, then follow him in.

 

I hate to be that guy, but this really does sound like a Learn-to-Play issue to me.

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Flashpoint/raid bosses are the only thing that auto-aggro if you get too close to them in stealth. And even those, popping blackout will usually buy you enough time to get close before getting ripped from stealth.

 

Either way, as a deception sin/infiltration shadow, you should never, ever be the first person to approach a boss. Let the tank go, then follow him in.

 

I hate to be that guy, but this really does sound like a Learn-to-Play issue to me.

 

It's no problem since you meant that constructively.

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Just want to add, that this is also the case in some end-game missions, such as 'First Strike' on Ilum for Empire. if you by some miracle have stealthed though the massive amount of mobs and gotten to the door at the end of the player instance, and decide you are going to cc one of them and kill the 2 others + Patrol that usually comes(seing as they are all healing eachother).

 

Pop, Stealth de-activates and if you die(like I did) you're screwed. You Obviously want to press Release by medical Drone, so you spawn where you die.. But no, that is not possible because they know you're there and break ressurection Stealth and start attacking you while you're still stunned from ressing up, and at ~20% hp.

 

I reported this as a bug, and I gave suggestions as to how it can be solved, I hope the lot of you report these as a bug, because it's freaking annoying.

 

only took me 3 attempts to Spawn/die to get further away from them to be able to spawn, buff up and attack them while not in stealth on my Operative.

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Wow I wasn't even aware this existed. And I was all gung-ho about my Shadow tank too. Figured as a stealth tank I could easily position myself somewhere advantageous, where I could pull more threat from the mob.

 

But this has to be a bug. Has to be. Why would they give us stealth tanks and then do this? Why would this happen at all? What's so wrong with simply walking behind a boss to set up for a quick Backstab? I'm all for challenges, but this is a straight FU gimp.

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Just use line of sight and it won't be a problem. The debuff only applies if they have direct line of sight to you. I learned most spots where I can stealth-engage bosses on my operative a long time ago.

 

 

The only thing that bugs me is that they can de-stealth you after the group engaged. I do think the destealth buff should not be applied if the boss is already busy pounding the tank's face in.

 

 

Wow I wasn't even aware this existed. And I was all gung-ho about my Shadow tank too. Figured as a stealth tank I could easily position myself somewhere advantageous, where I could pull more threat from the mob.

 

But this has to be a bug. Has to be. Why would they give us stealth tanks and then do this? Why would this happen at all? What's so wrong with simply walking behind a boss to set up for a quick Backstab? I'm all for challenges, but this is a straight FU gimp.

 

L2ForceSpeed. You can force speed behind the boss WAY before they destealth you. Hell in BP, on the second boss, you can cc one of the jedi chicks and sprint back and unstealth out of aggro range before the boss pulls. Learn to use your class skills in combination...

Edited by Nessirin
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L2ForceSpeed. You can force speed behind the boss WAY before they destealth you. Hell in BP, on the second boss, you can cc one of the jedi chicks and sprint back and unstealth out of aggro range before the boss pulls. Learn to use your class skills in combination...

 

Shouldn't have to. I roll stealth classes for the stealth part. Again, why gimp stealth classes on a PvE boss? Maybe on a console game when I'm the only character playing it works, but not when you've got seven other people with you who just horribly died because you had no way of knowing this mechanic existed.

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it was extremely startling and and aggravting when i first encountered it on the ilum planet arc, and i wish there were a buff i could see, and maybe a little more warning than the target lock.

 

i understand your pain in not being able to tell if a mob sees you or not. in eq1 and eq2 when stealthed or invs the mob turns from red to yellow?( think it is yellow). that way you can tell what sees you or not and if a see invs mob is in the room. this worked out real well for us. soe would put see invs mobs in rooms that disallowed passing content. not too many other games out there had this mechanic. sadly it really spoiled me.

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Flashpoint/raid bosses are the only thing that auto-aggro if you get too close to them in stealth. And even those, popping blackout will usually buy you enough time to get close before getting ripped from stealth.

 

Either way, as a deception sin/infiltration shadow, you should never, ever be the first person to approach a boss. Let the tank go, then follow him in.

 

I hate to be that guy, but this really does sound like a Learn-to-Play issue to me.

 

I hate to be that guy, but this seems like a Learn-to-Read issue to me.

 

I realise my post was a bit of a rant - I was extrememly annoyed. But the reason I was annoyed was because this stupid stealth aggro timer showed up in a single player quest phase, killed me, then saw through the 'stealth' you get when you're ressed by a droid and immediately killed me again.

 

If you want to tell someone to learn to play, read their post so you don't end up looking stupid. And seeing as you're telling me I should 'never be the first person heading to a boss' perhaps you yourself need to learn to play? A few things you might want to note:

 

1) The aggro range of the stealth detect is MUCH farther than the normal aggro. As in, standing with your party waiting to begin can and will trigger it. I have tested and confirmed this myself by destealthing with the icon on my screen and had it dissapear without aggroing the boss from the same spot destealthed.

 

2. If you're a stealth player, you're a bad one. Stealthers move slower than the rest of the party, by moving in before the tank, you can time it so that as he does his leap/pull of the boss you are in position and ready to start dealing damage. I have done this on stealth characters in every MMO I've ever played and as someone who is regarded as extremely good by my fellow raiders (whos opinion of my ability to play far outranks yours), I don't see a reason to change this. It's a small thing yes, but if you've ever been in a progression kill and wiped with the boss on less than 1% health, you start to appreciate the smaller things that help your class.

 

As well as that, you may have noticed I pointed out the stupidity of having this function WITHOUT telling the player. Like I said, I wiped my group 3 times before we realised I was getting this strange thing on my screen and noone else was. It's fine if you already know about it but noone in my group did so I had to figure it out on my own.

 

You can say 'L2Play'... well, that is what I did. I learned how the function worked. I also gave 3 other people and myself repair bills doing so. A message in that giant red text they love so much with some kinda of message letting you know that you were being detected wouldn't be hard to add - you could even let people turn it off if they want.

 

I'm a new player to SWTOR and I'm all for contructive critisism as it will help me improve - for instance someone has pointed out that you can use LoS to prevent this function. This is something I fully intend to explore and work out.

 

But either way, it doesn't change the fact that this mechanic is awful.

Edited by Sparcrypt
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Either way, as a deception sin/infiltration shadow, you should never, ever be the first person to approach a boss. Let the tank go, then follow him in.

 

I hate to be that guy, but this really does sound like a Learn-to-Play issue to me.

 

Whats the point of stealth then?

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Annoying. I had that rez- and get attacked while stealth- rez happen to me a few times.

If they do this so you don't stealth past bosses to get to the end boss, they should just not activate the end boss unless all previous bosses are killed. This see thru ALL stealth is just cheap. when you get the red mark on you while stealthed, it means you are most likely going to eat it.

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Hmm, I stealthed through the end of the Ilum "First Strike" no problem.

 

Sure, some parts were a challenge, but I soloed it and completed.

 

Maybe the concept of not having things handed to you in easy mode is a foreign concept to people?

 

Then again, I look at stealth on my assassin as a game mechanic and make sure I either stay out of sight or combine force run with blackout to get past mobs I normally wouldn't be able to sneak past without detection.

 

L2P might indeed be relevant here.

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Shouldn't have to. I roll stealth classes for the stealth part. Again, why gimp stealth classes on a PvE boss? Maybe on a console game when I'm the only character playing it works, but not when you've got seven other people with you who just horribly died because you had no way of knowing this mechanic existed.

 

So, you shouldn't have to use skills granted in your own profession in order to maximize your stealth ability?

 

What kind of nonsense is that? That would be like playing Street Fighter and insisting you shouldn't have to know more than one special move for your character in order to maximize your character's potential use...

 

Wow, just wow. The self-entitlement of some folks amazes me.

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Been playing an assassin since the first day of early access, and I've killed every boss on Nightmare. I've never had these problems that you're ranting about.

 

The system in place to let me know I was about to pull someone was not that difficult for me to figure out, in fact I found it pretty intuitive. An icon pops up on your head and the NPC that sees you turns in your direction and points at you. It happened to me once on BT and I was able to spot it and back off.

 

If you're complaining about repair bills for your group, give me a break, If you hadn't figured it out by the time repair bills are actually expensive (full broken end game gear) then you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

Just because you can't use stealth in the exact way that you want to doesn't mean it's worthless.

 

The bug where you res and are spotted during "super stealth" is a bug, please place that complaint in the proper forum.

 

TLDR: Stop crying.

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So, you shouldn't have to use skills granted in your own profession in order to maximize your stealth ability?

 

What kind of nonsense is that? That would be like playing Street Fighter and insisting you shouldn't have to know more than one special move for your character in order to maximize your character's potential use...

 

Wow, just wow. The self-entitlement of some folks amazes me.

 

This.

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I realise my post was a bit of a rant - I was extrememly annoyed. But the reason I was annoyed was because this stupid stealth aggro timer showed up in a single player quest phase, killed me, then saw through the 'stealth' you get when you're ressed by a droid and immediately killed me again.

As has been stated, that is a bug.

 

If you want to tell someone to learn to play, read their post so you don't end up looking stupid. And seeing as you're telling me I should 'never be the first person heading to a boss' perhaps you yourself need to learn to play? A few things you might want to note:

 

1) The aggro range of the stealth detect is MUCH farther than the normal aggro. As in, standing with your party waiting to begin can and will trigger it. I have tested and confirmed this myself by destealthing with the icon on my screen and had it dissapear without aggroing the boss from the same spot destealthed.

 

2. If you're a stealth player, you're a bad one. Stealthers move slower than the rest of the party, by moving in before the tank, you can time it so that as he does his leap/pull of the boss you are in position and ready to start dealing damage. I have done this on stealth characters in every MMO I've ever played and as someone who is regarded as extremely good by my fellow raiders (whos opinion of my ability to play far outranks yours), I don't see a reason to change this. It's a small thing yes, but if you've ever been in a progression kill and wiped with the boss on less than 1% health, you start to appreciate the smaller things that help your class.

Force Run can be used to time your approach and compensate for your slower move speed in stealth. As well, a second or two of delay gives your tank a second or two to build threat. Oh, and SW:TOR isn't 'every MMO', it's SW:TOR. Some things are going to be different than you're used to.

 

As well as that, you may have noticed I pointed out the stupidity of having this function WITHOUT telling the player. Like I said, I wiped my group 3 times before we realised I was getting this strange thing on my screen and noone else was. It's fine if you already know about it but noone in my group did so I had to figure it out on my own.

I believe that is the very definition of a Learn-2-Play issue.

 

You can say 'L2Play'... well, that is what I did. I learned how the function worked. I also gave 3 other people and myself repair bills doing so. A message in that giant red text they love so much with some kinda of message letting you know that you were being detected wouldn't be hard to add - you could even let people turn it off if they want.

Because the big red warning icon, and the boss's animation showing him peering intently at you weren't obvious enough that something was up?

 

I'm a new player to SWTOR and I'm all for contructive critisism as it will help me improve - for instance someone has pointed out that you can use LoS to prevent this function. This is something I fully intend to explore and work out.

 

But either way, it doesn't change the fact that this mechanic is awful.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. It's also relatively easy to compensate for.

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