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BW Please consider this change for Scoundrel


Keyran-Halcyon

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So I was going to write a wall of text, but I know nobody reads everything and I highly doubt BW will even respond to this post, but here goes a shot in the dark.

 

Scrapper seems to be still lacking in some burst, but honestly I am ok with that, what we need is something to finish out our rotation. Our sustained is lacking and as a result we cannot help our team as much after we open from stealth. My suggestion is honestly super easy and wouldn't really require much changing of the class. We need a finisher move that can only be used on targets below 30% health. This would give us something that doesn't leave us still starved for upper hands, doesn't give us much front end burst, but finishes off our back end burst. Now here is the really easy thing, we already have a good ability that could easily become our finisher move, are you ready Bioware???

 

Cheap shot... All that is needed is to switch the "only usable on incapacitated targets" to "only usable on targets at or below 30% health". It would also need a CD time equal to that of other finisher moves, so I think maybe 12 seconds.

 

As far as I can tell, this wouldn't make us OP or anything, it would just give us something to finish off our rotation and not leave us waiting to get another upper hand.

 

Any thoughts from fellow Scoundrels???

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Yea, I actually think this would be pretty balanced, considering every other melee class (excluding Vanguard) and even Sniper/Gunslinger have an 'Execution' move that can be used on targets 30% or below. However, it should be implemented as a Scoundrel Specific bonus, similar to how when we learn Dodge for the entire Smuggler class, Scoundrels can learn Lucky Dodge. It'd work something like this:

'Brass Knuckle': Cheap Shot can now be used on Players and targets below 30% health, cooldown reduced to twelve seconds.

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Yea, I actually think this would be pretty balanced, considering every other melee class (excluding Vanguard) and even Sniper/Gunslinger have an 'Execution' move that can be used on targets 30% or below. However, it should be implemented as a Scoundrel Specific bonus, similar to how when we learn Dodge for the entire Smuggler class, Scoundrels can learn Lucky Dodge. It'd work something like this:

'Brass Knuckle': Cheap Shot can now be used on Players and targets below 30% health, cooldown reduced to twelve seconds.

 

That would work and help keep from adding another ability to gunslingers which are pretty balanced at the moment. I really hope BW starts paying attention. I am hoping that if this post can get enough responses and attention from the player base that BW might actually consider doing this. I mean it honestly can't be that difficult a change.

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I don't think it's a bad idea. Not having an execute is really frustrating, especially when you have burst monsters like smashers with it. There's an argument that your everyday hard-hitting abilities are equivalents, but I'm not sure that holds when scrappers' big-hitters (Shoot First, Back Blast) have so many limitations, and most other classes already have executes.

 

For PR purposes though, make it a new ability gained by scrappers/ops between levels 51-55 in the expansion (a new level 55 or talent treetop ability? Don't change an existing PvE-only ability. Reason being that all classes have these, and if you make a smuggler one work in PvP too, you'll have every class whining that it's not fair and their uberpwn PvE-only ability should be PvP too. Then God help us if the devs actually listened to that.

Edited by Wainamoinen
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I don't think it's a bad idea. Not having an execute is really frustrating, especially when you have burst monsters like smashers with it. There's an argument that your everyday hard-hitting abilities are equivalents, but I'm not sure that holds when scrappers' big-hitters (Shoot First, Back Blast) have so many limitations, and most other classes already have executes.

 

For PR purposes though, make it a new ability gained by scrappers/ops between levels 51-55 in the expansion (a new level 55 or talent treetop ability? Don't change an existing PvE-only ability. Reason being that all classes have these, and if you make a smuggler one work in PvP too, you'll have every class whining that it's not fair and their uberpwn PvE-only ability should be PvP too. Then God help us if the devs actually listened to that.

 

See I don't want to get a finisher as our "New expansion" ability. WE SHOULD ALREADY HAVE ONE. So to me its unfair that pretty much all other classes get a finisher move and we don't. Then they get their new ability and we finally get our finisher. Then we are still behind the other classes.

 

The reason I picked "Cheap Shot" as the ability that should be changed to our finisher, is because we actually have two of these PvE ability. Head Shot and Cheap shot are basically the same thing just a difference in Range I believe. They share the same CD. So if Cheap shot were to be changed into our finisher move, we would still have one PvE ability to use on Incapacitated NPC's. So Cheap Shot is if I remember correctly a melee attack, so it would still require us to be in melee range, just like sucker punch and blaster whip, and for the PvE'rs they still keep their Head shot.

 

For any classes that would argue that they should get their PvE ability changed, well we can easily point out that we still have our PvE ability, we just gained our finisher to match that of other classes. So it should stop most smart people from arguing. Granted 75% of the forums seem to be dominated with idiots. And I can easily see BW giving in to their demands. That's what makes me so mad is the Scoundrel/operative community isn't nearly as vocal. Its probably because in the beginning we were and all we got was hate threads and Nerf threads that I feel like the majority of us went into forum hiding...

 

All I can Say is I really hope Bioware revives this class, at least the DPS side. I still see plenty of Sawbones healers running around, but the Scrapper's are few and far between.

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Well that would just make way too much sense!

 

In all seriousness, yes, this should happen, and should have happened a long time ago. The fact that Shadows have one and we don't is silly.

 

troopers don't have one either, and i'm not 100% positive that sages get one

 

 

i completely agree: it's silly though. dispatch phases are very important, and some classes just don't really contribute as much as others sadly

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troopers don't have one either, and i'm not 100% positive that sages get one

 

 

i completely agree: it's silly though. dispatch phases are very important, and some classes just don't really contribute as much as others sadly

 

Not every class gets a finisher and honestly not all classes should. Sages are more dot focused and a finisher move wouldn't make sense. And in all honesty only scrapper/concealment spec should get the finisher since the dirty fighting/lethality specs are also dot focused. I thought Vanguards had some sort of finisher, but I am not sure on commandos.

 

But if you look at a stealth class in general, across all mmo's, they pretty much have a standard of big opening moves and big finishers. Sadly too many players don't seem to understand the concept of true class balance to understand that a stealth class is a glass cannon, we should be the hardest hitting class but also have the weakest defenses. We sure have the weakest defense, but we lost are hard hitting status. To many new comers to mmo's think that their heavy armored warrior tank type classes should also be the ones that hit the hardest. Hence why for the past 10 months almost, the "Smash" spec classes have been at the top.

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I thought Vanguards had some sort of finisher, but I am not sure on commandos.

 

Will confirm that Commandos don't have one - but I'm not sure it'd feel organic to Gunnery Spec. They have fairly high burst DPS, their problem is that you have to be left alone to execute it..

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This is actually a great idea, I came back to playing my scoundrel after a long break and I definitely agree that they need SOMETHING to help with their rotation, and this isn't too overpowered or even game breaking, Definitely would support this.
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This is actually a great idea, I came back to playing my scoundrel after a long break and I definitely agree that they need SOMETHING to help with their rotation, and this isn't too overpowered or even game breaking, Definitely would support this.

 

I am glad to get feedback from other scoundrels. I really think we as a group need to start being more vocal about getting this class fixed/rebalanced. Our healing tree is awesome and I love it, but I hate to see how Scrappers get treated like red headed step children.

 

So again if you like this idea or have one of your own, please post and maybe if we get enough player attention, BW will start to notice.

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Not every class gets a finisher and honestly not all classes should.

 

ok this is where you lost me.

 

 

 

i neglected to mention in my previous post that i can drop Disappearing Act, flechette, shoot first, and basically restart my initial burst rotation during a dispatch phase of a boss, pumping out everything i can before it goes down and i can push like 3-4k DPS at times (during the dispatch phase only of course), and i know that i'm doing that much because DA drops me out of combat and it shows up as a completely separate attempt when i upload it to askmrrobot or something.

 

in spite of that, i still like your idea of having a finisher for scoundrels, because i although i can push a lot in dispatch phases, i need to hope that DA is off CD for me to be able to really do that.

but saying scoundrels need a finisher and at the same time other classes don't is a bit silly to me.

 

 

 

i especially don't see why DoT specs are especially unworthy of having finishers, which is kind of ironic though, since a lot of DoT specs do get +x% damage of DoTs on targets under 30% health, which is the only pseudo-finisher most classes get at all, whereas something like a dirty fighting gunslingers get Cold Blooded and Quickdraw, and one of the possible new abilities for gunslingers in RotHC is a % chance for DoTs to allow Quickdraw use on targets regardless of % of max health.

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ok this is where you lost me.

 

 

 

i neglected to mention in my previous post that i can drop Disappearing Act, flechette, shoot first, and basically restart my initial burst rotation during a dispatch phase of a boss, pumping out everything i can before it goes down and i can push like 3-4k DPS at times (during the dispatch phase only of course), and i know that i'm doing that much because DA drops me out of combat and it shows up as a completely separate attempt when i upload it to askmrrobot or something.

 

in spite of that, i still like your idea of having a finisher for scoundrels, because i although i can push a lot in dispatch phases, i need to hope that DA is off CD for me to be able to really do that.

but saying scoundrels need a finisher and at the same time other classes don't is a bit silly to me.

 

 

 

i especially don't see why DoT specs are especially unworthy of having finishers, which is kind of ironic though, since a lot of DoT specs do get +x% damage of DoTs on targets under 30% health, which is the only pseudo-finisher most classes get at all, whereas something like a dirty fighting gunslingers get Cold Blooded and Quickdraw, and one of the possible new abilities for gunslingers in RotHC is a % chance for DoTs to allow Quickdraw use on targets regardless of % of max health.

 

I agree that statement of mine wasn't well thought out, I sometimes have a hard time getting my thoughts into cohesive statements that can then be typed out. I am not saying that Dot specs are unworthy of a finisher. I am merely trying to fight to get Scrappers back into the game and more on par with other classes. Traditionally stealth classes are known for their big openers and big finishers, and their weak defenses. Currently Scrapper has two out of those three, we have the big openers and the weak defenses, but we are lacking our finisher.

 

I am just really tired of feeling like I am not bringing as much to fights as I could. I really feel like a finisher is what Scrapper is missing. I am just getting frustrated feeling like this class/spec is completely ignored by the Devs. Almost all the players I know that really wanted a stealth class have rerolled to Shadows because that class delivers a better "stealthy" feel. I am stubborn and love my smuggler. I played smuggler on SWG till that game was shut down, but it seems like this game and the devs just favor the glowstick classes over the rest.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sucker punch be replaced by something with same effects but as a shot that uses gun. My feeling of scoundrel is that it greatly lacks INTERESTING gun abilities that have good sound effect as well.

 

I dont see a point having gun and getting abilities like sucker punch from talents, i mean cant gun wielder stay tanged please. Blaster whip and dirty kick are allready nice enough finishers altho they dont work seemlessly together.

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