Honestly, I can see the justification for her leaving being wrong. Once again, the harm principle comes into play. If her leaving does more harm to others than her remaining, then yeah it would be 'wrong'.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that quest is trying to highlight a social issue, however, so logic isn't exactly at the core of it.

How would her leaving him harm others really?

But that's precisely the OPPOSITE of what's going on.

 

 

The military, the rightful owners of the medicine need it just as much as the THIEVES who stole it. When you complete the quest, they thank you on behalf of the soldiers whose lives were on the line.

 

Sure the refugees need it too, but there is no option to split the medicine, only give it back to those who need it and own it or those who need it and stole it.

The military can requisition new medicine.

AND the soldiers were active participants in the war, the refugees are innocent bystanders.

I don't remember EXACTLY what they say, but IIRC no soldiers die if you give the medicine to the refugees.

Impressions from a newb...

My first character, a Sith Inquisitor, chose the Dark Path. Briliant, and no matter, the Dark Path, 'right' or 'wrong', it feels ok, taken into consideration that the SI is propably planning and schemeing ahead of her self, like in a game of chess. In the moment the awkardness of choosing Dark instead of Light, turns out, in the end it makes sense.

Then I started a Chiss Imperial Sniper-Agent, Light Sided. It is all of the sudden more challenging defending her actions taken. She might be a loyal servant to the Empire, but juggling her independency and kindness, to be able to outplay both Siths and Imperial rigidness alike, and still stay in the game withouth being taken outside and executed in a ditch... ...Yes, it is challenging indeed. She does not like Sith, she does not like the Republic hippie traitors, she wants a career of cloak and skullduggery.

I fear she'll end up hated and hunted by all factions in the end. Sith, Empire, Republic, Hutts and whatnot. Poor Chiss girl.

What about the guy who turns into a rakghoul in kaon flashpoint? For empire the darkside choice is watch him change first and then fight him and light is to just shoot him which makes sense, but then for republic it's the opposite

The "good" guys for the Republic don't do mercy killing, that's all.

The military can requisition new medicine.

AND the soldiers were active participants in the war, the refugees are innocent bystanders.

 

I don't remember EXACTLY what they say, but IIRC no soldiers die if you give the medicine to the refugees.

So basically the military should just tell their soldiers to bleed slowly while they wait for the requisition to be processed, the medicine to be gathered (if there is any to be had) and shipped (assuming the Empire does not cause problems in transport) and then finally have it reach them?

Thing is most people who need medicine (during a war) need it right now rather then wait a few days/weeks.

The "good" guys for the Republic don't do mercy killing, that's all.

yeah, but they end up killing him anyway when he attacks

But that's precisely the OPPOSITE of what's going on.

 

 

The military, the rightful owners of the medicine need it just as much as the THIEVES who stole it. When you complete the quest, they thank you on behalf of the soldiers whose lives were on the line.

 

Sure the refugees need it too, but there is no option to split the medicine, only give it back to those who need it and own it or those who need it and stole it.

The one that gets me is the quest on courasant where you get the chance to expose a senator who is trying to sell out the republic to the empire, but you actually get LS points for protecting the senator (essentially letting him carry on trying to get in bed with the enemy) and DS points for telling everyone what he is up to.

IIRC the Senator is actually working openly, within the democratic process. He's about to propose an alliance with the Sith for whatever reasons, not stage a coup to overthrow the Senate and then make an alliance. Besides you're being asked to steal government documents by a random stranger - do you have any idea what those papers really are and what she'll do with them?

It's a pretty confusing quest in any case, there I agree.

The one that gets me is the quest on courasant where you get the chance to expose a senator who is trying to sell out the republic to the empire, but you actually get LS points for protecting the senator (essentially letting him carry on trying to get in bed with the enemy) and DS points for telling everyone what he is up to.

So long as the senator is doing things legally and openly, they have the right to free speech. It's the same as some religious extremist factions being elected into to office. Everyone has the right to express their ideals and work towards achieving them, peacefully.

The one that gets me is the quest on courasant where you get the chance to expose a senator who is trying to sell out the republic to the empire, but you actually get LS points for protecting the senator (essentially letting him carry on trying to get in bed with the enemy) and DS points for telling everyone what he is up to.

The only way to defeat a bad idea is with a better one. Underhanded tactics serve only to entrentch people in their beliefs.

So long as the senator is doing things legally and openly, they have the right to free speech. It's the same as some religious extremist factions being elected into to office. Everyone has the right to express their ideals and work towards achieving them, peacefully.

That's the problem, though. He isn't doing things in the open. Spirakriss hires you to steal the diplomatic parcel precisely so her "True Republic" can expose what the Senator is up to. You're basically getting DS points for being a whistle blower.

For that moon bit else where in the game in the JC you crash a ship into a moon and it causes problems for the planet. I think a ship and a barrage of high yield missiles would affect a moon in at least a similar way. Or having chunks of the moon blow off and even crash into the planet. There are many ways in which that barrage of missiles could affect the moon and the planet as a result.

 

So both choices are dark sided in a regard, just one for quick loss of life, other is for later loss of life or loss of a planet.

I don't know what kind of explosives you've got knowledge of that nobody else does, but no missiles houses there could have blown off large chunks of the moon large enough to get through the atmosphere to do any damage. Even if they did, those chunks wouldn't be shot out of orbit and toward the planet, at the most they would orbit the planet or the moon itself.

That's the problem, though. He isn't doing things in the open. Spirakriss hires you to steal the diplomatic parcel precisely so her "True Republic" can expose what the Senator is up to. You're basically getting DS points for being a whistle blower.

Not exactly. He is going through the diplomatic process, not doing sneaky business. These bills or whatever he is trying to pass has no chance when it gets voted on, and is not a thread to the security of the Jedi and the Republic. Plus, you're stealing government documents for a person who says she's going to use them to "expose" this guy for what he is, but you don't know her. I skip this quest, though. I don't want it to be part of my story. It's just too vague.

When it comes to playing trooper i usually am DS, mostly cause i choose to follow orders and further the republics war efforts. Most of these choices are DS, even if they are deemed the right thing to do.

Yeah that one is stupid in my view. I ran with a Trooper ages back and getting DS points for maintaining confidentiality is... whack.

If anything you should be getting DS points for breaching that confidentiality. In other situations, I think there was one about infected people trapped behind a door and they order you to gas them... Iirc saving them is the light-option and following orders is the dark option, I can get behind that in some ways but if I remember rightly, you don't have anything to go off but their word that they're unharmed/uninfected whatever it was and the safest option was to follow orders... Seems daft getting penalised for it.

Then again, I don't see why a Trooper would need to be worried about LS/DS points, maybe that's the entire point of the system for them, to show they're not Jedi, they're not bound by the code of light/dark, they do the dirty work, end of?

Yeah that one is stupid in my view. I ran with a Trooper ages back and getting DS points for maintaining confidentiality is... whack.

 

If anything you should be getting DS points for breaching that confidentiality. In other situations, I think there was one about infected people trapped behind a door and they order you to gas them... Iirc saving them is the light-option and following orders is the dark option, I can get behind that in some ways but if I remember rightly, you don't have anything to go off but their word that they're unharmed/uninfected whatever it was and the safest option was to follow orders... Seems daft getting penalised for it.

 

Then again, I don't see why a Trooper would need to be worried about LS/DS points, maybe that's the entire point of the system for them, to show they're not Jedi, they're not bound by the code of light/dark, they do the dirty work, end of?

Well it is usally more aceppted in most societies to put possibly infected/contaminated people under some sort of quarantine insted of just killing them without even confirming if they are actually sick in the first place. Gassing them does seem like a rather heartless/dark choice to me.

Just because something is the safest option doesn't always mean that it is a "good" or "light" one.

In conclusion the dark choices in SWTOR usually are "the end justifies the means" scenarios, where you often sacrifice others to furhter your factions or your own goals (for example the mentioned gassing trapped people in order to minimize the risk of an infection spreading and harming more of your people), while the light options basically revolve around (sometimes naive) idealistic actions and self-sacrifice.

This system pretty much stays consisten during the entire game.

Actually, I just went through that quest again, and...

...if you pay attention to what the Cathar refugee woman told you, the Republic soldier you spoke to about the medicines IS THE GUARD WHO FELL ASLEEP WHILE WATCHING THE MEDS IN THE FIRST PLACE. There are no Republic troopers in dire need of the stolen meds, he's getting you to recover it to cover his own ***.

That doesn't justify returning your own military's property to a thief. There is no justification for giving a thief medicine over its rightful owner. It is absurd to suggest we should believe the word of the thief over a fellow soldier.

They should reverse the alignment choices or at a minimum they should remove all alignment choices from that quest.

That doesn't justify returning your own military's property to a thief. There is no justification for giving a thief medicine over its rightful owner. It is absurd to suggest we should believe the word of the thief over a fellow soldier.

 

They should reverse the alignment choices or at a minimum they should remove all alignment choices from that quest.

Except the military on Ord Mantell is as corrupt as it gets. The high ranking officiers blackmail their subordinates, it is mentioned multiple time that without a lot of bribe money the soldiers don't do anything, people get beaten up regularely for minor reasons and lets not forget that some of those military people get a thrill out of seeing refugees blow up in a minefield. Not to metinon that some of them are even traitors (Havoc squad).

So I ask you: Why should we believe any word out of the mouth of said fellow soldier? He is probably as unreliable as the thief.

Except the military on Ord Mantell is as corrupt as it gets. The high ranking officiers blackmail their subordinates, it is mentioned multiple time that without a lot of bribe money the soldiers don't do anything, people get beaten up regularely for minor reasons and lets not forget that some of those military people get a thrill out of seeing refugees blow up in a minefield. Not to metinon that some of them are even traitors (Havoc squad).

So I ask you: Why should we believe any word out of the mouth of said fellow soldier? He is probably as unreliable as the thief.

Because it is the military's medicine. That's in an undeniable fact. The thief stole it. That too is undeniable. The thief has already shown she is to be distrusted. As for the military being corrupt, not all of them are. Jorgan wasn't. That private who asked for your help with his lieutenant wasn't. The officer who you reported that sick game with refugees wasn't. There is no reason NOT to believe your own people.

But then, that's wholly irrelevant. The medicine does not belong to the thief. She has no right to it. The refugees have no right to it. It sucks that they need medicine, but it's not right for you to steal on their behalf. That the game makes this the "light-side" option is awful.

Because it is the military's medicine. That's in an undeniable fact. The thief stole it. That too is undeniable. The thief has already shown she is to be distrusted. As for the military being corrupt, not all of them are. Jorgan wasn't. That private who asked for your help with his lieutenant wasn't. The officer who you reported that sick game with refugees wasn't. There is no reason NOT to believe your own people.

 

But then, that's wholly irrelevant. The medicine does not belong to the thief. She has no right to it. The refugees have no right to it. It sucks that they need medicine, but it's not right for you to steal on their behalf. That the game makes this the "light-side" option is awful.

The ethics officier didn't seem very trustworthy to me. You report to him that his subordinates blow up refugees for fun and basically all he does is say: "What they haven't stopped doing that after I already told them to stop it? Okay. I'll tell them to stop again." Seriously those guys should have been relieved of duty the first time if you ask me. And there IS reaon not believe your own people right away if they are continually involed in abhorrent things.

Also are you saying that stealing is always bad and a thief can never be in the right? Because if you do, then its a opinion that I do not share. Sometimes it can be justified. The example we are discussing now might not be the best and I agree that you shouldn't get any alingment points at all for returning it to the military but neither do I think it is inheritly wrong to award lightside points to you if you help the refugees.

The ethics officier didn't seem very trustworthy to me. You report to him that his subordinates blow up refugees for fun and basically all he does is say: "What they haven't stopped doing that after I already told them to stop it? Okay. I'll tell them to stop again."

Oh, that's also a good point... You have soldiers basically murdering civilians by making them run a minefield for supplies, and all the ethics officer does is tell them to stop? There should have been tribunals investigating who was involved, then handing out severe punishments. But the local military must be heavily corrupt - while covering up a few of these crimes by blaming them on the separatists probably works you'd need very highly ranked people to keep the lid on it for so long and so many crimes.

For the 100th time...

 

LS/DS isn't a morality scale. It's about altruism vs greed, self-sacrifice vs selfishness. a quick, clean death vs cruelty.

If however someone doesn't understand the difference then that's for them to figure out.

So what about Black Talon with the General? DS for a quick, clean death and LS for cruelty, painfull death in the near future, I`m 100% sure the Empire does not keep traitors alive in cells, they are executed. Just because his life gets prolonged by a bit makes it LS ignoring the pain, torture, humiliation and finally death that the General will have to go through?

Sometimes living is better than been dead...

Definetly the choices are thinking individuals here, clean death is only good in very few cases while sparing life should be the norm for a jedi.