Gotta love all these insightful arguments on why Unrestricted Warzone Access would be a bad thing. Honestly, I'm just blown away by the caliber of minds here on the SWTOR forums.

Spot on

Great plan. Currently I sub. If this happened, here's what I would do.

New gear comes out. I sub for one month, grind the set on my four characters. Then unsub for the next four months, till the next set comes out. I can then PVP fully for four months for free in the best gear.

That's a business model that's going to make them so much more money. Oh wait they would get 20 percent of what they get from me now. But they will have more players in PVP lol.

Gotta love all these insightful arguments on why Unrestricted Warzone Access would be a bad thing. Honestly, I'm just blown away by the caliber of minds here on the SWTOR forums.

Gotta love this type of post. You try to belittle anyone who is not of your opinion. Believe me the caliber of my mind is probably far in excess if your own. I have an IQ of 140, so much higher than the average, but as I disagree with you, I must be thick. Oh dear, learn to debate without insults.

Gotta love this type of post. You try to belittle anyone who is not of your opinion. Believe me the caliber of my mind is probably far in excess if your own. I have an IQ of 140, so much higher than the average, but as I disagree with you, I must be thick. Oh dear, learn to debate without insults.

If you had, indeed, your IQ above average you'd probably notice that the prime issue here is that subs don't like free players and that most of the posts reek or plain malice.

If your IQ was high enough, you'd notice that the whole PVP system is flawed from many perspectives and selling a flawed product does not improve your business. I know they had to go F2P (even if they said they wouldn't before launch) in order to save their game, but this is just going too far with the proof that EA is a money vampire, and honestly as a paying sub, this bothers me because I'm secondary on their list of priorities, considering that the PVP queues on my server are way too long. A server that has over 200 people on the space station at, most hours of the day. Using your power of deduction, which you claim to have, you'd probably figure out that buying the PVP - packs is not really that popular. Using yourself as an example won't do much cause I can use myself too and it would be quite the opposite. Bottom line, personal examples are not that valid when the queue problem is obvious.

And allow me to say that people "gotta love" posts like YOURS, where they claim to have a developed mind (points for modesty there) but the content of their posts shows otherwise.

If you had, indeed, your IQ above average you'd probably notice that the prime issue here is that subs don't like free players and that most of the posts reek or plain malice.

If your IQ was high enough, you'd notice that the whole PVP system is flawed from many perspectives and selling a flawed product does not improve your business. I know they had to go F2P (even if they said they wouldn't before launch) in order to save their game, but this is just going too far with the proof that EA is a money vampire, and honestly as a paying sub, this bothers me because I'm secondary on their list of priorities, considering that the PVP queues on my server are way too long. A server that has over 200 people on the space station at, most hours of the day. Using your power of deduction, which you claim to have, you'd probably figure out that buying the PVP - packs is not really that popular. Using yourself as an example won't do much cause I can use myself too and it would be quite the opposite. Bottom line, personal examples are not that valid when the queue problem is obvious.

 

And allow me to say that people "gotta love" posts like YOURS, where they claim to have a developed mind (points for modesty there) but the content of their posts shows otherwise.

So you seek to attack me because my opinion differs.

I was not aggressive to any one, but your tone is. The bottom line is I don't think the PVP in this game is flawed and I enjoy it enough to sub. You don't, our opinions differ. That's fine. No one is paying either of us for our opinions here, so they are both equal.

I do get paid for my opinion on business matters though. Maybe you don't understand business that well, if its not your job, why would you. I understand what EA wants from the game, money. They are not vampires to want to increase income. In the current economic climate, developers who develop to make good games and not money, go out of business.

My issue with this topic is no one has given any indication of how making warzones free, would increase profits, as that is all that does and should matter to EA.

If you want to insult me that's fine, you won't get a rise out of me. But if you want to discredit what I say, then say how making it free does not loose money, as I can see ways that it does.

...considering that the PVP queues on my server are way too long.

May I ask which server that is? Because it's nothing like the experience on mine (Red Eclipse). Takes maybe 5 mins tops.

Other points you make I take issue with:

1) you said there were 10 people on fleet before F2P. Not on Red Eclipse, where there were multiple instances of hundreds. So I'm interested to know what server this was. There were fewer before the very first server merges, late at night, many months ago, though I never saw as few as 10.

2) Also, I don't think the PvP in this game is poor. It's certainly superior to WoW and LoL, in my opinon. I've played them both a fair amount. If you consider the PvP so poor I have to ask why you're wasting your time with it when you could do something you prefer instead?

3) There is no reason Bioware should give unlimited PvP for free. They need to take in income to provide the game and run the servers. Given this game is much more complicated than LoL, with much more content to create, they can't follow that game's business model of allowing everyone access to everything for free with perks for cash. SWTOR needs to take in money to survive. Advanced content like full PvP will cost money.

Gotta love this type of post. You try to belittle anyone who is not of your opinion. Believe me the caliber of my mind is probably far in excess if your own. I have an IQ of 140, so much higher than the average, but as I disagree with you, I must be thick. Oh dear, learn to debate without insults.

Only belitting the numerous posts in this thread that simply state "Subscribe!" in more or less words. It really adds nothing to the discussion other than stating their position, and gives nothing for the debate to really focus on.

But please, feel free to mention how high your IQ is again. That will surely make me realize how wrong I must be.

Only belitting the numerous posts in this thread that simply state "Subscribe!" in more or less words. It really adds nothing to the discussion other than stating their position, and gives nothing for the debate to really focus on.

 

But please, feel free to mention how high your IQ is again. That will surely make me realize how wrong I must be.

There are many responses, which give details of why it would be bad, without just saying you have to subscribe. But you have ignored them all. Provide details of how it would be good and how it would increase revenue for EA, as that is what will get them to make changes.

Good less green geared F2P kids in my warzones.

come off it nerd boy, we ALL were a green geard wz player at soem point

Well personally man I don't think it is enough incentive. If you are new it would'nt matter how long it takes because the majority of people will think that it is the normal grind. If you can get things for free, but takes a little longer I think most people wouldn't want to sub. Also if you are already a sub and unsub. You have the gear already so credits and coms would not affect that person. Personally I wouldn't pay for a sub if I could do what I liked to do for free. But that is just me. I think more people will unsub and just play for free because why do I need the credits and coms if I only want to pvp. TBH man you make a lot of sense, but the OP states that pvp is not that great. What does it matter to him if it's not that great. Why does it bother him if it's free or not. He doesn't even like it. That is my issue.

because the OP is only trying to make thigns better for the f2p community i like pvp but doesnt mean that i think the pvp system in this game is brilliant hwen i agree with the OP its not that good and i pvp 90% of hte time, all the OP suggested was give f2p players a less of a restriction to give them motive to be coem a subscriber and i agree with him, and personaly i couldnt give a crap about longer que times or shorter que times, if it meant id be able to enjoy a warzone

So you seek to attack me because my opinion differs.

 

I was not aggressive to any one, but your tone is. The bottom line is I don't think the PVP in this game is flawed and I enjoy it enough to sub. You don't, our opinions differ. That's fine. No one is paying either of us for our opinions here, so they are both equal.

 

I do get paid for my opinion on business matters though. Maybe you don't understand business that well, if its not your job, why would you. I understand what EA wants from the game, money. They are not vampires to want to increase income. In the current economic climate, developers who develop to make good games and not money, go out of business.

 

My issue with this topic is no one has given any indication of how making warzones free, would increase profits, as that is all that does and should matter to EA.

 

If you want to insult me that's fine, you won't get a rise out of me. But if you want to discredit what I say, then say how making it free does not loose money, as I can see ways that it does.

I don't see why you have to feel insulted. I don't even see why you feel attacked, in fact the only thing that might come off as hostile in my post would be that I disagreed, based on what I've seen so far, with your sudden, out - of - nowhere, remark about your IQ. And how could you guess my tone from a post? If you got issues with that I suggest you read this reply with a soft tone of voice, I don't care, the message in it has to get across.

PVP not flawed. Then it must be flawless? Are you serious? And good for you that you enjoy it, I enjoy it too, the problem is I enjoy it a little too rare because of the queue, so before you draw conclussions, get your facts straight. I like SWTOR PVP, I am also aware it has major issues and won't pretend they don't exist.

If you do get payed for your opinion on business, then you probably don't get payed alot, all things considered. And how would you know what my job is? No seriously? This is the third time you pull this out-of-the-blue remarks, what's wrong with you? Do some research before you open your mouth. But you know what, let's analize PVP for a second, your flawless product:

1. Class imbalance

2. Bugs

3. No large scale PVP

4. Hacking

5. Gear gaps

6. No matchmaking

7. Twinking

...

Should I go on? PVP is flawed and they are selling a flawed product. Now I'm fine with the subscriprion because I played this game since launch and I know what it can offer me and PVP is not the only thing in it, but to charge people based on what? On a flawed experience where they run into the above-mentioned isses? But according to you it's how you sell a product, by giving the potential client a frustrating, brief sample? So, really? Someone pays you for your opinon on business for real?

But hey. maybe in your next reply you can mention how much you make per year or what car you drive... you know, information no one asked for and probably not one cares to hear.

come off it nerd boy, we ALL were a green geard wz player at soem point

Never had green gear in 50. Never. How does making something free make you want to pay for it. ahahahahhahahah.

I don't see why you have to feel insulted. I don't even see why you feel attacked, in fact the only thing that might come off as hostile in my post would be that I disagreed, based on what I've seen so far, with your sudden, out - of - nowhere, remark about your IQ. And how could you guess my tone from a post? If you got issues with that I suggest you read this reply with a soft tone of voice, I don't care, the message in it has to get across.

 

PVP not flawed. Then it must be flawless? Are you serious? And good for you that you enjoy it, I enjoy it too, the problem is I enjoy it a little too rare because of the queue, so before you draw conclussions, get your facts straight. I like SWTOR PVP, I am also aware it has major issues and won't pretend they don't exist.

 

If you do get payed for your opinion on business, then you probably don't get payed alot, all things considered. And how would you know what my job is? No seriously? This is the third time you pull this out-of-the-blue remarks, what's wrong with you? Do some research before you open your mouth. But you know what, let's analize PVP for a second, your flawless product:

1. Class imbalance

2. Bugs

3. No large scale PVP

4. Hacking

5. Gear gaps

6. No matchmaking

7. Twinking

...

Should I go on? PVP is flawed and they are selling a flawed product. Now I'm fine with the subscriprion because I played this game since launch and I know what it can offer me and PVP is not the only thing in it, but to charge people based on what? On a flawed experience where they run into the above-mentioned isses? But according to you it's how you sell a product, by giving the potential client a frustrating, brief sample? So, really? Someone pays you for your opinon on business for real?

 

But hey. maybe in your next reply you can mention how much you make per year or what car you drive... you know, information no one asked for and probably not one cares to hear.

Your still not getting it. I never said PVP was flawless. You still have not said how making it free could increase revenue. Until you do that, I give up responding to you, your just after a debate with no actual debating g from you.

Also I will go there. I earn a crap load for my opinions on business. It's not relevant I know. The initial comment about IQ was to debunk your statement that claimed anyone not agreeing with you was stupid.

Bye bye

Your still not getting it. I never said PVP was flawless. You still have not said how making it free could increase revenue. Until you do that, I give up responding to you, your just after a debate with no actual debating g from you.

 

Also I will go there. I earn a crap load for my opinions on business. It's not relevant I know. The initial comment about IQ was to debunk your statement that claimed anyone not agreeing with you was stupid.

 

Bye bye

No you said PVP is not flawed. Do I need to quote that part again? Not flawed... has no flaws... flawless. Are you confused?

So, for one, I aready suggested a reduction of rewards upon completeing a warzone by 90% so a non-sub player. First, you didn't read the thread and just started yapping. Second if you payed attention, it wasn't my post you replied to with your IQ brag, it was Coldin's. 140 IQ... right....

But feel free not to reply. In fact I hope you don't.

What kind of logic is if you make it free more people will pay for it? If anything is free why would you pay money for it. If there were no restrictions nobody would pay. Eventually you can gear up without having to play. Seperating queues will totally go against your point of having shorter q times. I like the F2P players and it has saved the game for now. It is not going to make it any better by allowing f2p with no restrictions. What if the pve people say the "PVE IS NOT THAT GREAT. THERE SHOULD BE NO RESTRICTIONS TO THE AMOUNT OF FP WE CAN RUN." So basically with your logic it means that if a certain group of people don't think its fair than everyone can ask for it for free? I mean is that what is going to save the game?

There is a steady climb of subs because the game went f2p. You can buy one weekly wz pass on the gtn with the credits you earn. Continue to make enough credits to buy one wz pass. The game then becomes unlimited to the people who just want to pvp. They still don't need to spend any real money. I don't see the problem. The thread shouldve been about how they can maximize the use of F2P rather than just giving it away. Like I said why play if you don't think its that great. All I see from the OP is complaints about the game. If the game is bad as you say it is not going to matter what you do people will still quit. The reason this debate is still going is because people want to play the game. People think the pvp is still good even with the flaws. I just don't see how making it free is going to get more subs.

No you said PVP is not flawed. Do I need to quote that part again? Not flawed... has no flaws... flawless. Are you confused?

So, for one, I aready suggested a reduction of rewards upon completeing a warzone by 90% so a non-sub player. First, you didn't read the thread and just started yapping. Second if you payed attention, it wasn't my post you replied to with your IQ brag, it was Coldin's. 140 IQ... right....

 

But feel free not to reply. In fact I hope you don't.

Your arguing semantics now. I said it was not flawed, that is not the same as saying its perfect and you know it. I agree with your seven points, but that was not the issue. The issue was how removing the restriction on games would increase revenue. To this point, no one has been able to even suggest how they think it would.

Your arguing semantics now. I said it was not flawed, that is not the same as saying its perfect and you know it. I agree with your seven points, but that was not the issue. The issue was how removing the restriction on games would increase revenue. To this point, no one has been able to even suggest how they think it would.

It's not hard to think how it would help, since free warzones = more people playing = more possible subscribers or people who use the shop. You would be surprised of how much the average american joe spends each month on f2p games.

This games does not survive through subscription, don't lie to yourself.

It's not hard to think how it would help, since free warzones = more people playing = more possible subscribers or people who use the shop. You would be surprised of how much the average american joe spends each month on f2p games.

 

This games does not survive through subscription, don't lie to yourself.

I know it doesn't survive by subs anymore. They actually want everyone subbed and doing micro transactions. They will do everything then can to fleece people, but that is good business sense. The bulk item packs show how far they will go, it's deplorable but profitable to suck in gamblers.

Free warzones, would give lots of subbed pvpers the chance to unsub and still do what they enjoy.

Then next up would be pve, as was said a few posts ago.

It's not hard to think how it would help, since free warzones = more people playing = more possible subscribers or people who use the shop. You would be surprised of how much the average american joe spends each month on f2p games.

 

This games does not survive through subscription, don't lie to yourself.

More people playing does not equate to more subs. You can already get the gear without having to pay and it just takes a little longer. Look a person needs to just sub for one month. Get all of his gear and buy as much wz passes they need. Then they never have to pay for the game again until the expansion comes out. The game is F2P and the limit of 5 matches is little this I agree with. But if they really wanted to play more they would either sub or buy warzone passes. If they are not buying the passes then it is on them. You don't even have to spend 1 dollar of real money to play pvp. It is all there within the current system. Farm credits and for about a 100k you can buy a wz pass. It now is free with no restrictions and meets all the criteria the OP wanted. There is a way, but all of you people saying that there should be no restrictions are not making sense. You can do it if you just saved some credits. If people are not doing this then once again it is on them. In this society majority of people want things without working for it. The game is F2P and has allowed the F2P players opputunities to be able to play for free. Just work within the system. How much more free can it be if you can just buy the passes and farm credits.

So you think this restriction is such a *********** samrt thing? Honest?

And FYI I never played this game without a subscription, so I'm not here looking for handouts, cause frankly there's not much to hand out when it comes to PVP. So yeah, it *********** matters to a potential custormer. It would matter to me, cause 3 wz a week does not give me any kind of perspective over SWTOR PVP.

 

And besides, there are plenty of restrictions that will make you want to buy this game if you plan to stick around.

That escalated quickly.

In this society majority of people want things without working for it. The game is F2P and has allowed the F2P players opputunities to be able to play for free. Just work within the system. How much more free can it be if you can just buy the passes and farm credits.

Really? We are gonna start a profiling discussion now? About the types of people in societies? Cause if we do I can probably make you eat your own words.

And the game went F2P not out of the kindness of EA's heart, it went F2P cause otherwise it would have *********** died. Their current F2P system is so messed up becuse EA never thought it would come to this, they had so much faith in their success based on the brand they bought and Bioware's reputation, unfortunately that wasn't enough to keep a player base and honestly if they hadn't shut down the other SW MMO they'd probably have even less players.

Bottom line, it's not a premium quality game, in fact it's far from it. EA is trying to cover their losses (considering how much went into this game) every possible way. But there are smarter ways to do that, they just aren't interested in doing it.

Fine, you want a solution to the problem you raised? It's simple, make PVP gear equipable only to subscribers, that should keep people form farming their gear then stop tossing money at dear ol' EA. It keeps people who want to do compeititive PVP subbed and it allows the rest to join in, helping queues on servers that have issues with them.

Now I know the level of malice of this community, I've played since launch and I'm not surprised to see the crap people call upon just... well for the hell of it. A stupid hate aimed in every direction at every subject.

Plus the remaining fanboiz that throw themselves at EA's feet, covering in (virtual) spit and rudeness every valid isse that is raised on this forum. Thing is, the game already has enough issues and barely holding on and it's a *********** shame since it started out good, sadly it's caught between the malicious minority and EA's greed.

You want to help this game or help EA make money? Cause, from what I can see, there's a big *********** difference between the two.

Really? We are gonna start a profiling discussion now? About the types of people in societies? Cause if we do I can probably make you eat your own words.

 

And the game went F2P not out of the kindness of EA's heart, it went F2P cause otherwise it would have *********** died. Their current F2P system is so messed up becuse EA never thought it would come to this, they had so much faith in their success based on the brand they bought and Bioware's reputation, unfortunately that wasn't enough to keep a player base and honestly if they hadn't shut down the other SW MMO they'd probably have even less players.

 

Bottom line, it's not a premium quality game, in fact it's far from it. EA is trying to cover their losses (considering how much went into this game) every possible way. But there are smarter ways to do that, they just aren't interested in doing it.

 

Fine, you want a solution to the problem you raised? It's simple, make PVP gear equipable only to subscribers, that should keep people form farming their gear then stop tossing money at dear ol' EA. It keeps people who want to do compeititive PVP subbed and it allows the rest to join in, helping queues on servers that have issues with them.

 

Now I know the level of malice of this community, I've played since launch and I'm not surprised to see the crap people call upon just... well for the hell of it. A stupid hate aimed in every direction at every subject.

 

Plus the remaining fanboiz that throw themselves at EA's feet, covering in (virtual) spit and rudeness every valid isse that is raised on this forum. Thing is, the game already has enough issues and barely holding on and it's a *********** shame since it started out good, sadly it's caught between the malicious minority and EA's greed.

 

You want to help this game or help EA make money? Cause, from what I can see, there's a big *********** difference between the two.

Quit crying so much and go play elsewhere if you hate it that much. honestly the logic of some players. and if you dont play and just like to comment. then may i suggest a more productive type of activity such as running around in circles with your arms out

Quit crying so much and go play elsewhere if you hate it that much. honestly the logic of some players. and if you dont play and just like to comment. then may i suggest a more productive type of activity such as running around in circles with your arms out

Right back at you. If you have nothing smart to say, and you don't, then don't say aything. A better use of your time would be what you suggested as you contributed nothing but to reinforce my claim about the SWTOR community. And nowhere in my posts does it say I hate it so keep up with the discussion or shut the hell up and go away.

Right back at you. If you have nothing smart to say, and you don't, then don't say aything. A better use of your time would be what you suggested as you contributed nothing but to reinforce my claim about the SWTOR community. And nowhere in my posts does it say I hate it so keep up with the discussion or shut the hell up and go away.

This coming from a man who can't even manage his basic spelling . I will post wherever i see fit. All you are doing is ***** about EA. Better use of my time you say??. Look in a mirror.