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Hats off to the aces!


ellahrairah

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But who are the aces? Its not kills or damage caused... Its who has the most objective points, because they really won the game. Everything else is just support.

 

I give the true scout an exception though... He is the guy keeping the gun***** (not a typo) occupied, dropping sensor buoys and pimping out their ships to give their team and edge, but little glory on the scoreboard...

 

Next time you play a match, you'll see the top players when you push the objective tab and look at those ranks.

 

 

:rak_03:Hats off to the aces!

:rak_03:

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absolutely... Kill Count isn't everything people, and is meaningless if your team does not win, i'd rather win the match than be the loser with the highest Kill Count of the Losing Team... teamwork and helping out your fellow pilots while taking/holding a Sat. is what really matters... so yes Cheers to those that play the game and don't go running off from the objectives, you are the ones really trying to win...
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But who are the aces? Its not kills or damage caused... Its who has the most objective points, because they really won the game. Everything else is just support.

 

I give the true scout an exception though... He is the guy keeping the gun***** (not a typo) occupied, dropping sensor buoys and pimping out their ships to give their team and edge, but little glory on the scoreboard...

 

Next time you play a match, you'll see the top players when you push the objective tab and look at those ranks.

 

 

:rak_03:Hats off to the aces!

:rak_03:

 

Honestly the one that topped objectives wasn't neccisarily the one that did the best job capturing objective points. You only get objective points by staying near a point you already have and more often then not the person that gets the highest objectives were just flying around that one sat and it wasn't contested for a majority of the match.

 

In other words they didn't always do something.

 

At the same time those that have less then 10 objectives and a bunch of kills didn't really do much either (unless they were in a gunship.....maybe) because they didn't contribute to defending or attacking locations.

 

Often the pilots I would call "aces" get around 60-150 objective points a match with several kills as they were clearing trash from (I call killing enemy ships circling satilites 'clearing the trash' lol) and capturing objective points.

 

One stat does not an ACE make.

Edited by tunewalker
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I don't think that's the point. Take a guy who boosts his ship to A at the beginning of the match, caps A, and sits there the whole match, having maybe one kill. I mean, yeah, someone's gotta defend the sat, but this guy will have tons more objective points than the guy who will have 8 turret kills, 7 enemy kills and 4 sat captures in the same game, because he attended in the battle for B and C.

 

It's not really much possible to say who gave the most to the team. Maybe those with the most medals?

 

I myself must admit that once I get pugged, see bunch of unknowns in my team and several good imps, possibly premade, and the game doesn't start well, i.e. we are barely able to hold one sat, I just say screw this, I can't win this myself, let's go on rampage and slaughter as much imps as I can. I admit that it's not good teamplay, but if there is no one to shoot gunships to cover me while I cap, if there is no one to guard satelite I cap, I refuse to do a cannon fodder by trying to caoture well defended imperial outposts.

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Honestly the one that topped objectives wasn't neccisarily the one that did the best job capturing objective points. You only get objective points by staying near a point you already have and more often then not the person that gets the highest objectives were just flying around that one sat and it wasn't contested for a majority of the match.

 

In other words they didn't always do something.

 

At the same time those that have less then 10 objectives and a bunch of kills didn't really do much either (unless they were in a gunship.....maybe) because they didn't contribute to defending or attacking locations.

 

Often the pilots I would call "aces" get around 60-150 objective points a match with several kills as they were clearing trash from (I call killing enemy ships circling satilites 'clearing the trash' lol) and capturing objective points.

 

One stat does not an ACE make.

 

Interestingly, I am often that one guy guarding the sat, AND I frequently finish the match atop the killboard. You see, one good pilot can keep a sat under control for an entire match, allowing his entire team to focus on capturing another WITHOUT needing to peel off to defend or retake a sat in the middle of the attack.

 

So you're wrong on that part. The other stuff is spot on though.

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Interestingly, I am often that one guy guarding the sat, AND I frequently finish the match atop the killboard. You see, one good pilot can keep a sat under control for an entire match, allowing his entire team to focus on capturing another WITHOUT needing to peel off to defend or retake a sat in the middle of the attack.

 

So you're wrong on that part. The other stuff is spot on though.

 

I said Not Neccisarily. Not Always. There are exceptions like the one that you listed :D.

Edited by tunewalker
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you do have a point... as someone who frequently defends, it's not enough to just fly circles... i keep watch on my mini-map and when i see that lone scout heading my way i pop out from under that Sat. like a hornet from it's nest ready to sting the invader... but, i will never let them lure me away from the Sat so one of theirs can come in from the other direction and take it while i'm chasing the original assailant across the entire map... so, defending is more than just circling the Sat...
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you do have a point... as someone who frequently defends, it's not enough to just fly circles... i keep watch on my mini-map and when i see that lone scout heading my way i pop out from under that Sat. like a hornet from it's nest ready to sting the invader... but, i will never let them lure me away from the Sat so one of theirs can come in from the other direction and take it while i'm chasing the original assailant across the entire map... so, defending is more than just circling the Sat...

 

Ya absolutely, you just chase off the invaders keeping them away from the sat but never leaving more then 5k meters from the Sat itself (allows the turrets to provide good cover for you as well). Defending and capturing the sats are a must, but it takes more then flying circles around a sat to win. If you cant clear the trash you cant own the sat.

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Did your team win? If so, Then everyone did the right thing. The game is about teamwork. Not about seeing who can be the best solo player.

 

For instance, if you wanted top damage, simply hop in your Gunship, fly above the enemy spawn ship by 14900m and start chipping away at the turrets. The turrets wont hit you and they have something like 50k+ hp. Most of the time, the enemy wont notice you either as you are way above the spawn, and out of their LOS.

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Honestly the one that topped objectives wasn't neccisarily the one that did the best job capturing objective points. You only get objective points by staying near a point you already have and more often then not the person that gets the highest objectives were just flying around that one sat and it wasn't contested for a majority of the match.

 

In other words they didn't always do something.

 

At the same time those that have less then 10 objectives and a bunch of kills didn't really do much either (unless they were in a gunship.....maybe) because they didn't contribute to defending or attacking locations.

 

Often the pilots I would call "aces" get around 60-150 objective points a match with several kills as they were clearing trash from (I call killing enemy ships circling satilites 'clearing the trash' lol) and capturing objective points.

 

One stat does not an ACE make.

 

I absolutely agree. But statistics are always like that in every place statistics exist. They rarely paint the full picture. I completely agree that someone with a good objective score and not even a single assist is a parasite. But... In my opinion, its the most important of the stats, and I have never come across any parasites on the top 5.

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I don't think that's the point. Take a guy who boosts his ship to A at the beginning of the match, caps A, and sits there the whole match, having maybe one kill. I mean, yeah, someone's gotta defend the sat, but this guy will have tons more objective points than the guy who will have 8 turret kills, 7 enemy kills and 4 sat captures in the same game, because he attended in the battle for B and C.

 

It's not really much possible to say who gave the most to the team. Maybe those with the most medals?

 

I myself must admit that once I get pugged, see bunch of unknowns in my team and several good imps, possibly premade, and the game doesn't start well, i.e. we are barely able to hold one sat, I just say screw this, I can't win this myself, let's go on rampage and slaughter as much imps as I can. I admit that it's not good teamplay, but if there is no one to shoot gunships to cover me while I cap, if there is no one to guard satelite I cap, I refuse to do a cannon fodder by trying to caoture well defended imperial outposts.

 

Sadly, that is the tactic-de-jour for Imperials on Shadowlands... They/we get a bad start, then everyone just hovers around one satellite.... cowering....

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I absolutely agree. But statistics are always like that in every place statistics exist. They rarely paint the full picture. I completely agree that someone with a good objective score and not even a single assist is a parasite. But... In my opinion, its the most important of the stats, and I have never come across any parasites on the top 5.

 

One problem is that you get no objective points for defending a neutral satellite, which is often a critical contribution.

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One problem is that you get no objective points for defending a neutral satellite, which is often a critical contribution.

 

 

Or for a gunship, I once took out 4 enemy scouts back to back allowing my team to cap B in lost shipyards.

 

Did i get objectives point? No because a gunship sitting on a disputed node is just asking for laser fire up his behind, missiles and other gunships shooting.

 

I was away, the attacks were done under bypass for a part (2 oneshots) and therefore I got for that decisive victory no recognition on the board. I got 6k damage. No objectives. That scout guy that flew circle under it got the node. And thats fine really.

 

However don't discard the gunship that covered the capping. Or the scout who chases off a guard or is neutralizing the enemy gunship. Those things don't show on the board at the end.

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The problem is that while the scoreboard can easily measure kills, damage, assists, accuracy, time defending, number of satellites captured, etc, there's no good way for the computer to measure contribution in a domination match. When we get more gameplay types, this might change (deathmatch is the easy example), but for now, you need to rely on your own eyes over the computer to tell you who did well.

 

I could go on about contributing to the game by staying in range of a satellite at critical times, racking up kills in or near capture range, coordinating which pilots go where and when, scouting other points, defending a point by doing nothing but circling it and not crashing, and chasing gunships to force them to barrel roll out of the engagement zone, but I think you guys get the idea and wouldn't read a five page post.

 

Oh, and gunships (once again) play completely differently from everything else, so their contributions are even harder to measure. Specifically, a gunship with low damage/kills/assists is much more likely to have contributed than a strike or scout that's done the same, simply because of things like this:

 

I have a habit of assaulting enemy satellites up close as a gunship.

 

Its surprisingly effective as all the defenders say A GUNSHIP, and fly off to chase me around for a while instead of defending their point.

 

That's hilarious.

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i think he's being facetious... considering this entire thread is pointing out how only Kill Count is not indicative of an Ace, but rather, the ones that stick to the objectives and not fly around as if
was playing in the background chasing that kill count... Edited by Elly_Dawn
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I have a hard time believing 31 to 0 is someone not using cheats. I guess it's possible just hard for me to believe.

 

Its quite possible for an average gunship pilot. A skilled scout with a fully maxed ship can do this too, but it requires the enemy team to have no gunships. Never seen it happen on a strike fighter.

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Many of the "top" players on my server frequently top the damage/kill counts but have ZERO defense medals in a game that requires capturing and holding nodes.

 

You're right, this is not how you're "supposed" to play a node-based game.

 

However, let me point this out: if your best player gets 31 kills with zero deaths, that's 31 times he's sending someone back to the capital ship and forcing them to both wait on the respawn timer and fly back to a node. That's a lot of time they're not spending on the point.

 

Further, defense medals give zero requisition. Kills on the node seem to give a lot, and being part of a team capturing a node gives a couple hundred. Generally, if I'm part of a premade, once I've gotten my first cap of the game, I run around grabbing kills for requisition. If we lose a node, well, who cares? I can always just boost over there and take it back for more requisition. I'm not rewarded for defending the node, and a lot of the time I'm not likely to lose the match (or even the node) anyway.

 

And, frankly, sitting around circling a satellite on my own for half the match is boring.

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You're right, this is not how you're "supposed" to play a node-based game.

 

However, let me point this out: if your best player gets 31 kills with zero deaths, that's 31 times he's sending someone back to the capital ship and forcing them to both wait on the respawn timer and fly back to a node. That's a lot of time they're not spending on the point.

 

Further, defense medals give zero requisition. Kills on the node seem to give a lot, and being part of a team capturing a node gives a couple hundred. Generally, if I'm part of a premade, once I've gotten my first cap of the game, I run around grabbing kills for requisition. If we lose a node, well, who cares? I can always just boost over there and take it back for more requisition. I'm not rewarded for defending the node, and a lot of the time I'm not likely to lose the match (or even the node) anyway.

 

And, frankly, sitting around circling a satellite on my own for half the match is boring.

 

^ Could not have expressed the attitude better myself. You hear the same sort of talk over in regular Warzones with certain players being "too good" to guard the node. In general (not always, of course), I've found the worst of WZ teamplay in space PvP: nodes left abandoned, fighting off node when the cap distance is very short, chasing kills in the middle of nowhere. That's before you get to inc calls, etc. I'm not saying it's not fun. I am sure it is. But Domination is still objective based play, not a deathmatch. Granted, as you say, if a player has a lot of kills, that helps. But it takes more than that type of player to hold a node. I enjoy it, including defending most of the game. I usually play scout DPS so it's well suited for that. Now I find out defense medals don't give Req. Hope they fix that like they did for Hypergate.

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Sitting on a node is not good gameplay. While you do get worthless "defense medals" a sort of a consolation prize, you are most helping your team if you are out seizing new nodes, farming people, or in an actual defense location- which is NEVER right on the node. For instance, the ridge spanning C and B is a solid place to perch if you were playing seriously, as you can quickly respond to any inc. The game offers zero rewards, so predictable literally no one talks about this, but having a rotate group ready to defend a node is proper play.

 

 

It doesn't take much to to be "too good" to sit on a node. The minor defensive advantages offered by the satellite don't make up for the general loss of defensibility. It's also frustrating that, say, gunships, should NEVER be on the node by any reasonable logic, but the game rewards them for capping just the same (and offers no rewards for cleaning the node of enemies, which is more valuable by far). It's very rare that a gunship should have to be within cap range of a satellite, it is worse for the team in all regards, yet the game rewards it.

 

 

But this is the same game where I've seen sages spamming some lifetap ability, then healing themselves, such that they get some healing medal. So this kind of circle jerk is I guess well established amongst the playerbase, I suppose.

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Sitting on a node is not good gameplay. While you do get worthless "defense medals" a sort of a consolation prize, you are most helping your team if you are out seizing new nodes, farming people, or in an actual defense location- which is NEVER right on the node. For instance, the ridge spanning C and B is a solid place to perch if you were playing seriously, as you can quickly respond to any inc. The game offers zero rewards, so predictable literally no one talks about this, but having a rotate group ready to defend a node is proper play.

 

 

It doesn't take much to to be "too good" to sit on a node. The minor defensive advantages offered by the satellite don't make up for the general loss of defensibility. It's also frustrating that, say, gunships, should NEVER be on the node by any reasonable logic, but the game rewards them for capping just the same (and offers no rewards for cleaning the node of enemies, which is more valuable by far). It's very rare that a gunship should have to be within cap range of a satellite, it is worse for the team in all regards, yet the game rewards it.

 

 

But this is the same game where I've seen sages spamming some lifetap ability, then healing themselves, such that they get some healing medal. So this kind of circle jerk is I guess well established amongst the playerbase, I suppose.

 

Good point, but for max req, sitting at a sat and capping sats give max req.

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Sitting on a node is not good gameplay. While you do get worthless "defense medals" a sort of a consolation prize, you are most helping your team if you are out seizing new nodes, farming people, or in an actual defense location- which is NEVER right on the node. For instance, the ridge spanning C and B is a solid place to perch if you were playing seriously, as you can quickly respond to any inc. The game offers zero rewards, so predictable literally no one talks about this, but having a rotate group ready to defend a node is proper play.

 

 

It doesn't take much to to be "too good" to sit on a node. The minor defensive advantages offered by the satellite don't make up for the general loss of defensibility. It's also frustrating that, say, gunships, should NEVER be on the node by any reasonable logic, but the game rewards them for capping just the same (and offers no rewards for cleaning the node of enemies, which is more valuable by far). It's very rare that a gunship should have to be within cap range of a satellite, it is worse for the team in all regards, yet the game rewards it.

 

Depending on your class of ship, it can be the best place to defend the node from. Every incoming ship has to make a straight run right down the pipe. This lets me keep scouts in the center of the reticle for my heavy lasers. With crew member and cooldowns, I can hit scouts even when they pop distortion field. On top of that, the long straight run down gives me plenty of time to lock protons, which since I use the shield and armor piercing mods on my heavies, mean most ships pop before the sat is ever threatened.

 

Your strategy is absolutely fantastic for a scout or a gunship, but not everybody flies those. Different ships require different strategy to maximize their effectiveness. If I absolutely need to boost over to the nearby sat, I'm basically a barrel roll away from proton range anyways.

 

Not everybody flies the way you do. Some people are highly successful flying the "wrong" way.

Edited by Svarthrafn
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