Sorry if I might seem as notorious, but I have found something in the Patch Notes of 2.7.1 that was worrying me a tiny bit :

 

Fixed an exploit in Assault on Tython where players could avoid most of Major Travik’s/Major Imos’s abilities by standing behind a pillar. Fixed an exploit in Korriban Incursion where players could avoid most of Darth Saverus’s/Commander Jensyn’s abilities by standing on a computer terminal.

Fixed an exploit in Assault on Tython where players could avoid most of Major Travik’s/Major Imos’s abilities by standing behind a pillar. Fixed an exploit in Korriban Incursion where players could avoid most of Darth Saverus’s/Commander Jensyn’s abilities by standing on a computer terminal.

 

What worries me about it that this is direct proof that the possibility to use LOS as a way of damage mitigation is effectively put out of the game.

This doesn't sound too good to me having in mind the Sorc answers where there was a lot of emphasis put on LOS as a means to more survivability ... although in PvP, I must admit.

 

So ... this means that LOS is seen as a way of damage mitigation in PvP, but not in PvE (Arena-style boss fights) ...

Edited May 1, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

Sorry if I might seem as notorious, but I have found something in the Patch Notes of 2.7.1 that was worrying me a tiny bit :

 

 

 

What worries me about it that this is direct proof that the possibility to use LOS as a way of damage mitigation is effectively put out of the game.

This doesn't sound too good to me having in mind the Sorc answers where there was a lot of emphasis put on LOS as a means to more survivability ... although in PvP, I must admit.

 

So ... this means that LOS is seen as a way of damage mitigation in PvP, but not in PvE (Arena-style boss fights) ...

Have you played the FP's? Maybe the player could squeeze into the cliff wall or something (clipping issues). They spoke about exploits, not LOS...

What they fixed sounds like an exploit.

 

LOS is not and has not been an option in PvE. With limited exception where LOS is a part of the fight (ex. Titan VI), LOS is not something that a Sorc/Sage can do in PvE to avoid damage. In the limited exceptions that do exist, it is something that is "required" and is something that every other class can do (it is not unique or special to the Sorc/Sage). The references to LOS in the previous answers are part of what makes it clear that the prior answer was focused on PvP, not PvE. That is why we need the current question (which emphasizes PvE).

First... after returning from my wanderings I am very pleased to see that Masters Nala & KBN have done such a wonderful job with this thread. We've lost so many of the old masters since launch.....

 

Kudos to you both, but esp. Master Nala.

 

As for the questions ~ they look great.

 

Possibly the only thing I'd like to see brought up is the idea that maybe our melee attacks should be given an execute ability type of damage buff from force speed. Possibly as a stack of buffs, consumable by our melee attacks. Project is probably the most common ability used in place of an execute. But it would be of great benefit to the class if we had an option that did not consume any force. It makes sense that melee attacks would benefit from force enhanced speed. The value of such a buff would depend entirely on how players used it, so it can't be considered an outright buff to the class. Using this buff would complicate the player's decision about how they should (and if they should), use force speed in their current situation. And adding decisions for players to make is almost always good.

 

PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION?

 

Does anyone think the variety of Sage Hybrids are an intended benefit of the class? Just today, I tried a build that dropped Sever Force and the stun protection in Balance for Rejuvenate and Preservation. I liked it more than I thought I would.

 

There are a variety of solid hybrids in this class and the devs haven't moved much since 1.2 in squashing them.

 

In short... Yes.

 

More than any other class I've played, sage/sorc is very much a "tool box" spec.

 

I can select the abilities and gear for how I would like to play, and make a solid contribution to a group ~ I can't really say that for certain about the other classes I've played. The possible variations are quite staggering. I use concentration (from TK), as a force management tool, in heal spec. I also stack skills and gear to get my bubble lockout down to 14 seconds, and play to maximize the uptime of my bubbles. Both are somewhat unusual, and because of the way this class works ~ I can play that way if I choose.

 

For most of the other classes, cap stone abilities seem far more important, and low level skill points seem far less effective. I do feel that the sage/sorc trees certainly have their "taxes", but the worst taxes are in T3 & T4, where many other classes are just starting to get to their more impressive skill points. In other classes, specs and rotations feel much more "fixed". While sage/sorc depends a great deal on a more reactive style of play.

 

The downsides to sage/sorc being structured this way, is that our capstone abilities end up feeling lackluster for class balance reasons. And it leads to a lot of passionate argument about "what is optimal" for a class where the difference between "optimal" and "everything else" is actualy pretty narrow ~ and performance depends a great deal on how it's played.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Cleet_Xia

Force speed procing melee execute. No.

They just confirmed the madness buff on 2.8 (patch notes: http://dulfy.net/2014/05/01/swtor-patch-2-8-pts-patch-notes/), so I don't think it'd be wise to ask anything dps-wise (as I had requested, and I was wrong). I guess the questions should stay as they are now.

Now that the questions are up, and I assume there are no further changes, I would like to personally thank nala and everyone else that has contributed into these questions which through fruitful discussions, agreements and disagreements have shaped these. Good job all.

Yes, thank you Nala for stepping up for an almost thankless job...lol. Consensus building and word-smithing under these forum conditions is a version of cat-herding. Well done.

 

May the answers we receive have the same level of thought and effort put into them.

May the answers we receive have the same level of thought and effort put into them.

They won't. They've already planned things for 2.8 and I highly doubt that they're going to add to that. If anything they'll probably nerf the stuff in the patch notes, as an outcome of how every other class is showing up for our threads to make sure they still have a squishy class to beat on.

 

2.8 didnt adress:

*Output. Yes, I'm arguing that the buff was far from enough and still way behind some other specs, specs that in some cases even are significally easier to play.

* Force management

* Healing

* And the biggest ***** slap of them all, instant Force Lift to balance shadows but not to balance sages. I find that worse than the "H2F" comment. Why even reduce the cast time on sage force lift? Even an idiot has a reaction time lower than a second.

LOL Midichlorian, let me see if I have this straight:

 

1. Bioware takes away sorc instant WW because sins have too much CC and we have the misfortune of sharing a tree with them.

2. Bioware then gives sins their instant WW back, but not the squishier sorcs who have less in the way of other CC/defensives to fall back on.

 

LOLOLOLOLOL, the incompetence of EAware that gave us H2F knows no bounds.

I would have to agree, that force lift thing is really, really screwy. I'm starting to buy into Midichlorian's theory. Edited May 5, 2014 by Master-Nala

I suppose there is still time to change the wild card into *** do Shadows get instant and we don't =D

I say we just skip he questions altogether. The PTS thread, which now is closed, was ruined by a bunch of ******* who normally never touch the sage/sorcs forums so I wouldnt be surprised if they turned down the "buff" a notch , a buff that already was, in relation to our other shortcomings, too weak. Let's go play shadow or guardian instead like 10/16 in every warzone. Edited May 5, 2014 by MidichIorian

I say we just skip he questions altogether. The PTS thread, which now is closed, was ruined by a bunch of ******* who normally never touch the sage/sorcs forums so I wouldnt be surprised if they turned down the "buff" a notch , a buff that already was, in relation to our other shortcomings, too weak. Let's go play shadow or guardian instead like 10/16 in every warzone.

 

Tait already acknowledged receiving the questions. It will probably be a week or two before we get answers, but we'll see.

I wasn't as upset as others were about the Force Lift thing. Shadows don't have Mental Alacrity - I usually use Lift with alacrity on anyways, and few people interrupt in time.

The problem was never the interrupt so much as alacrity handles it, the issue is pushback, not being able to cast it on the move, and and not being to use it as an additional interrupt when necessary. All these are not suffered when instant. I am also surprised as I always believed that the loss of insta force lift was due to the shadows, but it was due to sages instead?

Now that the questions are up, and I assume there are no further changes, I would like to personally thank nala and everyone else that has contributed into these questions which through fruitful discussions, agreements and disagreements have shaped these. Good job all.

 

I agree. Thank you, everyone, this was one of the best and most serious discussions I've ever had in these forums.

 

As a side-note,. I'd like to point out to this discussion (just in case if you don't know it already :

"Is the DPS buff race getting out of hand ?" http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=739502

Edited May 6, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

I agree. Thank you, everyone, this was one of the best and most serious discussions I've ever had in these forums.

 

As a side-note,. I'd like to point out to this discussion (just in case if you don't know it already :

"Is the DPS buff race getting out of hand ?" http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=739502

 

Yeah it certainly feels like that discussion covers the erosion of Force Armor's effectiveness among other things.

Edited May 6, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk

See? It IS possible to have a sensible discussion in SWTOR.

 

Just rare. XD

Have they actually acknowledged these questions since the turn in date? I know there are changes up on the pts but those look fairly static at this point...

Have they actually acknowledged these questions since the turn in date? I know there are changes up on the pts but those look fairly static at this point...

 

Yes, they have. They are about a month behind in answering though so I expect ours to come in a week or two.