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GSF Changes in 5.9.2

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Mournblood's Avatar


Mournblood
06.06.2018 , 01:30 PM | #11
Bret,

I posed this question to Eric, but haven't gotten a response yet. Eric had stated that a premade group will not get split up by the new matchmaking system in regular WZs or GSF. My principal concern here is how will not splitting up a premade in GSF help to achieve any kind of match balance there when that is the #1 reason why GSF matches are so ridiculously lopsided? While there are certainly other contributing factors to GSF match inequity, such as mastered ships versus un-mastered ships, it's the premades of veteran players versus players who are literally brand new to GSF (which has a higher learning curve than ground PvP) that crushes the life out of that aspect of the game.
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BretHoffman's Avatar


BretHoffman
06.06.2018 , 03:05 PM | #12 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey folks! Thanks for the questions/thoughts. To clarify a couple things with the matchmaking changes for GSF:

The goals:
  • Get matches to pop more frequently.
  • Get those matches to be more fairly balanced.
Cross faction teams helps achieve both of these goals. It makes hitting a critical mass of players to start a match more stable and easier to achieve. It also gives the matchmaker the ability to sort through ALL of the players to arrange the best possible match.

Quote: Originally Posted by Mournblood View Post
Bret,

I posed this question to Eric, but haven't gotten a response yet. Eric had stated that a premade group will not get split up by the new matchmaking system in regular WZs or GSF. My principal concern here is how will not splitting up a premade in GSF help to achieve any kind of match balance there when that is the #1 reason why GSF matches are so ridiculously lopsided? While there are certainly other contributing factors to GSF match inequity, such as mastered ships versus un-mastered ships, it's the premades of veteran players versus players who are literally brand new to GSF (which has a higher learning curve than ground PvP) that crushes the life out of that aspect of the game.

A few points about premade groups:
  • Premade groups no longer count as the average rating of all the ships. They now count everyone in the group as the same as the highest rated player in the group.
  • The matchmaker will attempt to make the most even teams possible.
  • Given this, a premade group with at least 1 highly experienced player would be more apt to be matched up with less experienced/less upgraded players.
Matches should be much more fairly matched across the board after these changes are put into place. This, admittedly, does not cure every ill caused by premade groups of highly skilled player. But it should help to mitigate the issues and improve the quality of matches across the board.

Lendul's Avatar


Lendul
06.06.2018 , 03:49 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Mournblood View Post
Bret,

I posed this question to Eric, but haven't gotten a response yet. Eric had stated that a premade group will not get split up by the new matchmaking system in regular WZs or GSF. My principal concern here is how will not splitting up a premade in GSF help to achieve any kind of match balance there when that is the #1 reason why GSF matches are so ridiculously lopsided? While there are certainly other contributing factors to GSF match inequity, such as mastered ships versus un-mastered ships, it's the premades of veteran players versus players who are literally brand new to GSF (which has a higher learning curve than ground PvP) that crushes the life out of that aspect of the game.
Yep premades will still be able to rolfstomp people into not queing except now when it dies it will be dead for both factions not just one. This will also put an end to the "but I switch" defense as well.

DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
06.06.2018 , 09:11 PM | #14
The real problem with matchmaking in SWTOR is that it's done backwards. As devs previously explained, matchmaking is done by making teams and then matching that team against the closest matching team it can find. It would work WAY better if the matchmaking matched individuals and then formed teams from the individuals. Not sure why that is a difficult concept for EA employed programmers. *sigh*
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Dragondog's Avatar


Dragondog
06.06.2018 , 10:10 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by BretHoffman View Post
  • Premade groups no longer count as the average rating of all the ships. They now count everyone in the group as the same as the highest rated player in the group.
  • The matchmaker will attempt to make the most even teams possible.
  • Given this, a premade group with at least 1 highly experienced player would be more apt to be matched up with less experienced/less upgraded players.
Shouldn't the last point be that this is less likely?
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Stellarcrusade's Avatar


Stellarcrusade
06.06.2018 , 10:35 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
The real problem with matchmaking in SWTOR is that it's done backwards. As devs previously explained, matchmaking is done by making teams and then matching that team against the closest matching team it can find. It would work WAY better if the matchmaking matched individuals and then formed teams from the individuals. Not sure why that is a difficult concept for EA employed programmers. *sigh*
Yes, this might work if they consider those in a premade are 50% better than when not (or some estimated amount), and if we had enough people in the queues. Maybe with cross server queueing we could get closer to enough.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
06.06.2018 , 11:09 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Dragondog View Post
Shouldn't the last point be that this is less likely?
I'm pretty sure he means literally with, as in, on their team. Not with as in, playing a match against.
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Rafiknoll's Avatar


Rafiknoll
06.07.2018 , 02:05 AM | #18
I don't frequent the GSF forums so much so I almost missed this one. Awesome news, and long live solo queueing!!

The one bad thing about cross-faction is that I won't be able to tell according to the sound of the shots, if they are friendly or enemy and will have to always assume hostility when I see shots in my general direction, but the benefits by far overcome the penalties, and it is not so rare to witness some "mute shots" due to the too many sounds going around at a given moment, so perhaps being over-jumpy will be a good outcome actually. Good Job devs!!

All that being said, I still vote for any kind of limitation of the total of GS+Bomber on the field in a given team, along with some "resolve" mechanic for abilities that disable rolling which are vastly used by premades of 4 strikers and proton missiles who voice-coordinate their next target and can not always be resisted against.

geofraynils's Avatar


geofraynils
06.07.2018 , 05:01 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by BretHoffman View Post
Hey folks! Thanks for the questions/thoughts. To clarify a couple things with the matchmaking changes for GSF:

The goals:
  • Get matches to pop more frequently.
  • Get those matches to be more fairly balanced.
Cross faction teams helps achieve both of these goals. It makes hitting a critical mass of players to start a match more stable and easier to achieve. It also gives the matchmaker the ability to sort through ALL of the players to arrange the best possible match.



A few points about premade groups:
  • Premade groups no longer count as the average rating of all the ships. They now count everyone in the group as the same as the highest rated player in the group.
  • The matchmaker will attempt to make the most even teams possible.
  • Given this, a premade group with at least 1 highly experienced player would be more apt to be matched up with less experienced/less upgraded players.
Matches should be much more fairly matched across the board after these changes are put into place. This, admittedly, does not cure every ill caused by premade groups of highly skilled player. But it should help to mitigate the issues and improve the quality of matches across the board.
How are skilled players calculated ? Win rate ? medals ? kills ? damage ?
Is it the same with both ships ? If i'm skilled with sniper and take an other ship in an other category nether played am i considered as my main ship skilled ?

Is it the same for both maps (meaning difference between the 2 goals (def-capture Vs daethmatch)) ?
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BattleAxMaeve's Avatar


BattleAxMaeve
06.07.2018 , 05:07 AM | #20
This is all good, but to get more participants, something will have to be done about the tutorial! GSF uses basic skills not found elsewhere in the game, so the learning curve is incredibly high at the very start. Even if your group is highly tolerant, you know you are letting them down atrociously. The two most basic skills--control of the ship and hitting a moving target--are the ones most in need of a tutorial.

To be most effective, tutorials should start with the practice of ship control by itself. Separating the skill will make for much faster learning. Maps could be taken from the game itself. Targets could be placed in spots of varying difficulty to hit, rather like the boosts available in matches.

Another should be hitting targets that are both stationary and moving at various speeds with changes of directon. Perhaps this could provide some areas without obstacles so that single skill could be isolated by the user for quicker mastery. Other areas should include obstacles in order to combine both fundamental skills.

Yes, there will still be loads to be learned only in real matches. But places to work on the fundamentals without dragging a team down with you would make GSF something I, at least, would avidly pursue. As would many of the people I talk to about it.