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[Video] 1.5 Powertech Pyro PVP Guide

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
[Video] 1.5 Powertech Pyro PVP Guide

Sippix's Avatar


Sippix
02.14.2013 , 04:47 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazmtyh View Post
The primary reason you go Biochem is for the reusable Stims. The implants are a bonus, but the boost in Power you get from the stim can make a difference in a match.
Like this guy said, it's all about the free stim. It's also 'okay' for making money at level 50 by selling Exotech-grade stims. It's also great if you PVE a lot, because you also get a reusable Medpac and a reusable Adrenal. It's really the way to go for your primary character.
Malkiv Mayhem
Powertech Vanguard
Slinger Shadow

Youtube | Enjin | Twitch

So-low's Avatar


So-low
02.16.2013 , 08:22 AM | #42
Interesting guide, although a bit flawed.

First, the tech Crit Chance increase from Burnout is constant, and not just when the target is below 30% HP. Check this yourself by comparing your tech crit chance with Burnout vs. without Burnout.

You stated earlier that replacing any surge with accuracy will greatly affect your crit bonus damage. This is incorrect. I see in your videos that you are above 79% in your crit multiplier. This means you are so heavily into Surge DR that replacing surge rating with enough accuracy to get you to 95% ranged/105% special would only drop you 1-2% in your crit multi. This will ending up netting you far more damage, as most classes have a passive 5% defence chance, with Inquisitors/Consulars having a 10% defense chance. Besides the fact that missing a single RS in any kind of 1 on 1 situation is a death sentence, your rapid shots will also hit more often and therefore have a higher chance to proc CGC. To get yourself started, get the companion 1% bonus to accuracy (I noticed you were at only 90%).

Also, stacking all power and only power is mathmatically not in your favor if you are trying to do the most damage as possible. The gains from crit rating, especially in the 0-150 range, are very high. You will see about a +6-7% ranged/tech crit chance increase if you were to get your crit rating to 150. This is a very large amount of crit to be missing out on, and you will see yourself getting much more damage once you start adding a bit of crit. Personally, I have tried 0 crit, all power, 150 crit, and 250 crit. I found that maintaing 150 crit rating was the most profitable as I would still get 5k railshots, and it was about a 100k damage increase per WZ from 0 crit.

As for your build, I do like what you have and use it myself a lot. However, I would advise you to try out 8/8/25. This build focuses around higher hitting dots, and more powerful Railshots and Flame Bursts. You give up Thermal Detonator, but gain bonuses to Rail Shot (through 9% aim boost), which unlike TD, bypasses most of a targets armor and has a +15% crit chance. All of your elemental attacks hit harder (they also have crit chance increases), and flame burst does 6% more damage on top of that (which all bypass armor). Becuase CGC auto procs at the same time you Flame Burst, every time you FB its like hitting them with a TD, especially if it crits. I contantly get 2.3k flame burst + 1.6k CGC hits on my targets. The 8/8/25 nets me about ~150k more damage per WZ than your build.

Sippix's Avatar


Sippix
02.18.2013 , 05:03 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcooper View Post
Interesting guide, although a bit flawed.
Not really sure I'd use the term "flawed" since this is one of 3 popular builds for PT Pyro. It's more a matter or preference and opinion.

Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcooper View Post
First, the tech Crit Chance increase from Burnout is constant, and not just when the target is below 30% HP. Check this yourself by comparing your tech crit chance with Burnout vs. without Burnout.
I misspoke in my video, and I believe I've admitted to it either in my video comments or in this thread - can't remember now. I, personally, understand how the Skill works.

Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcooper View Post
You stated earlier that replacing any surge with accuracy will greatly affect your crit bonus damage. This is incorrect. I see in your videos that you are above 79% in your crit multiplier. This means you are so heavily into Surge DR that replacing surge rating with enough accuracy to get you to 95% ranged/105% special would only drop you 1-2% in your crit multi. This will ending up netting you far more damage, as most classes have a passive 5% defence chance, with Inquisitors/Consulars having a 10% defense chance. Besides the fact that missing a single RS in any kind of 1 on 1 situation is a death sentence, your rapid shots will also hit more often and therefore have a higher chance to proc CGC. To get yourself started, get the companion 1% bonus to accuracy (I noticed you were at only 90%).
I end up losing 1.86% Surge, to be exact. The additional damage I net with 94-96% Accuracy is actually marginal, and is easily lost in the inconsistencies of actual pvp combat. I have run four different Pyro gear builds on this spec and the only one that scored noticeably lower end-game numbers were builds pushing 35% R Crit (buffed).

Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcooper View Post
Also, stacking all power and only power is mathmatically not in your favor if you are trying to do the most damage as possible. The gains from crit rating, especially in the 0-150 range, are very high. You will see about a +6-7% ranged/tech crit chance increase if you were to get your crit rating to 150. This is a very large amount of crit to be missing out on, and you will see yourself getting much more damage once you start adding a bit of crit. Personally, I have tried 0 crit, all power, 150 crit, and 250 crit. I found that maintaing 150 crit rating was the most profitable as I would still get 5k railshots, and it was about a 100k damage increase per WZ from 0 crit.
I don't have 0 crit. I actually have 48 Crit Rating to bump me to 23.51% R Crit (30.68% Tech / 36.68% Elemental). If you're scoring 5k RS on pvp targets with 150 Crit Rating, then they are not full EWH. The build I use maximizes DPS specifically for RWZ scenarios, where pulling Power to invest into Crit means you will not targets for 5k. If you do happen to land a 5k, it would be right at 5k and no more. This is due to sacrificing Power to pick up Crit Rating. Remember, I have tested these values extensively over months of gameplay.

Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcooper View Post
As for your build, I do like what you have and use it myself a lot. However, I would advise you to try out 8/8/25. This build focuses around higher hitting dots, and more powerful Railshots and Flame Bursts. You give up Thermal Detonator, but gain bonuses to Rail Shot (through 9% aim boost), which unlike TD, bypasses most of a targets armor and has a +15% crit chance. All of your elemental attacks hit harder (they also have crit chance increases), and flame burst does 6% more damage on top of that (which all bypass armor). Becuase CGC auto procs at the same time you Flame Burst, every time you FB its like hitting them with a TD, especially if it crits. I contantly get 2.3k flame burst + 1.6k CGC hits on my targets. The 8/8/25 nets me about ~150k more damage per WZ than your build.
The sustained damage is not how to play a PT Pyro in RWZ scenarios. As a PT Pyro in RWZ's, you are setting up burst. That's most likely why you were netting lower damage with TD, because most people struggle lining up the burst and keeping TD on cooldown (which is critical). I've already topped 1mil damage with this build.

Aside from that, bursting heals and tanks cannot happen using Firebug specs (specs that remove TD and focus on Elemental damage while picking up Steely Resolve). Firebug damage is far too predictable and easy to heal through. Killing a PUG healer that is receiving no crossheals is not proving anything. These things must be tested and forged inside competitive pvp environments, such as RWZ's.

On a side note, I do have all class buffs and companion buffs, at this point. That video was uploaded in patch 1.5, but since none of the fundamental information has changed, there is no need to make a new video guide.
Malkiv Mayhem
Powertech Vanguard
Slinger Shadow

Youtube | Enjin | Twitch

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
02.18.2013 , 08:45 AM | #44
... no crit.... no accuracy.... no good


Like the other poster said 79% crit multi. is not a good choice. Your gaining at most 300 dmg on a crit.(Your RS prob hits about 6k(prob higher cause you have no crit) with accuracy(which doesn't cause you to lose power) your RS would hit for 5.7k and also only miss if a mara hit his cd's or a sin has his cd's popped. Other than that which no class hits them at that point you'd never miss.

I've started to go about gearing this way in the past. What i found is as soon as a dropped below 96.5 accuracy(in a real life pvp setting not a dummy) the very first RS i took i missed. I noticed many other misses throughout the match. I gave it a handful of matches and just too often as i was burning down healers, hitting my rail shot for the killing blow when they're sitting about 25% hp, i'd be moving to my next target and notice bam. The healers back around 60%hp cause my RS missed. It caused me to stick on top of healers rather than being more mobile moving on to the next victim. Where it was taking me maybe 1 rotation and a FB to kill a healer, it was taking me sometimes 2-3(extra 15-20) rotations all because of that one missed rs.

As for no crit., i don't really get this one. Cool your stiff hits harder cause you probably have close to 1300 power. I just feel a more consistent (oxymoron) burst, by having your fb, td, and RP crit more is the better route. Having your TD not crit is just about as much a killer as missing a rail shot. The crit on these abilities is what gives you your big burst. Non crit TD hits for at most ~2.5k FB ~2k ish RP ~2kish as well. Crits on those are going to be TD~4.8k, FB~3.5/4, RP ~4.2k. I just don't see where sacrificing ~15% crit your not taking is at all increase. Sure, you get added base dmg but i just don't think it's the best option.

All and all sure you may put up some giant number when you do crit. But, IMO gearing yourself out in this method is more of an epeen thing with huge crits on RS.Which is not the worst thing. I believe you'd be more effective balancing your stats around so your not wasting 250+/- points in surge getting hammered with massive DR. Lastly, i do not agree with what the other poster said about an ? 8/8/25 build for PvP. TD is a must in PvP like you said the damage is too smooth without it.

Sippix's Avatar


Sippix
02.18.2013 , 03:42 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
... no crit.... no accuracy.... no good
I have no idea who you are, except a guy that hangs around the forums. Not sure I'd be calling builds bad if you have no credentials for yourself.

Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
Like the other poster said 79% crit multi. is not a good choice. Your gaining at most 300 dmg on a crit.(Your RS prob hits about 6k(prob higher cause you have no crit) with accuracy(which doesn't cause you to lose power) your RS would hit for 5.7k and also only miss if a mara hit his cd's or a sin has his cd's popped. Other than that which no class hits them at that point you'd never miss.
You're not going to hit for 5.7k on a full EWH geared player. You guys seems to get hung up on this thing about using statistics from killing under-geared PUGs in regular WZ's. I've never scored anywhere close to a 6k RS crit in a RWZ...ever. It's because on my server, only fully optimized competitive teams queue for ranked.

Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
I've started to go about gearing this way in the past. What i found is as soon as a dropped below 96.5 accuracy(in a real life pvp setting not a dummy) the very first RS i took i missed. I noticed many other misses throughout the match. I gave it a handful of matches and just too often as i was burning down healers, hitting my rail shot for the killing blow when they're sitting about 25% hp, i'd be moving to my next target and notice bam. The healers back around 60%hp cause my RS missed. It caused me to stick on top of healers rather than being more mobile moving on to the next victim. Where it was taking me maybe 1 rotation and a FB to kill a healer, it was taking me sometimes 2-3(extra 15-20) rotations all because of that one missed rs.
Again, you're probably one of the people that didn't understand how to set up burst properly. My up-time on a EWH healer of any kind is 18 seconds at most. If you go watch my videos, I burst healers down in about 5 GCD's typically. That's around 8 seconds. If you're not instantly melting healers, especially Medium and Light Armor healers, then you're doing something wrong. In fact, on my server, I used to challenge healers to survive longer than 20 seconds. If they lasted longer than 20 seconds in a 1v1 duel, I'd give them 100k. I have never given a single credit out on that bet, after dozens of challenges.

Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
As for no crit., i don't really get this one. Cool your stiff hits harder cause you probably have close to 1300 power. I just feel a more consistent (oxymoron) burst, by having your fb, td, and RP crit more is the better route. Having your TD not crit is just about as much a killer as missing a rail shot. The crit on these abilities is what gives you your big burst. Non crit TD hits for at most ~2.5k FB ~2k ish RP ~2kish as well. Crits on those are going to be TD~4.8k, FB~3.5/4, RP ~4.2k. I just don't see where sacrificing ~15% crit your not taking is at all increase. Sure, you get added base dmg but i just don't think it's the best option.
I actually have 1387 Power, giving me 665 Ranged Bonus Damage and 1021 Tech Bonus Damage. And I do have crit. I have enough crit to get me to 23.5% R Crit. 23.5 + 15 = 38.5% Crit Change for RS. That's more than enough to score a crit nearly every time, especially if I've popped EF (which I reserve for bursting hard target or clearing nodes). My crit on ED, RP and TD is 30.67%, with all Tech elemental attacks at 36.67%. Again, those numbers are more than generous. People get hung up on crit percentages, but even at 30%, the crits come very freely.

Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
All and all sure you may put up some giant number when you do crit. But, IMO gearing yourself out in this method is more of an epeen thing with huge crits on RS.Which is not the worst thing. I believe you'd be more effective balancing your stats around so your not wasting 250+/- points in surge getting hammered with massive DR. Lastly, i do not agree with what the other poster said about an ? 8/8/25 build for PvP. TD is a must in PvP like you said the damage is too smooth without it.
It has nothing to do with epeen - It has everything to do with globaling heals and hard targets in RWZ. It's about being the absolute most effective single-target DPS in the game, and this build offers exactly that. No other build has come close to touching this one in RWZ matches. In fact, RWZ teams on my server have switched to my build because they recognize the effectiveness of it. Especially when my DPS is 200k over their top PT Pyro DPS who is running Acc+Crit.

PT Pyro is all about single-target damage. If this were PVE and encounters lasted more than 20 seconds at a time, I'd say definitely go for higher ACC and higher Crit, because it's needed for maximizing sustained damage over long period of time. But that's now how RWZ encounters work.

And I guess you did not bother to read ANY of my other posts, or even look at the comments in the video guide...because if you did, you would see where I said I've played with different gear/stat builds over months. There's a reason why I chose this exact build to use out of all I have spent weeks testing.
Malkiv Mayhem
Powertech Vanguard
Slinger Shadow

Youtube | Enjin | Twitch

So-low's Avatar


So-low
02.18.2013 , 05:53 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Sippix
Not really sure I'd use the term "flawed" since this is one of 3 popular builds for PT Pyro. It's more a matter or preference and opinion.
I'm not saying your build is flawed per se, just your understanding of it and the class. I am however saying your gear is flawed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sippix
I misspoke in my video, and I believe I've admitted to it either in my video comments or in this thread - can't remember now. I, personally, understand how the Skill works.
Good to know.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sippix
I end up losing 1.86% Surge, to be exact. The additional damage I net with 94-96% Accuracy is actually marginal, and is easily lost in the inconsistencies of actual pvp combat. I have run four different Pyro gear builds on this spec and the only one that scored noticeably lower end-game numbers were builds pushing 35% R Crit (buffed).
1.86% surge is marginal when it comes to actual numbers you are htting for. With 0 Accuracy, you will miss RS's. Especially against sorc healers/dps, where you cannot afford any misses. With 0 Accuracy you will miss 10% of the time against sorc healers, and 5% of the time against everyone else (more if they have +defence chance DCDs). This is no good. In rateds when you need to burst a healer down ASAP missing a RS can be the difference between win or lose.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sippix
I don't have 0 crit. I actually have 48 Crit Rating to bump me to 23.51% R Crit (30.68% Tech / 36.68% Elemental). If you're scoring 5k RS on pvp targets with 150 Crit Rating, then they are not full EWH. The build I use maximizes DPS specifically for RWZ scenarios, where pulling Power to invest into Crit means you will not targets for 5k. If you do happen to land a 5k, it would be right at 5k and no more. This is due to sacrificing Power to pick up Crit Rating. Remember, I have tested these values extensively over months of gameplay.
48 is too low. You are missing out on at least 5-6% crit. You talk about needing burst for rateds, but in your case your actual burst will be few and far between. And to be clear, I get 5k RS's against full EWH players in rateds and duels. I don't consider Non-Rated scenarios even worth mentioning. As for my experience, I have played this class since beta, and have been doing rateds since rateds came out on my Assault VG and Pyro PT. I have also healed on my Sage and Scoundrel against this class in rateds.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sippix
The sustained damage is not how to play a PT Pyro in RWZ scenarios. As a PT Pyro in RWZ's, you are setting up burst. That's most likely why you were netting lower damage with TD, because most people struggle lining up the burst and keeping TD on cooldown (which is critical). I've already topped 1mil damage with this build.

Aside from that, bursting heals and tanks cannot happen using Firebug specs (specs that remove TD and focus on Elemental damage while picking up Steely Resolve). Firebug damage is far too predictable and easy to heal through. Killing a PUG healer that is receiving no crossheals is not proving anything. These things must be tested and forged inside competitive pvp environments, such as RWZ's.
Like I said, I have tried all possible specs. I have gotten 1mil+ in both specs, over 1k DPS, etc. I can assure you I know how to properly set up burst with TD builds. What I am saying is that, if played right, the 8/8/25 is capable of higher burst due to harder hitting RS, and harder hitting FBs. I was dueling a full EWH smash jug yesterday and my FB hit for 2.5k and it procced a CGC tick for 1.6k. That is over 4k in 1 hit that is spammable, and almost completely unmitigatable. The biggest hit your going to get out of a TD, which is mitigated by armor, on a Full EWH player, is 4.5k, and that's only if it crits (no increased crit chance on TD, unlike elementals). Whenever I have fought or dueled healers they have told me that no TD is harder to keep themselves up through than TD, mostly because they pop a DCD whenever they see TD on them.

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
02.19.2013 , 07:58 AM | #47
[QUOTE=Sippix;5876289]I have no idea who you are, except a guy that hangs around the forums. Not sure I'd be calling builds bad if you have no credentials for yourself.


I know enough and math backs it up that your smashing your head against the wall with diminishing returns. I tried a power build long ago like I said and missing even 1 RS makes it not worth it.

Honestly how can you burst when the only ability you have that crits on the reg is RS? Your TD and RS combo... TD only crits for you according to your stats around ~22% of the time(idk what 48 crit point equates to)... a 9-10k burst turns into 6-7k w/o a crit. And thats if your RS hits the target....

I was just throwing my 2 cents in, way to get all bent out of shape.