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Kaggath Tournament Finals - Ascending Empire vs Droid Supremacy


Beniboybling

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“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”

 

Final Round: The Ascending Empire vs the Droid Supremacy

 

Welcome to the grand finale of the ‘Kaggath Tournament’., after many months of debate the original eight combatants have been whittled down to two. And the winner of this final round be declared the Grand Champion of the Kaggath.

 

For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

 

Before we begin, let’s set out the ground rules of the finals:

 

 

  • The arena: the galaxy.
  • The Kaggath is won or lost when the leader of either faction is killed.
  • No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base or influence.
  • No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  • No surrender, fight to the death!
  • Apathy is death. Factions are not allowed to hide or wait. They must act.
  • Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power. Capital ships in particular will be evaluated by classification.
  • Factions are autonomous – players have no control over their faction’s decisions, this is instead determined by the nature of their leadership.

 

So, the combatants: Aurbere is returning with a titan force of elite clone troopers, powerful Imperial Knights, a staunch set of commanders and two of the most infamous fleets in the history of warfare. Up against him is Warren-Stride with her all droid armada consisting of the infinite armies of the Confederacy, the mechanised hell-spawn of the Galactic Empire, and the criminal fleet of the notorious Black Sun, lead by some of the most deadly automatons ever built.

 

Behold the factions!

 

The Ascending Empire

 

Leadership

 

Head of State: Mon Mothma

Second-in-Command: Garm Bel Iblis

Allies: Plo Koon & Obi-Wan Kenobi

Supplier: Techno Union

 

Military

 

212th Clone Legion & Imperial Knights

Death Squadron & Thrawn’s Fleet

 

Planets

 

Capital: Coruscant

Supply Base: Balmorra

Stronghold/Military Base: Anaxes

Shipyards: Kuat

Shipyards: Coreilla

 

vs

 

The Droid Supremacy

 

Leadership

 

Head of State: G0-T0

Second-in-Command: Guri

Allies: PROXY & HK-01

Supplier: The Exchange

 

Military

 

Minor Ground Force: Trade Federation Army & Terror Units

Naval Force: Black Sun Navy

 

Planets

 

Capital: Bothawui

Supply Base: Nar Shaddaa

Stronghold/Military Base: Kamino

Stronghold/Military Base: Geonosis

Shipyards: Mon Calamari

 

The King and Queen of the Kaggath themselves are about to duke it out for your approval my friends – but who is the greater majesty? Who will win? The battle lines have been drawn...

 

Let the Kaggath begin!

Edited by Beniboybling
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King Aurbere's got this.

 

His planets are fortresses, I'd like to see Warren try land her entire force on there, she won't get to bear the droids to their Max, whilst Aurbere can bottleneck with his forces.

 

His fleet is arguably far better equipped to face Naval Warfare, and that more than makes up for the Size.

 

Mothma's Charisma cancels out G0-T0's influence IMO, and the IK are more than enough to cancel out Assassination....

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Welcome to the grand finale of the ‘Kaggath Tournament’., after many months of debate the original eight combatants have been whittled down to eight.

 

I just wanted to address this first....

 

But on to the important stuff. Sel, you are looking at this from a purely militant point of view. In fact, I believe that many of the AE's own troops will cause its downfall. And not just the droids. Have we not noticed that the DS controls Kamino? Either Kamioans, or clone programming will tell them of some of the most deadly contingency plans inside of the clones. And when that happens, the AE dies, just as the Republic did.

 

EDIT: Oh, and G0-T0's influence isn't cancelled at all. No one beats a crime lord at their own game. Even Mothma's charisma is for naught compared to G0-T0's.

Edited by Canino
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This is my initial impression:

 

Mon Mothma

Mon Mothma is going to be particularly vulnerable in this debate. She has no Force sensitivity, leaving her completely blind to PROXY’s manipulations or any manner of stealth technology. Nor can she very well defend herself. Obviously she will depend on her Imperial Knights for protection, but really all it takes is a baster bolt or a slash from a claw and she’s dead. She’s frail and vulnerable. Not good qualities to have when the DS has assassins galore.

 

Garm Bel Iblis

Pretty much the same thing. Easy to kill, when not considering external factors. As a person, he’s basically defenseless. Also, the schism between him and Mon Mothma, how is that being remedied again?

 

Plo Koon & Obi-Wan Kenobi

I think this is tricky. What I imagine is that Obi-wan will lead the 212th Clone Legion, and Plo Koon would guard Mon Mothma? The argument could be made that Plo Koon would be out and about commanding, but really, the Imperial Knights are basically Grey Jedi. The Jedi Order, Republic-supporting Jedi like Plo Koon and Obi-wan have no reason to trust them, especially with the life of Mon Mothma. That, and increased security would always help keep her alive.

 

What I’m seeing here is that Garm will command the fleet, protected by a few Imperial Knights, Obi-wan will lead the ground forces, and Plo Koon / the rest of the Imperial Knights will guard Mon Mothma as she holes up somewhere. Does that sound right?

 

Techno Union

Obviously I’m pulling the HK-01 card here. The Techno Union specializes in creating droids. HK-01 specializes in sending droids on violent rampages. On top of that, the Techno Union will undoubtedly switch to the Droid Supremacy’s side. They are not self-sufficient, they need credits. The Droid Supremacy, and especially the Exchange, has plenty of credits to supply. G0-T0’s bank alone had enough to easily buy a planet. Additionally, Mon Mothma was in the senate at the time the Techno Union sided against the Republic, and Obi-wan and Plo Koon have both been sworn enemies of the Techno Union in the past. The Droid Supremacy is already using droids like those the Techno Union supplies, and would pay much more for the Techno Union’s supplies. There is literally no reason that the Techno Union would not defect. And if it doesn’t, no big deal. HK-01 will just make all the droids defect anyways.

 

212th Clone Legion

Luckily, we have a direct comparison here. The 212th Clone Legion and the Trade Federation droid army have squared off before. Of course I admit that the 212th are much more advanced. However, they do not have the number advantage. There are no reinforcements coming, no new clones to be made. And even if the 212th can win a battle or two against the DS, they will lose troops exponentially. During the battle of Utapau, it is said that the clone troopers took heavy casualties. So, although I agree that they are superior troops, the sheer number of the DS’s droids (and let’s not forget the Terror Droids) are simply overwhelming.

 

Imperial Knights

Obviously an issue when it comes to killing off the leaders. However, Terror Troopers, the ultimate assassins, avoided blows from Starkiller’s lightsaber and managed to confuse and disorient him. I think a debate needs to be had about a battle between Imperial Knights and Terror Troopers.

 

Death Squadron & Thrawn’s Fleet

Yikes, big bad ships. Thirty three Star Destroyers from Death Squadron, and nine more from Thrawn’s Fleet. Admittedly, that’s a lot of firepower. That being said, eliminating them shouldn’t be much of an issue. The bridge seems to be a vulnerable place for these types of ships, so if the DS has fighter superiority (or even if they don’t) managing to command a droid pilot to fly its fighter into a Star Destroyer’s bridge shouldn’t be a problem. Suicide runs will be a staple tactic of the DS.

 

 

The AE is definitely formidable, a good faction all around. And I thought I would have the best planets going into this, but I think Aurbere has me beat there. Very good choices.

 

As a preface to this debate, I'm prefectly fine with losing. G0-T0 came in second last time, if he does again, that's fine with me. That being said, I did promise after the last Kaggath that droids would one day rule the galaxy... And I fully expect this to be that day. :d_grin:

 

Best of luck to the AE, of course. Let's have a good debate y'all.

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Have we not noticed that the DS controls Kamino? Either Kamioans, or clone programming will tell them of some of the most deadly contingency plans inside of the clones. And when that happens, the AE dies, just as the Republic did.

 

Oh snap.

 

Order 66 is activated by Darth Sidious/Chancellor Palpatine's command. PROXY can easily impersonate Darth Sidious (or, alternatively, Mon Mothma) and patch a holo-transmission through like last time. Regardless of who the Clones now serve, they will be unable to resist the command because it is encoded into their brains.

 

Obi-wan and Plo Koon will be forced on the run, and Mon Mothma will be powerless to change the troopers' minds. I'm not sure if the Imperial Knights technically count as Jedi. But still, it'll make things very difficult for the AE.

Edited by Warren-Stride
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Oh snap.

 

Order 66 is activated by Darth Sidious/Chancellor Palpatine's command. PROXY can easily impersonate Darth Sidious and patch a holo-transmission through like last time. Regardless of who the Clones now serve, they will be unable to resist the command because it is encoded into their brains.

 

Obi-wan and Plo Koon will be forced on the run, and Mon Mothma will be powerless to change the troopers' minds. I'm not sure if the Imperial Knights technically count as Jedi. But still, it'll make things very difficult for the AE.

They don't need to be Jedi. Anyone associated with Jedi, or any supporter were also marked and killed. I'm telling you, The Techno Union and Order 66 will completely destroy the AE. Obi-wan barely survived Order 66, and Plo Koon did not. Imagine Order 66 with HK doing the same to the droids.

 

Oh, and I have more ideas, M'lady. Many more.

 

Long live the Queen!!

 

Beni, I know. And if you say anything, I have multiple ways to defend my tactic.

Edited by Canino
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Just wanting to cover the Garm and Mothma thing like I did in the last round. Garm originally did not trust her and believed she was trying to become the next emperor. By the Thrawn trilogy he had realized what he had believed to be some one being power hungry was more some one trying to do what they could to win a war. Mothma was a hands on leader who didnt trust many people to do the job right. For this reason she put a lot of responsibility on her own shoulders. Garm knew though that Motthma was much to busy and neither of them could afford her not trusting him. He did not want to enter the engagement with out Mothma's complete trust since with out it, it would waste both of their time and potentially harm more people.

 

He would get Mothma's trust and in the end they were fairly good friends. They may have had different Ideals but they understood and trusted one another. The only reason I ever argued the contrary was Leia and Wedge and the Rebel Alliance. Leia was one of the people that conviced him to come back and Wedge was a fellow corellian potentially even more popular then Garm was. If any one could convince him of his original thoughts being right it would have been these guys especially with the backing of the rebels.

 

 

The DS doesnt have enough leway in this regard. While Proxy may be able to turn into Leia or Wedge or someone else he trusts, that's only 1. Its not enough, he has to see what would be near indisputible evidence to turn against Mothma at this time.

 

 

 

 

Also to Canino's Clone thing earlier. The 501st were made of clones and attack Kamino. These clones are programmed to be 100% loyal and obediant to Mon Mothma she says jump they say how high. She says I want your kamino creators heads on a platter they say Medium or Well-done.

 

Edit: I would figure for the sake of the Kaggath that Order 66 could only be given by Mothma herself, as she is the head of the AE government.

 

 

Edit2: to warren the whole droids ruleing the world I had some of the same thought if our teams ever either faced each other or workd together. My thought would be that 88 would want to kill Go-TO quickly and quitely as I do not believe he was 100% down with killing all organics and then take it over with HK-01 at his side take the money he earned from Luke and Leia and secretly finish building a massive army while the rest of the AoW didnt pay him any mind. When all said and done 88 and 01 return with GO's army and decimate the unprepared AoW :D ending with the successful droid revolution.

Edited by tunewalker
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Also to Canino's Clone thing earlier. The 501st were made of clones and attack Kamino. These clones are programmed to be 100% loyal and obediant to Mon Mothma she says jump they say how high. She says I want your kamino creators heads on a platter they say Medium or Well-done.

 

These clones are made to be 100% loyal to Palps (or the Chancellor). There is a reason clones like Vill, who served in the 501st couldn't even answer to Vader on their contingency plans, as Palps had more loyalty. If Sidious is deemed incorrect, than a nice Mothma replication will do.

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OK, concerning with Order 66 business. Erm.... ah.... actually there is nothing in the rules that prevents that...

 

Hmm.

 

No.

No. No no no no no.

 

This isn't even being BROUGHT UP again until Sunday, and That is an order trooper!

 

It seems like 3 Kaminoans were in on the plot with Dooku, we know from multiple sources that the Kaminoans did not agree with the empire and rose up against them.

 

In all seriousness (Yes I was joking with the commands) The Kamioans who were behind it were likely named individuals... But we'll find out on Sunday, and it's likely best to leave it until then....

 

But Wow Canino.... That's genius.

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No.

No. No no no no no.

 

This isn't even being BROUGHT UP again until Sunday, and That is an order trooper!

 

It seems like 3 Kaminoans were in on the plot with Dooku, we know from multiple sources that the Kaminoans did not agree with the empire and rose up against them.

 

In all seriousness (Yes I was joking with the commands) The Kamioans who were behind it were likely named individuals... But we'll find out on Sunday, and it's likely best to leave it until then....

 

But Wow Canino.... That's genius.

I concur. Lets wait and see, because this at the present moment does in part seem to conflict with the fact that several Clone Troopers disobeyed the order.
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However tune brings up a good point, I dont think Palpatine would be Stupid enough to let anyone but himself give the command, so this time it would be in the hands of Mothma.
You are correct that the Order can only come from the Supreme Chancellor himself.

 

However if one were to manage to impersonate Sidious, this would also work.

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You are correct that the Order can only come from the Supreme Chancellor himself.

 

However if one were to manage to impersonate Sidious, this would also work.

 

Or in this case Mothma, since Mothma is now the Supreme chancellor and I believe that for the sake of the Kaggath like we do to droids, the Loyalty of the clones is 100% to her.

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I think the Techno Union would defect on its own as well, as I point out in my first post.
I don't know about that. The main reason the Techno Union will likely not defect is because their factory is under Republic control. They'd have to abandon it and smuggle their entire operation out of Ascending Empire territory without being caught. And probably lose assets in the process.

 

On the other hand they are already making profit from supplying the AE.

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Or in this case Mothma, since Mothma is now the Supreme chancellor and I believe that for the sake of the Kaggath like we do to droids, the Loyalty of the clones is 100% to her.

 

Then just have PROXY impersonate Mon Mothma and give Order 66. There's no fall-back, "lol just kidding" plan for Order 66. Once it's done, it's done. There's no way to reserve it and make the clones buddy-buddy with the Jedi again.

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Or in this case Mothma, since Mothma is now the Supreme chancellor and I believe that for the sake of the Kaggath like we do to droids, the Loyalty of the clones is 100% to her.
Actually your right there, the order puts the power in the hands of the Supreme Chancellor, not Palpatine himself.

 

However PROXY imitating Mothma is far from impossible.

 

But lets put that on the back burner for now.

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The 212th Clone troopers didn't disobey the order.

 

Different circumstances.

 

Jedi had defected to the separatists before, mainly as spies, but the clones didn't know that. When an order comes from the supreme chancellor, to execute a general (you don't know it's happening all over the galaxy) because the Jedi have tried to take over the republic, you shoot and ask questions later.

 

Here, it's 2 Jedi and a few IK, and one of the most peaceful leaders in galactic history, there's no way they'd be as head first shooty as they were during order 66, it just doesn't make sense.

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