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Kaggath Battlegrounds Semi-Finals: Republic Resistance vs Republic Reborn

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Battlegrounds Semi-Finals: Republic Resistance vs Republic Reborn

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
11.06.2014 , 11:04 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Beni suggested it to me, not the other way around, if we are really just going to force me to pick a ship for the fifth time, despite the fact Nek supposedly lived deep into the Galactic Alliance days when not too long after the Alliance (Imperious-class Star Destroyer) was captured and turned over to Gar Stazi's hands then I don't know what to tell you.
The Alliance was captured in 137ABY

By 36 ABY Nek had been married 3 times and was an Admiral.

So it is a tad iffy.

What Beni might have seen was that the next Supreme Commander of the GADF listed was Stazi who achieved that in 137. But the issue is we don't have a definitive date of Nek's retirement and we don't know if there was ever someone in between them at all.

Bothans appear to have lifespans mirroring that of humans but I'm not entirely sure as they do have a significantly different biology.
I know if you look deep into your heart- which is currently all over that tree- you'll find a way to forgive me.

Aww, geez you look like a puppy! A blonde, eviscerated puppy!

-Alucard

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
11.06.2014 , 11:07 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
The Alliance was captured in 137ABY

By 36 ABY Nek had been married 3 times and was an Admiral.

So it is a tad iffy.

What Beni might have seen was that the next Supreme Commander of the GADF listed was Stazi who achieved that in 137. But the issue is we don't have a definitive date of Nek's retirement and we don't know if there was ever someone in between them at all.

Bothans appear to have lifespans mirroring that of humans but I'm not entirely sure as they do have a significantly different biology.
Well I am not sure how far one character's reach goes, I know for a fact that Nek gives me access to Mon Cal and GADF ships.

Cody was apparently giving me access to pretty much any Imperial Navy ship and I highly doubt he lived too far after the Clone Wars.

I think perhaps as long as it isn't stretched by one or two centuries then it is allowed.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
11.06.2014 , 11:08 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Nomi Sunrider has used Battle Meditation from space down to a planet when she mentally attacked Aleema and stopped her Sith Sorcery, has used it as Battle Mind and as Battle Meld(two unprecedented feats), she is outright claimed to be one of it's finest practitioners.

When Luke did something similar in Dark Empire, the SB claims that it is one of the highest aspects of Battle Meditation.

So yes she CAN have that kind of reach, from a planet to space and vice-versa, with the Force Nexus in the Sacred Spire (which btw allowed Nyax to successfully fight Luke, Mara and Tahiri Veila), in Nomi's hands she will be hugely amped.

Said Force Nexus was cultivated over thousands and thousands of years of Jedi Masters, all kinds of powerful ones as well, using the Temple constantly over the time, this was outright stated to be one of the most powerful next to the Valley of the Jedi, far greater than some assumed boost that Meetra may or may not get from Revan.

In-fact after Nyax tainted it and Vergere used it to trick Jacen into thinking the Order was corrupt, he was so convinced that he believed this might have been where the most powerful Jedi had been getting their power all along(wrong I know but that must signify a huge nexus).
Just quoting so as not to be buried.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.06.2014 , 11:29 PM | #104
I was actually going to bring up Nomi's attack on Aleema earlier, but we departed from the argument before I could.

Also, I think Rayla should be allowed to keep her flagship. This constant changing of flagships has gotten pretty old.

Anyway, I'm off to bed.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.07.2014 , 03:51 AM | #105
My apologies about the Imperious, I honestly thought it was built by Kuat, being an SD and successor to the Peaellon.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.07.2014 , 04:01 AM | #106
So my thoughts on tacticians.

All four of these people are brilliant tacticians, but I do believe they can be ranked. I'm sure it will come as no surprise to anyone when I say that I believe Revan to the best, and superior to Nek. I don't ascribe to the notion that post-ROTJ tacticians are the best of the best, yes Nek beat the Thrawn Simulator but Revan was the Thrawn of his day.

By which I mean to say that he was the great tactician of his era, he single-handedly turn the tides of the Mandalorian Wars, despite it going terribly for the Republic, and in the ensuing Jedi Civil War he masterminded the downfall of the Republic and the Jedi and would have conquered the entire galaxy - in every respect - within 3 years.

He eclipsed all of his contemporaries. Nek, while a brilliant tactician, did not. He did not single-handedly win wars, but did so through the collective effort of a slew of exceptional commanders, he was not a mastermind as Revan was.

Simply put, Revan is in a league apart, and I believe he has a tactical advantage here. Then we factor in the Exile and Antilles, I suspect that Surik will be at Revan's side, being one of his most trusted generals, acting perhaps as the Yularen to Anakin, if it a little more agreeable, and in general improving Revan's tactical capabilities.

And no unfortunately I do not believe Surik will be in the back room doing battle meditation, because she can't do that. Surik has never displayed an ability to perform BM on this scale, only to allies in close proximity to her.

Then we have Wedge, admittedly he's a bit of a spare part. But I think he would be effective at commanding the remainder of Revan's fleet, and in general relaying and executing Revan's orders. He'd also have knowledge of Nek's strategies, and knowledge of how to exploit the weaknesses of Star Destroyers.

If need be he could take to the field, and lead Wraith Squadron in a hands on assault.

All in all I think the Resistance has the tactical advantage, and I think that could deliver a win here.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.07.2014 , 04:12 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Nek is given the credit of being one of the the best tacticians of his time. Surik is the best Naval tactician of her time, she was to the Military what Revan was to the Galaxy. She single handedly won victories at Dxun and many other worlds that other generals could not do with 10x the force. Both thanks to her natural skill in Battle Meditation and her ingenious tactics.

They are near to a match, in my opinion.
I have to disagree here though, Revan was a better naval tactician that Surik, that is why he was put in charge of the Republic Fleet. Surik one many battles yes (though Dxun was a ground battle) but she did not win wars, just like Nek she was a cog and we don't really have any evidence that suggests she was ingenious in her strategies.

I'd say that there is more proof that suggests Nek is the better tactician.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
11.07.2014 , 05:03 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I have to disagree here though, Revan was a better naval tactician that Surik, that is why he was put in charge of the Republic Fleet. Surik one many battles yes (though Dxun was a ground battle) but she did not win wars, just like Nek she was a cog and we don't really have any evidence that suggests she was ingenious in her strategies.

I'd say that there is more proof that suggests Nek is the better tactician.
On my phone so this is the only thing I can reply to:

You misunderstand. Revan was given the fleet, yes. He was the better tactician, agreed. But when it came to handling actual ship vs ship combat, Surik was his superior. She commanded more of the fleet than Revan and Nalak combined, and actually held just as much loyalty. It was the reason Revan and Malak used Malachor in attempt to either turn her or kill her, she had as much of the fleet in her power (Though they were all killed) and everyone idolised her. Her invasion of Dxun was the turning point of the war, a master class in tactics and morale boosting.

And whilst yes I agree that Surik has never actively used battle meditation, she's shown the ability to use it, perhaps even drawing off the manipulation of bonds. When leading her fleets she was a force to be reckoned with, Revan and Malak needed her corrupted or dead in order to stand a chance. Now you could of course put that down to tactical genius, but I don't think so. Atris theorised, and it seems likely, that Revan and Malak abandoned her when marching to the outer rim because she had cut herself off from the force.

This made them somehow believe she wasn't worth it to them anymore, and she would not pose a threat. In my mind this is because her brilliance in fleet warfare was down to force bonds and a subliminal form of Battle Meditation.

Though I accept that this is my theory, and if no one else sees it as plausible I won't hound it's acceptance here.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
11.07.2014 , 05:09 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Nomi Sunrider has used Battle Meditation from space down to a planet when she mentally attacked Aleema and stopped her Sith Sorcery, has used it as Battle Mind and as Battle Meld(two unprecedented feats), she is outright claimed to be one of it's finest practitioners.

When Luke did something similar in Dark Empire, the SB claims that it is one of the highest aspects of Battle Meditation.

So yes she CAN have that kind of reach, from a planet to space and vice-versa, with the Force Nexus in the Sacred Spire (which btw allowed Nyax to successfully fight Luke, Mara and Tahiri Veila), in Nomi's hands she will be hugely amped.

Said Force Nexus was cultivated over thousands and thousands of years of Jedi Masters, all kinds of powerful ones as well, using the Temple constantly over the time, this was outright stated to be one of the most powerful next to the Valley of the Jedi, far greater than some assumed boost that Meetra may or may not get from Revan.

In-fact after Nyax tainted it and Vergere used it to trick Jacen into thinking the Order was corrupt, he was so convinced that he believed this is where the most powerful Jedi had been getting their power all along(wrong I know but that must signify a huge nexus).
There are some huge leaps in logic here.

Nyax cracked open the mountain itself, into the very force Nexus. The temple was merely situated on top of it. If could still be tapped into, slightly, but there's a reason you don't see people performing huge feats in Kaas city as they would in the Dark Temple.

Distances matter in concentrated Nexus'.

Did this supposed nexus help the Jedi against the clones? No. Did it boost Starkiller? No. Did it help Jedi Masters lift with TK, what we've seen Dooku eclipse with ease, unraged, on Serroco? No.

There is now evidence that the nexus in the temple itself is this powerful. And affecting Aleema Rar is not the same as 2 fleets...
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
11.07.2014 , 06:06 AM | #110
Except Mace Windu when he was Master of the Order was given direct control over said mountain, in such a dire situation there is no way he won't tell Nomi of it's power. Besides you don't actually have to break into it, just be in the correct part of the Sacred Spire. The only reason Nyax did so is because he wanted to directly taint the nexus there, which he did.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order