Only class that is currently broken is Vanguard/Pyro as a dps. While other tank specced class such as Guardian/Jugg, Shadow/Assassin can contribute as dps in ops and pvp aspect while vanguard/pyro dps is non-existant. Dev. failing to acknowledge this issue clearly tells me that they haven't played as a dps vanguard.

It doesn't really bother me since I only use Vanguard as a tank, but It's still hilarious to see "working as intended" response from dev.

But they aren't saying that vanguard is "working as intended". They acknowledged that it is lacking in burst and overall dps and they they're working on it on the PTS. I don't see the problem with "Yeah, we're working on it" as a response. The "perception" comment people keep quoting is regarding utility options as a tank/dps class. They were saying that perception was a part of that because nobody was complaining about those abilities before VG/PT dps got nerfed, so once that was back up to par the issues people were having would probably fade away on their own.

I have no idea why sorcs are complaining. I'm seeing 2x lightning sorc teams stomp 2x smash monkey teams in arenas on the PTS, and even before that they were never far behind the FotM classes.

In all seriousness, there isn't any major issue for healing dps class, it's all about positioning, los, using your cd (force barrier/wave/stun/cc) at the right time to increase your survibility in PvP situation. It is more difficult when you are getting chased my 3 marauders, but it's same for all the other class, when you have multiple opponents, you are going to struggle, even if you are the best PvPers. You might be able to take on 3 at the same time if all those 3ppl who are attacking you are noobs.

My sage dps is on par with gunlsinger so I have no idea why you will be hitting enrage timer unless you have a vanguard dps with you.

 

Operative/Scoundrel have the highest survibility out of all the healing class. My 36k hp scoundrel/Operative never dies in WZ unless I'm targeted by at least 4ppl. Scoundrel have the best burst hl and when your instant hl crits for 6.5k+, shield probe, dodge and scamper. Your HP will rarely go down.

If your DPS is on par with gunslinger, then gratz, TORParse statistics are not so optimistic. Great sage can be equal to good gunslinger, the other way around is next to impossible. Healing to Full while DPSing is impossible, as that cuts down your DPS output.

Also, Gunslinger simply has much higher survivability in form of instant defensive cooldowns (shield probe, scrambling field etc, not sure about all their goodies) and periodic heals from being in cover, using probes, etc. So you see, the disparity is there.

As for Scoundrel survivability, that was my point exactly, sorry I worded it poorly so that you got the opposite meaning from it. Scoundrel has much easier time healing to full while doing crapload of damage.

If your DPS is on par with gunslinger, then gratz, TORParse statistics are not so optimistic. Great sage can be equal to good gunslinger, the other way around is next to impossible. Healing to Full while DPSing is impossible, as that cuts down your DPS output.

Also, Gunslinger simply has much higher survivability in form of instant defensive cooldowns (shield probe, scrambling field etc, not sure about all their goodies) and periodic heals from being in cover, using probes, etc. So you see, the disparity is there.

Sage have bubble (absorbs 6k+ dmg), wave (roots target for 2sec), stun, barrier, speed, slow...these tools are available for sage/sorc to increase their survibility. In 1v1 situation you won't have trouble escaping or eliminating your opponent. The problem is that Sage community want to survive in 1v3 situation and claim that they need a buff. Rotate between bubble and your instant hl,that will still crit for 8k+ even with dps spec.

As for Scoundrel survivability, that was my point exactly, sorry I worded it poorly so that you got the opposite meaning from it. Scoundrel has much easier time healing to full while doing crapload of damage.

Scoundrel don't get instant heal if you are not hlr specced so they only have 2 types of healing skills. You have to sacrifice some of healing if you want to dps, you can't have both ways. Imagine having a character that have dps prowess like a gunslinger/sniper with all the healing abilities. Every single people will play that character.

My guess is your lucky if your questions get answered first. The last couple of classes will probably get an answer along the lines of "Just stop moaning, we know you think your class is under powered, everyone thinks there class is under powered we just don't care any more. We thought this class rep idea was cool and would stop people thinking we don't listen, turns out all its show is even when we do listen we don't care. Ask us about fluff and you might get an answer that is more than we don't care."

I assume they must have known what questions they would get but maybe not. I assumed they must have known that players would get to max level in 2 weeks but this seemed like a shock to them and they thought they would have 6 months to add some end game content.

Sage have bubble (absorbs 6k+ dmg), wave (roots target for 2sec), stun, barrier, speed, slow...these tools are available for sage/sorc to increase their survibility. In 1v1 situation you won't have trouble escaping or eliminating your opponent. The problem is that Sage community want to survive in 1v3 situation and claim that they need a buff. Rotate between bubble and your instant hl,that will still crit for 8k+ even with dps spec.

Bubble holds maybe one smash from marauder, and triggers GCD and 20sec immunity to it.

Wave does not knock Marauder out of Obliterate range.

Barrier is a 10sec self-stun during which you must have a good team to notice, throw you a heal or come help (so not a PUG).

Speed is easily rooted, unless you are specced as healer. In comparison to Hydraulic Override of BH or rolling of Agents (both break stuns and grant immunity baseline), that is laughable.

Depending on the small chance that instant heal once per 30 seconds (that triggers GCD) will crit is not a good tactic, as currently critical rating is a "do not want" stat on any class.

We do not ask to be able to survive 1v3, we just want to be on par with other classes.

Scoundrel don't get instant heal if you are not hlr specced so they only have 2 types of healing skills. You have to sacrifice some of healing if you want to dps, you can't have both ways. Imagine having a character that have dps prowess as a gunslinger/sniper with all the healing abilities. Every single people will play that character.

My point was that Healer specced operative has higher survivability and can do larger damage than healer specced sage while still doing higher heals and not having resource problems (no sacrificing health for resource).

Back to gunslinger/sniper, to my knowledge, they have at least two heals, one passive while in cover (so basically all the time) and one for detonating their EMP Discharge (does not trigger GCD). So they do not need to stop doing damage or waste GCD while healing.

I don't see what is wrong with BW's answers. People keep quoting the "heal to full", but that seemed like a reasonable point to me.

I'm here pointing you and everyone else to it ... the quotes are just taken because they caught the readers eye and it was easy to make catchphrases out of them.

Other than that, a DPS Sorcerer under preassure will heal once with his instant self heal and once with his absorb shield and no more after that because every other heal would have a cast time on top of ridiculous cost inefficiency. For Mercenaries this would be even more horrible because they have no instant abilities outside of an AoE heal (that is balanced for AoE healing and thus sucks when used on one only yourself) and the shorter cast time heal has a cooldown ... and it's not hard to imagine that Mercs would've gotten a similar response on the same topic. The "heal to full" part is rather funny and quite stupid to use as an answer regarding defensive cooldowns.

There may be a little room for improvement here, though comparing a Sorcerer to a Marauder or Sniper is not exactly a fair comparison. The fact is, Marauders and Snipers cannot heal themselves to full.

It is used over and over as a meme because it is just simply ridiculous. And they do admitt that Sorcerer survivability is suboptimal!

Sure, you cannot deal damage while you are healing

Which lowers your value as a damage dealer, since you're supposed to deal damage ... another class takes up as much space in your group and wouldn't have this problem, but it wouldn't be fair to compare anything else to those two ACs.

There are no current plans to give Sorcerers some sort of damage mitigation, though we might tweak some existing skills or abilities if we feel that Sorcerers are underperforming. As a Sorcerer, you must play defensively and make them pay for trying to kill you.

So first they admit a problem and then they tell us that they just don't give a damn.

The "make them pay for trying to kill you" is so funny because with no defense worth mentioning (& that doesn't stun you for the duration) any defensive playstyle might seem a little hard to pull off.

Sorcerers should not be easier to shut down than any other Advanced Class, but due to the fact that most of the Sorcerer’s healing and damaging abilities have an activation time, they may need to be more careful than other classes about using LOS to their own advantage

Well, what do we have here? A statement that contradicts itself in more than one way.

1. Sorcerers are not supposed to be easier to shut down than Snipers, but they clearly are!

2. Most of all ranged healing and damage abilities have an activation time and this is the root of the problem.

3. What exactly is there to be careful about? Not getting interrupted? Not getting cast time pushback on group damage in operations? You as a player cannot influence either.

4. LoS actually does not work in favor of the player that has the longer activation times.

most of their abilities are rather straight-forward and easily understood, but getting the most out of those abilities may require a higher skill level than many players are comfortable with.

Translation: Learn to play. Plain and simple ... and rude.

The Critical Rating stat is currently adjusted to a level that grants a critical chance with which we are not completely satisfied, and this means that some specializations lacking a built-in auto-crit are at a disadvantage, while specializations like Madness and Corruption that gain utilities and advantages when they critically hit are at an even bigger disadvantage. We will be working to rectify this issue with the Critical Rating stat in the future, and that should alleviate some issues for Madness, Corruption, and many other specializations within the game.

Now this a lot of people have ignored because it's overshadowed by the answers before that were so completely devoid of quality and the fact that this change should've happened in 2.3 at latest!

Yet, it's a really good answer, thought through, truthful and comprehensive.

The road of comparison only leads to disappointment, and I believe many Guardians and Shadows are disappointed in their 30-meter range options, while Vanguards have many options when they are beyond melee range.

No. Assassins have Force Speed and 10 meter range on all major abilities and Guardians have Force Charge and Saber Throw. And I'm pretty sure none of that has any effect on defensive capabilities, which was the point of the question.

Vanguards wear heavier armor than Shadows and have much better long-range capabilities than Guardians.

And? Inquisitor classes also have twice the base defense chance and Guardians wear heavy armor as well, not to mention that the PTs long range capabilities don't deviate in quality but only quantity actually - it is a melee class through and through.

In short, this is a perception problem, and it is one that you admit didn’t exist when Assault Specialist dealt more damage. When Assault Specialist damage goes up, will this perception issue go away? If not, we’ll address the issue, but we aren’t looking to make massive improvements that would only tip the scales in the other direction.

Snide and useless since there is no perception problem. Statistics and the combat logs we player collected are not subject to perception, they are what the game really is: Numbers.

And numbers don't change just because you look at them differently.

And the playerbase did cry out loud when PT Hybrids were doing insane dps on PTS back in the day - and they were nerfed ... together with full Pyrotech for both ACs which seems to be the root of the problem.

We never intend for hybrids to outperform the 36-point builds, and this is exactly what we addressed in the 2.4 update.

The 36 point builds should outperform the hybrids now.

And they know hybrids are the problem ... and you know how easy it would be to fix any hybrid shennanigans if you just wanted to? Have all the cool stuff in the different trees require the specific stance and you're good to go.

It was done with Assassins a while back and if they would've changed AP's Flamethrower the same way we wouldn't have this conversation now.

And the only thing that 36 point Pyrotech spec might outperform is a Deception Assassin in PvE!

2.4 is bringing a DPS upgrade to both Vanguard damage dealing specializations, as well as a burst upgrade for Assault Specialists and a harder-hitting Fire Pulse for Tactics.

While this is true for AP, Pyrotech clearly got nerfed for both ACs and Mercenary Pyrotech was in even more dire need of attention before. A sign that points into the direction of "they don't know what they are doing".

The most obvious reason is that the Burnout skill does not get its full effect on a target dummy, because a target dummy never falls below 30% health. The less obvious reason is because only around 48% of an Assault Specialist’s damage ignores armor, while for Tactics this number is around 65%.

So Annahilation and Rage Marauders don't have an armor debuff and they can't use their executes either (latter part is also true for MM and hybrid Snipers).

Tell me ... how am I not supposed not to think that I'm getting bullsh*itted here? Because you damn well know this is nothing but a steaming pile and while not as catchy as the "perception problem" one of the things that people disgusted most about these answers.

PR problems?

You really think bioware will come out and say anything about it?? lolololol Think there gonna come out and say something like.

"HEY SORRY"

No they don't care.

This games living on bought time until eso/wildstar kills it which is something i do NOT want do NOT get me wrong been with this game since launch, turned a blind eye to many things i disliked about the game stuck up for it stuck with my vanguard with the nerfs to my main but hey after those answers to those questions it proved to me these devs play favorites with classes and like someone else said "you roll with it or unsub"

Its just a shame your going to see the unsubbing part more than the roll with it part. Unless the devs turn things around soon in the next what lets say 7-8 months assuming wildstar/eso come out around that time. lol

Its gg for this game it'll be down to 1-2 servers and on the rocks.

You did this to yourself bioware keep playing favorites with your classes enjoy the unemployment line!

Bubble holds maybe one smash from marauder, and triggers GCD and 20sec immunity to it.

Wave does not knock Marauder out of Obliterate range.

Barrier is a 10sec self-stun during which you must have a good team to notice, throw you a heal or come help (so not a PUG).

Speed is easily rooted, unless you are specced as healer. In comparison to Hydraulic Override of BH or rolling of Agents (both break stuns and grant immunity baseline), that is laughable.

Depending on the small chance that instant heal once per 30 seconds (that triggers GCD) will crit is not a good tactic, as currently critical rating is a "do not want" stat on any class.

We do not ask to be able to survive 1v3, we just want to be on par with other classes.

Scamper do not break stuns, you can still use scamper while being rooted but you will still have slow effect till it wears off. In addition scamper cost 1/4 of total energy so you maybe able to escape from encounter, but you will have no energy afterwards. All skills will trigger GCD, not just healing skills. You only heal when you are clearly out of danger or let your healing team mate take care of it. I still do not see a problem in 1v1 encounter with any class. While I agree that scoundrel healer are superior in healing than sage, but I disagree on dps aspect. Sages dps while hling specced is much potent than scoundrel hlrs. Sage have more variety of dmg skills while scoundrel dps are limited in healing specced.

Back to gunslinger/sniper, to my knowledge, they have at least two heals, one passive while in cover (so basically all the time) and one for detonating their EMP Discharge (does not trigger GCD). So they do not need to stop doing damage or waste GCD while healing.

Those self-heals are non-existant like vanguard dps, you won't be able to notice it without a microscope.

I wanted to comment on the responses that BW had for sorc and VG.

As a starter, do they have a PR problem. Yes, but I would not consider it significant. The reason is, the questions were prepared and responses were addressed to casual hardcore and extreme hardcore players. These are the ones that come on the forums most of the time. Avg. Joe does not even know that the forums exist.

Most of the hardcore players have played most classes, or are highly familiar with how all classes can perform, wither its PvP and/or PvE. Most these players also ran multiple scenarios and possibilities to identify best trees, gear, skills, etc.. for each class. These players are the ones who run tge elder game, wither its NiM/HM ops or RWZs. Now lets take a look at BW responses:

Sorc can heal as dps, and can break LOS. PTs have ranged atks. Pyro has burn out phase. Pretty basic stuff, that someone who has played the class for few hours can identify, and has nothing to do with questions answered. When BW try to justify that PTs damage is not up to par, because they have 30 meters or sorc can heal as dps we have a serious problem. The devs think the hardcore players are dumb. The questions highly technical and specific (while the VG were poorly written), based on over 4 month of collected data and evidence. And the communities of both PTs and sorc had consensus over these issues, meaning there is no way these are some Qol issues.

The logic BW used to answer most question was simply wrong, and everyone who cared about the questions already knew how these classes were performing. Stuff like if you compare dps on actual ops bosses versus on training dummy is beyond failure in BW devs understanding. Players already tested what you are talking about and determined that the hybrid was the highest parsing within 2-3 weeks since the expansion was out. It just show how disconnected are the devs from how classes actually perform. They have no idea, simple, straight forward.

Now we have to make a stop at "perception problem." You do not come out and tell your customer face and tell him/her that are delusional. I actually canceled my sub due to this response (among other things, but that was the last nail in the coffin), because as part of the community I felt the devs pretty much telling my you don't know any better, and its all in your head. This is terrible customer service.

To summarize, BW did not have any well constructed logical reposes (at least according to the hardcore community game, which understands the game the most among players) and were worded very poorly. Is a response needed? Considering that we get responses regarding the new mount size, I would say for a bare minimum, these question need to be seriously answered, not someone dev/moderator writing some crap from the top of their head.

The funny thing is that people who do PvE complain far more.

 

What happens when you've done your raids and dungeons in a MMO? You complain that you need more, and more, and more. The MMO industry has to churn out raid after raid and dungeon after dungeon and never manages to satisfy its playerbase. Until it gets to the point where many people can't catch up, then you complain that the grind is too hard and too long.

 

PvPers don't have that issue with the game, they just want balance and the ability to enjoy PvP.

 

 

Here you go, devaluing your own ignorant opinion. Guess what, PvP in MMOs is PvP. Just because your PvP skill level is still at the Call of Duty stage doesn't make what you said any bit true. PvPers have just as much of a right to complain as anyone else, and the fact, is, the PvE community dismisses any valid PvP complaint because "herpderp pvpers are st00pid lulz."

I love this post!!!! 100% true!

#1 cause of customer dissatisfaction: Perceived indifference.

BW's CR/CS doesn't even get the basics. Don't hold out any hope.

 

2.) make them pay for trying to kill you..

 

Sounds good in theory. I think the reality plays out as "I make you pay 20% of your life as I crumple like a piece of cardboard."

... god this is sad. Potential for a great game. Managed right into the ground. Worst community and game management i have ever seen.

<this post will be deletetd by the pr team in 10 minutes>

The funny thing is that people who do PvE complain far more.

 

What happens when you've done your raids and dungeons in a MMO? You complain that you need more, and more, and more. The MMO industry has to churn out raid after raid and dungeon after dungeon and never manages to satisfy its playerbase. Until it gets to the point where many people can't catch up, then you complain that the grind is too hard and too long.

 

PvPers don't have that issue with the game, they just want balance and the ability to enjoy PvP.

I'm not done with my raids and dungeons in this or any other MMO. And I don't complain I need more.....and more, and more.

I also do not complain that the grind is too hard and too long.

Balance and the ability to enjoy PVP do not go hand and hand IMO. Challenging PVP and enjoyment does. Imbalance breeds challenge. As I said...real PVP.

Here you go, devaluing your own ignorant opinion. Guess what, PvP in MMOs is PvP. Just because your PvP skill level is still at the Call of Duty stage doesn't make what you said any bit true. PvPers have just as much of a right to complain as anyone else, and the fact, is, the PvE community dismisses any valid PvP complaint because "herpderp pvpers are st00pid lulz."

Oh, if there is anything that I am sure of, it is [one] I can't devalue my opinion because it has little to no value anyway, and [two] you most definitely do not define what is ignorant and what is not.

Call of Duty stage? DId you just insult real PVP for the sake of fake faceroll PVP? Really?

I don't dismiss PVP complaints because I think PVPrs are stupid. They are not stupid IMO. MMO PVP is stupid. True story.

It is foolish to seek perfect balance in a game that has other forms of play, since that balance can never be achieved. Naturally you will likely find this unacceptable. And naturally this will come as no surprise.

Herp Derp.

I love this post!!!! 100% true!

I think it's pretty likely you are mistaken about that.

I'm going to guess that dissatisfaction with an element of PVP in this game is not going to end up killing this game. In fact, I don't think there are enough PVP players to even justify any remark that alludes to some kind of game failure based on the lack of enjoyable PVP.

That does not mean PVP desires are not important...all player desires are important, no matter how small the portion of the community they represent. But all needs and desires have to be measured against the greater game in a game where the same rule set exists for all play styles.

If there was a different PVP rule set (like there should be IMO) it would be different. The fact all playstyles share the lion's share of abilities and stats means all things in the game must be considered against requests that would only benefit one part of the gamer population in a game.

Too many games exist demonstrating the folly of making changes to a class that benefits one side at the detriment to the other..PVE or PVP.

...

 

2.) make them pay for trying to kill you..

 

...

Don't let Johnny Boy read this, he might think you mean you are willing to pay real money to be able to kill someone in PvP.

Way to drive that nail in the coffin Bioware. Best part is they still havent even responded to what they did. They are using the good old ignore it and it will go away tactic. Yeah it will go away lots o folks unsubbing and the silence aint helping to convince us to come back:P

As will be repeated for years to come, this is SOP once EA is involved in any adventure: take the money, ignore the community.

I think it's pretty likely you are mistaken about that.

 

Too many games exist demonstrating the folly of making changes to a class that benefits one side at the detriment to the other..PVE or PVP.

I'm mistaken that I loved the reply???

The thing you are failing to understand is that the majority of "PvP" issues, are also the same exact issues PvEers have - resource management, low DPS, lack of survivability, insufficient heals. PvP and PvE CAN both be balanced without detriment to either one. To think otherwise is folly.

Please, list some (serious) examples of these changes that PvPers are requesting for THEIR class that would negatively impact PvEers of the same class...I bet you find none.

I'm mistaken that I loved the reply???

 

The thing you are failing to understand is that the majority of "PvP" issues, are also the same exact issues PvEers have - resource management, low DPS, lack of survivability, insufficient heals. PvP and PvE CAN both be balanced without detriment to either one. To think otherwise is folly.

 

Please, list some (serious) examples of these changes that PvPers are requesting for THEIR class that would negatively impact PvEers of the same class...I bet you find none.

In all fairness TuX... Pve and PVP balancing of abilities is nearly an impossible task. It has long plagued any MMO and there have always been times where the PVE game (abilities wise, not the fundamental mechanics of raids) have been nerfed due to PVP reasons. (I'm sure it can also go the other way...where if a class is underperforming DPS wise in the PVE end game and is buffed significantly, that would have drastic changes on the PVP environment).

But you do have to at least admit that when a change comes to a class, it drastically effects one of the two types of gameplay. Look at Sorc Healing after 1.2: They lost a lot of their strength because Bioware couldn't fix a double dipping proc on a faster cast Dark Infusion. In a raid situation, the 1.4 second cast (not double dipping) made sorcs as strong as merc/operative healers, but after 1.2 and that double 1.4 second dark infusion went away, sorc healing was definitely not the same in PVE (still viable, just not the same) and in PVP, it was much more difficult to heal because of the *much* longer cast time.

2.0 did do a lot for sorcs, but the developers still blanked on the sorc "class feedback" thread, praying for defensive CD's (we got bubble...which is nice every 2 and half -- 3 minutes).

The only way an MMO class field would ever be balanced is if abilities in PVE and PVP acted differently in their Respective environments. At that point, if something is over-performing in PVP but mediocre in PVE, the adjustments could be made to balance it out for BOTH. Or if one was doing just fine in PVE, but needed to boost DPS somehow in pvp... the developer could just work on that spectrum. But until abilities start working like this, there will never be an accurate balance between classes // specs in Pvp \\ PVE

**Sidenote** all the h2f stuff is hysterical. I hope bioware can at least giggle to themselves before they realize something has to be done.

That begs the question of what the "community" really is, and that's the important issue here. When Bioware talks to people via Cantina Tours or various Q&A forums, they are talking to an elite group, those who are very knowledgeable about the game and will show up at these venues. It is my contention that this group of people think of themselves as a sort of vanguard for the game. They know it SO WELL that they think they are uniquely qualified to "ask for" (stridently) their issues to be solved. Their attitude can best be summarized by the statement, "I know the game. You don't, therefore I am more qualified to offer advice to the developers than you are."

That usually works in life. For example, I'm a pilot; you're not, therefore I'm more qualified to offer advice to Cessna Aircraft Company that you are. Few people would question that approach. The problem is that the hard core elite have mastered the game and tend to concentrate on the esoterica, the minute details that the vast majority of players never encounter. These are the nerds, the people who have put THOUSANDS of hours into the game. In fact, in some cases they have put enough time into the game that it is fair to question their sanity. I'm sorry, but this kind of obsession is simply not normal.

So you wind up with a group of people who think they know more than anyone else (and, in fact, they do), but falsely conclude that this puts them in the driver's seat in terms of telling the developers what they ought to fix next. They are essentially wannabe developers. But it has actually done the opposite. These folks have priced themselves out of contention. They can no longer see the forest for the trees. You can read the links in this thread alone. Most of the contentious points are yawners for the vast majority of players who actually have no idea what these guys are talking about.

And therein lies the danger. The developers are nerds, too, and they certainly know the game better than the elite players. After all, they are privy to the mathematical formulas that determine whether your character lives or dies. It would be very easy to get into this argument. If the developers lock horns with this group, they are going to argue for years (which they do not have) over the same little points and lose focus on the overall game and the level of player that keeps the game alive, the vast 'silent majority' that simply wants to level up a few characters and have fun doing it, while encountering as few bugs and impediments to progress as possible.

My guess is there are few thousand elites, and a few hundred thousand mid-level journeyman players. BW can afford to lose the elites. They'll just move on and trash talk the next game they encounter. But they can't afford to lose the journeyman players, and THAT'S the group the developers should focus upon.

i love horses.

Get a hold of this lad.

Speak for yourself. You do NOT speak on behalf of the "community." Nobody elected you and you certainly do not have a pulse on what the community as a whole feels. Do you actually believe insulting Bioware on this General forum is going to evoke any sort of response to what are extremely esoteric issues of concern to a tiny minority of players? I've never seen any BW posting on these forums other than mild, positive-spin posts by Eric or another "community liaison" that has something very general to announce.

Hmm, VG/PT rep. resigned. From what I heard (not so sure) sorc rep resigned. Both sorc forums and VG forums have lighted up. If you actually factor in PTS, PvP and general forums you have around 1,000 responses from players of which 99% were negative regarding BW responses, in just 3 days. What else do you need as community representation that the players ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE RESPONSES. Is that a perception problem too?!

Way to drive that nail in the coffin Bioware. Best part is they still havent even responded to what they did. They are using the good old ignore it and it will go away tactic. Yeah it will go away lots o folks unsubbing and the silence aint helping to convince us to come back:P

Do you have proof that "lots o folks (are) unsubbing"? People are always disgruntled on forums, so that doesn't really count for anything.

(Not defending Bioware's statements - I'm much less prone to shock or overreaction than 95% of the people I see posting here, but even *I* said "wow, they're basically saying if we think something is wrong then oh well, that's our problem.)