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No More Disney Star Wars References in this EU Game

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
No More Disney Star Wars References in this EU Game

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
07.06.2020 , 08:27 AM | #131
Quote: Originally Posted by AndreiBolkonsky View Post
The book is called Dark Disciple. You can read the summary on the wookiepedia to see that it clearly doesn't fit with the story of the Republic comics.

This quote by John Ostrander was suprisingly easy to find:

If you've watched the clone wars series you'll remember his silly little appearance that was out of character, apparently this book was the continuation. I personally can't find a good reason to explain why didn't they use a new character if they wanted to tell a new story.
Okay, then I guess you don't know that that "silly" appearance from The Clone Wars was from 2010, specifically the episode "Hunt for Ziro" in episode 9 of season 3 that aired on 12 Nov 2010. Long before Disney had anything to do with Star Wars. And, as Ostrander noted, the script for Dark Disciple was adapted from an eight episode story arc that was originally intended for The Clone Wars, was written by George Lucas' daughter, Katie Lucas, and the depiction in that eight story arc and in Dark Disciple, of both Quin and Asajj, are both true to their depictions in The Clone Wars. None of which Disney had anything to do with.
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The-Kaitou-Kid's Avatar


The-Kaitou-Kid
07.06.2020 , 08:45 AM | #132
Quote: Originally Posted by AndreiBolkonsky View Post
The book is called Dark Disciple. You can read the summary on the wookiepedia to see that it clearly doesn't fit with the story of the Republic comics.

This quote by John Ostrander was suprisingly easy to find:



If you've watched the clone wars series you'll remember his silly little appearance that was out of character, apparently this book was the continuation. I personally can't find a good reason to explain why didn't they use a new character if they wanted to tell a new story.
The changes made to his character by Clone Wars predate Disney and Clone Wars was always considered a "higher canon" than the comics he originated in. If they were ever going to pick the character up again, that's the version that was going to be used. Throwing this on Disney is weird, your issue here is with LucasFilm and the story group there that included this version of the character into Clone Wars in the first place.

The issue with the acknowledgements is wholly separate and seems more like an issue with the authors of the new story and the CW episodes as opposed to Disney as a whole, as evidenced by that quote where he states the authors of the story and CW episodes wrote the two acknowledgements. I doubt Disney dictated who they acknowledged in their story, so it again seems weird to throw this on Disney. It's still crummy, obviously, I just don't see how it makes Disney disrespectful when it was the authors that wrote the acknowledgements.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

LtGeneralGezlin's Avatar


LtGeneralGezlin
07.06.2020 , 09:17 AM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
How has this nonsense gone on this long?
Forum PVP is fun, especially when people like the OP fall for obvious April fools jokes, and refuse to accept they were wrong, even after seeing proof that they were fooled.

LtGeneralGezlin's Avatar


LtGeneralGezlin
07.06.2020 , 09:31 AM | #134
Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post
The changes made to his character by Clone Wars predate Disney and Clone Wars was always considered a "higher canon" than the comics he originated in. If they were ever going to pick the character up again, that's the version that was going to be used. Throwing this on Disney is weird, your issue here is with LucasFilm and the story group there that included this version of the character into Clone Wars in the first place.

The issue with the acknowledgements is wholly separate and seems more like an issue with the authors of the new story and the CW episodes as opposed to Disney as a whole, as evidenced by that quote where he states the authors of the story and CW episodes wrote the two acknowledgements. I doubt Disney dictated who they acknowledged in their story, so it again seems weird to throw this on Disney. It's still crummy, obviously, I just don't see how it makes Disney disrespectful when it was the authors that wrote the acknowledgements.
Even blaming The Story Group is weird, because when the episode with Vos was in production, the Story Group didn't exist, apart from Leland Chee. Back when GL still owned Lucasfilm, he did a lot of things that went against the EU: Killing off Jedi Master Even Piell in an episode of TCW, even though the character already died in one of the post RotS novels, the new characterization of Vos, the whole issue with the Mandalorians, and Karen Traviss leaving, Maul living, and nearly including Revan and the EU version of Bane in the Mortis Trilogy, even when Bane's... spirt or whatever did appear, fans were still mad about it because it wasn't Bane as he was in the EU (Even though Bane was a creation of George's from the time of TPM). But, a lot of the Anti-Disney 'fans' ignore that, and follow the "Disney is to blame for everything" talking point.

AndreiBolkonsky's Avatar


AndreiBolkonsky
07.06.2020 , 09:38 AM | #135
The book was released in 2015 and therefore it is part of the disney canon, and supposedly approved by them. They could have cancelled it like so many other things. I said that it's not entirely true that Disney is treating the EU with respect, that doesn't mean that I think that what came before did (it didn't). But that is not a matter for this thread.

Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post
The issue with the acknowledgements is wholly separate and seems more like an issue with the authors of the new story and the CW episodes as opposed to Disney as a whole, as evidenced by that quote where he states the authors of the story and CW episodes wrote the two acknowledgements. I doubt Disney dictated who they acknowledged in their story, so it again seems weird to throw this on Disney. It's still crummy, obviously, I just don't see how it makes Disney disrespectful when it was the authors that wrote the acknowledgements.
I don't know, you can leave to the authors thanking this or that person for helping, but crediting the original creators? That should have been mandatory, if that's not lack of respect I don't know what it is. I don't know whose fault it was, but at least the editors should have caught that. I'm not blaming Disney directly, but it's a Disney Star Wars book.

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
07.06.2020 , 10:43 AM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by AndreiBolkonsky View Post
The book was released in 2015 and therefore it is part of the disney canon, and supposedly approved by them. They could have cancelled it like so many other things. I said that it's not entirely true that Disney is treating the EU with respect, that doesn't mean that I think that what came before did (it didn't). But that is not a matter for this thread.
Which does not change the fact that it was not Disney that changed the character, so Disney can not be blamed for not "respecting" the character. The change to the character occurred in 2010, long before Disney, and the Clone Wars animated series was higher canon than the comic in which Quin first appeared. This is an example of what I commented about before. George Lucas could and would change things from lower levels of canon at will whenever it suited them. Quin is an example of that. The EU was never safe and could be overwritten whenever Lucas and LucasFilm decided to change something. They could, at any time, override something, contradict something, rename planets and characters, kill off characters, resurrect characters, whatever they wanted and the animated Clone Wars is a prime example of T canon (one step below G(eorge) canon) overriding lower levels of canon as it happened quite a lot.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon

As Leland Chee said in 2006:
Quote:
The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we've got in the Holocron. You're never going to know what George's view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving. It remains elastic until it gets committed to film or another official source. Even then, we know there's always room for change. Though the Holocron is maintained by Licensing, it is utilized by folks throughout all the Lucas companies.
https://web.archive.org/web/20070227...583&start=1050
Obviously this was said before the Clone Wars animated movie (2008) and series (originally 2008-2014), both of which were produced by LucasFilm and George Lucas was involved with both. Is it any wonder why only G and T canon were carried forward? That only the works specifically produced by George Lucas and LucasFilm were carried forward into the Disney canon? The reason for that is largely in the above quote. Because George Lucas never considered anything Star Wars related as canon that George Lucas did not themselves create.
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The-Kaitou-Kid's Avatar


The-Kaitou-Kid
07.06.2020 , 11:12 AM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by AndreiBolkonsky View Post
The book was released in 2015 and therefore it is part of the disney canon, and supposedly approved by them. They could have cancelled it like so many other things. I said that it's not entirely true that Disney is treating the EU with respect, that doesn't mean that I think that what came before did (it didn't). But that is not a matter for this thread.
This is what you said:

Quote: Originally Posted by AndreiBolkonsky View Post
However what is not respectful is what they did with Quinlan Vos. Take a EU created character, keep the name and a certain resemblance, but then change the story and characterization, and make it canon, supposedly invalidating the original one. Add to that that they did not even credit or thank the original authors anywhere, and I wonder, at that point, why not just create a new character?
Note the underlined. You made it seem as though Disney did all of this themselves, but Disney didn't do any of that stuff, LucasFilm did when they brought Vos into Clone Wars. Disney just continued the story of the Clone Wars version since the scripts already existed and that's what's in their canon. It was also already a higher canon than the comics due to the way LucasFilm considered the canon, so even that was already done before Disney came along.

I'm not going to say you're wrong and that Disney has treated all the EU stuff they've reused with respect, I honestly don't know. What I will say is I think Quinlan Vos is a bad example of what you're trying to point out, because none of the lack of respect here originated with Disney.

Quote: Originally Posted by AndreiBolkonsky View Post
I don't know, you can leave to the authors thanking this or that person for helping, but crediting the original creators? That should have been mandatory, if that's not lack of respect I don't know what it is. I don't know whose fault it was, but at least the editors should have caught that. I'm not blaming Disney directly, but it's a Disney Star Wars book.
I do feel like this falls squarely on the authors. I don't think publishers should be dictating who or what goes into a novel's acknowledgement outside of double checking for obvious problems like thanking hate groups or something ridiculous like that. Beyond that, it's on the authors. The lack of respect would lie with them, and that seems like who John Ostrander was taking issue with.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Tofu_Shark's Avatar


Tofu_Shark
07.06.2020 , 11:33 AM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Rebamcfan View Post
I am curious: how has Disney/Lucasfilm shown disrespect to the fans of EU/Legends? And how are they not respecting the EU/Legends? The way I see it, making characters like Thrawn to fit into the wider context of their own extended universe is highly appreciated and especially respectful and recognizing the talents of those who created these stories, like Timothy Zahn in this case.
The Disney Thrawn is a watered-down version of the EU Thrawn. They did at least ask Timothy Zahn to write more background for him instead of doing it themselves. I've not heard of them doing this for any other character from the EU they wanted to reintroduce though.
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AndreiBolkonsky's Avatar


AndreiBolkonsky
07.06.2020 , 12:13 PM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post
Note the underlined. You made it seem as though Disney did all of this themselves, but Disney didn't do any of that stuff, LucasFilm did when they brought Vos into Clone Wars. Disney just continued the story of the Clone Wars version since the scripts already existed and that's what's in their canon. It was also already a higher canon than the comics due to the way LucasFilm considered the canon, so even that was already done before Disney came along.
My bad then, I understand that had Disney not bought Star Wars, the events of that book would have unfortunately happened in one way or another. But I still think Disney is equally reponsible for allowing that book to be written and published. Just because they inherited that mistake it doesn't mean they had to go along with it. They wouldn't do that with their new canon (or at least I hope).