Why? I dps with the best of them on my shadow

ya you don't need utility skills right...Lolz and i bet your a mouse clicker too

I'm a subscriber so this doesn't really affect me, but I have to agree that selling hotbars is just silly. It's the only thing that I find truly objectionable about SWTOR's F2P model. If the purpose is to make subscribers feel like they are getting "value," you have at least one subscriber here who doesn't really see it that way. I want the F2P players to have an enjoyable experience so that they want to spend money on fun stuff so that the game gets better, and hijacking the UI so they have to fumble around with insufficient buttons until they get frustrated is a bad plan. I think Bioware underestimates the annoyance-factor of limited quick bars, especially if they are coming from WoW where they can use a UI mod to set up hundreds of buttons if they want to.

Once a F2P player becomes frustrated with the limited UI, he or she will have two options -- pay money to "fix" the UI or quit. In my experience, being frustrated by a game is not good incentive to get me to want to pay money for it. If I'm frustrated, I'd be much more inclined to just go play a different game. Better to give F2P players the best possible experience so that they are having fun and want more. Fun is a much better incentive to spending money than frustration.

At the very least, the UI bars should be unlocked for Preferred players.

The end goal is to encourage players to subscribe. They want to give them a large taste of the game to wet their appetite and see if they wish to continue after the complete Act 3 on 2 characters. After people have 2 50s BW hopes they'll subscribe, they want to pressure people into subbing. And to be honest, this is a good way to make subscribers feel like they're not been cheated out of the months they pay for from Dec 2011 to Nov 2012. If F2P players got all that content for free then the backlash from the people who played for 11 months would be devastating to the game.

1. If that is their end goal, they are morons. The game FAILED massively as a subscription model game by losing such a large percentage of their players who felt the game WASNT WORTH PAYING FOR.

2. Ending a subscription model for a F2P model hoping for a new subscriber...think about that. Half-assed, like just about everything else they have done with this game.

3. And to be honest, it isnt a good idea, it HASNT WORKED WITH ANY OTHER FAILED SUBSCRIPTION BASED GAME. Not one. Go log onto EQ2...or AoC...or AO...any game that went from sub to pay trap. The only game that went from sub to F2P that is doing well is DDO and it is not a pay trap game.

4. No company that lost so many players that it has to change its business model to survive should be placing old players over the NEW PLAYERS THEY ARE TRYING TO GET...especially in a game that failed mostly because of those old players shutting down everyone and anyone that tried to get Bioware to notice WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE GAME in the first place.

Fanboys kill more games than bad companies because at least a bad company would still try to SAVE their income by fixing the problem...

1. If that is their end goal, they are morons. The game FAILED massively as a subscription model game by losing such a large percentage of their players who felt the game WASNT WORTH PAYING FOR.

 

2. Ending a subscription model for a F2P model hoping for a new subscriber...think about that. Half-assed, like just about everything else they have done with this game.

 

3. And to be honest, it isnt a good idea, it HASNT WORKED WITH ANY OTHER FAILED SUBSCRIPTION BASED GAME. Not one. Go log onto EQ2...or AoC...or AO...any game that went from sub to pay trap. The only game that went from sub to F2P that is doing well is DDO and it is not a pay trap game.

 

4. No company that lost so many players that it has to change its business model to survive should be placing old players over the NEW PLAYERS THEY ARE TRYING TO GET...especially in a game that failed mostly because of those old players shutting down everyone and anyone that tried to get Bioware to notice WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE GAME in the first place.

 

Fanboys kill more games than bad companies because at least a bad company would still try to SAVE their income by fixing the problem...

The one thing that will save this game will be dlc every 6 weeks and not small ones big ones like dcuo. Stuff that will take you 6 weeks to do to be able to keep up the 6 week time table they said

^ I should also add, and no offensive intended, but anyone who thinks Action bars or "hot bars" are optional, or just a convince, is a casual player.

Exactly. F2P with no purchases is for casual players.

They don't understand what is required to be able to play a game competitively. If you can't be competitive in a multiplayer game, there is no reason to -really- play. Not really.

People who enjoy the game but aren't that interested in end-game raiding or warzones will probably be satisfied with Preferred status and making purchases over time to get the experience they want, The best option for people who are hardcore raiders or PvPers will always be subbing.

^ I should also add, and no offensive intended, but anyone who thinks Action bars or "hot bars" are optional, or just a convince, is a casual player. They don't understand what is required to be able to play a game competitively. If you can't be competitive in a multiplayer game, there is no reason to -really- play. Not really.

no offense intended with my comment, but if you are a playing to be competitive its more than likely that the player should be subbing. f2p is to entice casual players to either purchase unlocks from the cartel shop or to sub, not to give free players the whole game

Just pay your sub for crying out loud, everyone knows f2p models are basically big demo's......your not actually meant to get the game for free.

Its only $15 a month.....sheesh.

All of these STUPID limits is the main reason I am not coming back.

Logged in last night to check things out and find out there is a cap on credits, my bars limited to two, no titles, can't equip gear I earned, reduced XP, and so much more

Bioware really needed to take a good, long look at some of F2P models that work really well and then do even more. Lets face it, a game as major as this going F2P not even a year after release screams "This game is failing and we want players to return to try and save it!". Limiting returning players (that have PURCHASED the game, some of us subbing for months and buying the $150 CE) like this is nuts and NOT the way to get players back.

Things like character slots, quick travel options, limits on the GTN, and excess to NEW content (released after the retail release) are things that should be limited. NONE of those things are important to gameplay and progression. All of these limits can be dealt with and some of them (like quick travel options) would be something I would be willing to pay for to have access too.

However, all of these limits to players that have purchased the game is just crazy and the reason I will STILL not be returning. Not to mention the fact that it seems like such an important part of the story telling (the Codex) is still really bugged with tons of missing or impossible unlocks for some classes after almost a full year that it SHOULD have been fixed.

Want me back? Don't force me to resub to get my bonus credits that I have earned (I purchased the CE, I shouldn't be forced to resub now that the game is F2P to get my CE bonus points), don't limit important gameplay functions for players that have PURCHASED the game. Remove all the crazy limits for players that are returning players and just limit the number of characters we can have and stuff like that.

Sadly I highly doubt anything will change now, and based on everything I have been reading, a LOT of former players are not happy with a lot of these limits and will STILL not be playing the game even though it is free. There is simply so many other great games out there that have done F2P SOOOOO much better than this and don't punish former players with such STUPID limits.

EDIT: Just wanted to make it clear that for players that are TRUELY F2P (never purchased ANYTHING, not even the game) can still have all these crazy limits. Its for players that you are trying to get back (all the players that have PURCHASED the whole game) that I am talking about here. So many F2P models for other games allow players that have purchased the game basically total access to everything except for some non-important gameplay elements like the number of characters and other things I mentioned.

All of these STUPID limits is the main reason I am not coming back.

 

Logged in last night to check things out and find out there is a cap on credits, my bars limited to two, no titles, can't equip gear I earned, reduced XP, and so much more

 

Bioware really needed to take a good, long look at some of F2P models that work really well and then do even more. Lets face it, a game as major as this going F2P not even a year after release screams "This game is failing and we want players to return to try and save it!". Limiting returning players (that have PURCHASED the game, some of us subbing for months and buying the $150 CE) like this is nuts and NOT the way to get players back.

 

Things like character slots, quick travel options, limits on the GTN, and excess to NEW content (released after the retail release) are things that should be limited. NONE of those things are important to gameplay and progression. All of these limits can be dealt with and some of them (like quick travel options) would be something I would be willing to pay for to have access too.

 

However, all of these limits to players that have purchased the game is just crazy and the reason I will STILL not be returning. Not to mention the fact that it seems like such an important part of the story telling (the Codex) is still really bugged with tons of missing or impossible unlocks for some classes after almost a full year that it SHOULD have been fixed.

 

Want me back? Don't force me to resub to get my bonus credits that I have earned (I purchased the CE, I shouldn't be forced to resub now that the game is F2P to get my CE bonus points), don't limit important gameplay functions for players that have PURCHASED the game. Remove all the crazy limits for players that are returning players and just limit the number of characters we can have and stuff like that.

 

Sadly I highly doubt anything will change now, and based on everything I have been reading, a LOT of former players are not happy with a lot of these limits and will STILL not be playing the game even though it is free. There is simply so many other great games out there that have done F2P SOOOOO much better than this and don't punish former players with such STUPID limits.

 

EDIT: Just wanted to make it clear that for players that are TRUELY F2P (never purchased ANYTHING, not even the game) can still have all these crazy limits. Its for players that you are trying to get back (all the players that have PURCHASED the whole game) that I am talking about here. So many F2P models for other games allow players that have purchased the game basically total access to everything except for some non-important gameplay elements like the number of characters and other things I mentioned.

So many great games Out there yet your here haggling over 15bucks

Yeah they must be great

You want to play yet you don't want to pay well bad luck put up or shut up

So many great games Out there yet your here haggling over 15bucks

Yeah they must be great

 

You want to play yet you don't want to pay well bad luck put up or shut up

Ok next....

@topic

I even considered spending a good sum in coin cartel but after seeing this system I refuse to give money to a company that treats players like idiots

All of these STUPID limits is the main reason I am not coming back.

 

Logged in last night to check things out and find out there is a cap on credits, my bars limited to two, no titles, can't equip gear I earned, reduced XP, and so much more

(...)

Just cutting the quote short because I agree with most of your points anyway

I played till Diablo 3 beta release. Quit mostly because my server was beyond-low and I'm not into rerolls. I was really hyped about this game going F2P, wondering if maybe now it will be the time to resub. I knew I could live without many *sub-only* things.

I could've lived with having 350k out of 1.7M credits that I made @lvl 47 accessible to me. I could've lived without my titles. I could've lived without most of the customization.

But when I learned that in a game that is about having access to your skills I am limited to two quickbars and more are "premium"... Really, how thick your marketing has got to be to come up with such a thing. Here are some other brilliant ideas that will further enhance F2P experience, especially to those people who are coming back:

- Limit skill points to 20. And no more than 10 points spent per tree. Rest is premium.

- Put black bars on sides of the screen. Full view is premium.

- Running is limited to 70% of subscriber's speed.

- You can save your skill points between sessions. For 300 coins. Otherwise skill points are quickbar customization is wiped upon log-out

- You can group with only 1 other player. Full party costs 400 coins (single character)/1000 coins (full account). Because **** MMO in your RPG.

I hope you liked my suggestions, please consider hiring me, I can come up with many other ideas.

Heck, I have no idea why F2P shouldn't pay 10 coins per post on forums.

I already expect this to change within the month.

almost everyone these forum and ingame have very little complaints about the other restrictions because it is reasonable. the quickbars seems to be weird thing to tax. it isnt fluff or vanity, it is a essential part of the game.

my guess they might bump the quickbars for preferred players from 2 to 3 later

Anyone who thinks they are bringing up intelligent points by telling free to play players to pay a subscription need to be permabanned. If they don't want Free to Play players to be able to play the game at a base level, they shouldn't offer it at all.

Seriously, there's a difference between "Pay to access features" and "pay to access control functions." This is ********, plain and simple.

EDIT: Just wanted to make it clear that for players that are TRUELY F2P (never purchased ANYTHING, not even the game) can still have all these crazy limits. Its for players that you are trying to get back (all the players that have PURCHASED the whole game) that I am talking about here. So many F2P models for other games allow players that have purchased the game basically total access to everything except for some non-important gameplay elements like the number of characters and other things I mentioned.

This part of your post is the only thing I really have comment on. Mostly because I feel you are on point with the returning players. "If" you actually paid for the game to begin with and especially for all those that bought the CE version of which I wanted but at the time could not get. I feel at a minimum even though the money you paid is long gone should get the ui elements. However if you sub for one month you will have enough coins for just that and then some. Now don't get me wrong I do not agree with making those specific players sub again but in all reality if you like this game and the potential there then stay the course my man! I personally sub myself and seeing how much money I toss into things that in the end I hate myself for I don't feel that about subscribing to this game. But then that is my opinion and you may feel different.

Quickbars - F2P 2, Pref 4, Sub 6

Hide helmet - lets face it, noone wants to look like a clown, and you dont want people to see what you manage to design

And maybe show name

Last 2 for preferred.

That would solve 80% of complaints.

And, ofcourse, this was known for long time, but noooooooo

Anyone who thinks they are bringing up intelligent points by telling free to play players to pay a subscription need to be permabanned. If they don't want Free to Play players to be able to play the game at a base level, they shouldn't offer it at all.

 

Seriously, there's a difference between "Pay to access features" and "pay to access control functions." This is ********, plain and simple.

You can play it at base level. There isn't one class that will have 20 skills they absolutely need before even level 30. Of those skills some are ones that are very situational that you may never use. Some of them are skills that will be replaced. You don't need your quick travel, stims, mounts and many other things on your bars.

Big suprise that you are gimped a bit in a f2p game when you pay nothing for it. You don't even have to pay for the game. Like I said earlier if you did pay for it then I'd be willing to sign a petition for you to get at least your hotbars. However if you didn't and you aren't even willing to support the game with a few dollars then you have no room to complain.

Big suprise that you are gimped a bit in a f2p game when you pay nothing for it. .

Try League of Legends. Or Guild Wars 2 if you're into another MMO.

I heard both are making money hand over fist. Are you gimped in either?

Played TOR for 6 months, since its release. It grew dull to me, but now that it is f2p, I decided to give it another try. No side quick bars is just ridiculous, anyone saying it is just a 'convenience', obviously has no idea what they're talking about. You can never utilize your class to the fullest when you do not have acces to all of your abilities. I'm fine with it that they charge you for all sorts of ridiculousness, like having to pay to display a title, because it's a f2p model after all. However, when they're going to charge you for something as basic and essential as having full acces to your abilities, that is crossing the line between a good f2p model and a bad one.

I am willing to pay for all the cosmetic crap, but not for something as quickbars... It's just absurd.

Unlock them via the Cartel Market. What is the problem? That is other then wanting every single thing paying subscribers get for free.

because the idea is that someone should play this game F2P and have so much fun with it that s/he willingly starts buying cosmetic stuff, the ability to do more instances a day, getting to play new contend a month earlier etc.

not to make a *cough* DLC *cough* out of already existing game parts, to make people way too annoyed with the game to even give it a try.

the question for returning customers should be "what exciting things can i gain from investing money" not "what have i lost now and have to pay money for"

i cannot speak for anyone but me, but my experience yesterday was:

going online

try to get the quickbars back for 30mins

google it, findign this thread

going to my space ship, flying a space mission, seeing that there are no new ones (or them being p2p)

realizing it is the same game that i didn't like enough to pay for, just now with even less things in it

leaving.

i mean really, who thought that you can attract more paying customers in F2P by giving them a game first thats worse than the one too few people wanted in first place?

Try League of Legends. Or Guild Wars 2 if you're into another MMO.

 

I heard both are making money hand over fist. Are you gimped in either?

Guild Wars 2 is not free to play. Not anymore than any regular PC game.