After almost 3 years playing this game, and finally leveling up my first troopers (vanguard, and a commando). in many cutscenes trooper pulls out a blaster pistol. And in many cutscenes leveling all three of my Bounty Hunters (my second Mercenary is now level 48) pull out a blaster rifle.

Why not allow the classes to equip either one of them?

If a Mercenary equips a blaster rifle, he forfeits abilites such as bombardments, etc. and his second pistol.

If a trooper equips a pistol or pistols, he forfeits his mortar strike ability, and other abilities that were weapon related.

For RP purposes It would fit perfectly.

I'm also a strong believer that the Mercenary, should absolutely be allowed to carry a cannon as well.

This will open up a huge group of player options, increase stability for the GTN, and greatly revamp gameplay in the classes.

What do you all think?

Why not let gunslingers use sniper rifles,or snipers use pistols, and mara/sents use double bladed light sabers? Let the diversity begin, let us choose our weapons of choice.

I'm all for diversity but they're not going to allow everyone to use everything for two reasons. One is balance. Certain weapons deal more damage than others. For example if a Vanguard or Powertech were to use an Assault Cannon or Sniper Rifle, his damage would suddenly go up because the base damage of each weapon type is different. If a Jedi Guardian were to equip a double-bladed saber, his damage would skyrocket suddenly. The only way to get around this is to have weapons that look like something but function as something else. For example, a sniper rifle for Vanguards that functions as a blaster rifle or a pistol for Commandos that functions as an assault cannon. It's a very complicated thing to do and unlikely that Bioware will even think about it. Not to mention some animations are only compatible with some weapons. A pistol, for example, cannot shoot a Mortar Volley.

The second one is that most people use weapons to recognize opponents in PvP. With such a wide selection of clothing available from the Cartel Market, you cannot rely on armor any longer. A Knight could be wearing Trooper-looking or Consular-looking or Smuggler-looking armor, the only way to indentify him as a Knight is to look at his single-bladed lightsaber. But if a Knight were to use, say Relnex's armor and use a double-bladed lightsaber, he would look like the archetypical shadow and would create a lot of confusion among the players. We need a way to reliably identify opponents!

EDIT: What they could do, however, is to enable certain ACs to use the weapons of their mirror ACs. Aside from animation issues, there's no reason a Gunslinger couldn't fire a sniper rifle or vice versa. Or a Commando to use two pistols and the Mercenary to use a cannon.

I'm all for diversity but they're not going to allow everyone to use everything for two reasons. One is balance. Certain weapons deal more damage than others. For example if a Vanguard or Powertech were to use an Assault Cannon or Sniper Rifle, his damage would suddenly go up because the base damage of each weapon type is different. If a Jedi Guardian were to equip a double-bladed saber, his damage would skyrocket suddenly. The only way to get around this is to have weapons that look like something but function as something else. For example, a sniper rifle for Vanguards that functions as a blaster rifle or a pistol for Commandos that functions as an assault cannon. It's a very complicated thing to do and unlikely that Bioware will even think about it. Not to mention some animations are only compatible with some weapons. A pistol, for example, cannot shoot a Mortar Volley.

 

The second one is that most people use weapons to recognize opponents in PvP. With such a wide selection of clothing available from the Cartel Market, you cannot rely on armor any longer. A Knight could be wearing Trooper-looking or Consular-looking or Smuggler-looking armor, the only way to indentify him as a Knight is to look at his single-bladed lightsaber. But if a Knight were to use, say Relnex's armor and use a double-bladed lightsaber, he would look like the archetypical shadow and would create a lot of confusion among the players. We need a way to reliably identify opponents!

 

EDIT: What they could do, however, is to enable certain ACs to use the weapons of their mirror ACs. Aside from animation issues, there's no reason a Gunslinger couldn't fire a sniper rifle or vice versa. Or a Commando to use two pistols and the Mercenary to use a cannon.

The guns never have any effect on DPS. Damage is preestablished per toon. Sniper rifles cannons and blaster rifles have the same stats as blaster pistols. Its why the gunslinger uses pistols. What deals the damage are the class abilities. Not the actual weapons they use.

The guns never have any effect on DPS. Damage is preestablished per toon. Sniper rifles cannons and blaster rifles have the same stats as blaster pistols. Its why the gunslinger uses pistols. What deals the damage are the class abilities. Not the actual weapons they use.

Actually, Sniper Rifles and Assault Cannons do more basic damage than Blaster Pistols or Blaster Rifles. That's why the Sniper and Commando's mirror classes get to dual-wield. In theory the extra damage from the offhand weapon evens things out in the long run.

That said, Pistols and Rifles are still effectively identical, so in terms of mechanical effectiveness there's not necessarily any reason the pistol and rifle-specific ACs (PTs, Vanguards, Ops, and Scoundrels) couldn't use the weapons interchangeably, in theory, and certainly, I'd probably prefer to play an Operative with a regular pistol myself. However, it's probably still not too feasible since they'd have to modify at least a few attack animations to compensate for the wider variety, and BW probably wouldn't see it as very cost effective.

Actually, Sniper Rifles and Assault Cannons do more basic damage than Blaster Pistols or Blaster Rifles. That's why the Sniper and Commando's mirror classes get to dual-wield. In theory the extra damage from the offhand weapon evens things out in the long run.

 

That said, Pistols and Rifles are still effectively identical, so in terms of mechanical effectiveness there's not necessarily any reason the pistol and rifle-specific ACs (PTs, Vanguards, Ops, and Scoundrels) couldn't use the weapons interchangeably, in theory, and certainly, I'd probably prefer to play an Operative with a regular pistol myself. However, it's probably still not too feasible since they'd have to modify at least a few attack animations to compensate for the wider variety, and BW probably wouldn't see it as very cost effective.

Then couldn't they switch some of the animations? Maybe change some along the way (ex: mortar volley takes out a grenade launcher or calls down a mortar strike instead of firing from the gun)? For example, a commando with dual wield pistols would use unload or tracer missle, while a merc with a cannon would use full-auto and grav round, or an operative would use the scoundrel version of cull(forgot what its called) and a smug with a rifle would use cull.

I have always wanted every Jedi to be able to use any lightsaber style and every non jedi to be able to use any blaster style. All they would have to do is make damage to weapons even all across the board and make the current values you have for damage tied to your class that way balance isn't affected, just appearance. Of course they might have to create a couple of new animations, but it would be well worth it for more customization. Especially in the world of Star Wars were different weapon types are diversified everywhere.

I don't know any other games where characters are restricted to just one kind of weapon forever, and being able to switch things up would be quite nice. Although some animations that are already in game would work great. For instance the double bladed saber twirl that's a channeled ability that some NPC's have would work perfect for Master Strike on a Knight that chose to use a double bladed. Then you have moves like Retaliate that's just a stab that would work fine for Maul if an Assassin decided to use a single blade.

As far as identifying opponents in PVP, it really isn't that big of a deal. If it is to you then turn on the little class symbol thingies or just read under their name. All I really do is PVP and I wouldn't have any problems with this. I mean if I see a guy running around shooting flames everywhere with a rifle I'm not going to think it's a sniper

I would love to just be able to use a rifle on my commando without being penalized or ridiculed by my peers.

I like the playstyle WAY better than vanguard, but hate the required weapon type!

I would love to just be able to use a rifle on my commando without being penalized or ridiculed by my peers.

 

I like the playstyle WAY better than vanguard, but hate the required weapon type!

I have leveled and succesfully played a Commando with a rifle, if you are a good player, the damage difference is not going to make a difference =)

Something I was thinking of is having a blaster rifle classified as a pistol. So for all extents and purposes, the item is a pistol but it uses a rifle model and is held like a rifle. If the class is a dual wielding class, the 2nd weapon disappears completely and as far as anyone is concerned the character is just holding a rifle.

This could also apply to lightsabers: have a single-bladed lightsaber model as a double-bladed lightsaber and vice versa. Or a rifle which uses a pistol model and animations, etc, etc.

For example:

Compact blaster

Binds on Equip

Ranged Main Hand

X - Y Damage (Rating X)

<Insert Stats here>

Requires Weapon Proficiency: Blaster Rifle

And uses the model and animations of http://www.torhead.com/item/7PRbHwa/d-203-recon-interceptor, for example.

So you could have an operative with a pistol, even though he has a rifle equipped (rifle with pistol model and animations)

A mercenary with a rifle even though he's dual wielding pistols (pistol eqquiped with rifle model and animations. 2nd pistol disappears)

A jedi guardin with a double-bladed lightsaber even though he has a single bladed saber equipped, so on and so forth.

This way, classes don't need to have any balancing tweaks done to deal with damage offsets to cater for guardians using double-bladed sabers or powertechs using rifles and so on

Adaptive Weapons. Just make an adaptive weapon that changes its base damage according to class.

That way Vanguards or any class could equip an assault cannon, pistol or sniper rifle but would still do the base damage of their class weapon.

I'd love to see this --but the fact is, this game's class/skill/talent system is too "rigid" to allow for it, even leaving aside the money/person-hour costs required for coding the animation changes.

I know --I'm going there, and you can't stop me, so:

Deal with it.

But, if we had a skill system similar to games like SW: G or EVE-Online --no one player is "locked into" any one thing, and can change things up, it just needs time-- then, yeah: My Mercs would be able to fulfill some of their contracts by sniping the mark down from 1km away, and I would smile.

It may seem somewhat backward at first glance --weapons, in this game, are fundamentally "stats-sticks," no more-- but at the same time, the from of those stat-sticks is pretty much locked in vis-a-vis certain aspects of class-balance, especially between the mirrors.

(Just as an aside, didn't Boba Fett --the ur-Powertech, UIVMM-- use a rifle, or at least a carbine, at some point? The EU literature has numerous examples if him sniping some of his marks with a sniper's rifle, too.)

 

It may seem somewhat backward at first glance --weapons, in this game, are fundamentally "stats-sticks," no more-- but at the same time, the from of those stat-sticks is pretty much locked in vis-a-vis certain aspects of class-balance, especially between the mirrors.)

Actually the only class that really uses its weapon for stats only is the sage/sorc. all others have skill damage based on weapon damage. if you switch out your weapon for a lvl 1 green its quite easy to see. and some are more dependent on it then others...a guard/jugg is very dependent on weapon damage as an example.

On the subject, I'd love to see more flexibility. The first time I saw the cannon and fell in love with it i though to myself, "that is a cool tank class!" I was quite disappointed to find out that the healer got the cannon! I assumed that such a massive weapon was for the tanky class...I would prob roll a vanguard if i could use the cannon.

Sentinels and Marauders having a double bladed lightsaber would be very nice indeed. I would love to use a rifle on my commando but cant due to some abilities requiring the assault cannon. Outside of combat or in the same problem comes to light balance.

For this to work, and let full customization apply, they would have to put in a generic damage mechanic for adv class weapons. Meaning if say a sentinel chooses to use a lightsber, and not two, the mechanic would have to double the damage to equal two lightsabers. Also their is physics from the talent tress involved such as the off hand does not hit as hard as the main hand.

Basic realistically I could see this working for all non force user classes. The reason for this animations. They would have to come up with double bladed, single lightsaber animation for each sentinel attack. Just using the sentinels as an example. Same thing if a shadow decided to use two lightsabers. For force user classes it gets a whole lot more complicated. For non force user classes I could realistically see that happening.

Basic realistically I could see this working for all non force user classes. The reason for this animations. They would have to come up with double bladed, single lightsaber animation for each sentinel attack. Just using the sentinels as an example. Same thing if a shadow decided to use two lightsabers. For force user classes it gets a whole lot more complicated. For non force user classes I could realistically see that happening.

They already have that(mostly), Equip Kira with a Single Blade and see all the doubleblade animations convert to the single blade.

Not sure about shadow with 2 sabers though.

Also, for this to work(Purely damage wise), the weapon layout had to look like this:

Vanguard/Powertech: Single Pistol/Blaster Rifle(They have the same stats)

Commando/Mercenary: Sniper Rifle(With stat stick in secondary)/Assault Cannon(With stat stick in secondary)/Dual Pistols.

Scoundral/Operative: Single Pistol/Blaster Rifle(Again, same stats)

Gunslinger/Sniper: Dual Pistols/Sniper Rifle(With stat stick in secondary)(Assault Cannon would just be silly)

Sentinel/Marauder/Shadow/Assasin: Dual Sabers/Doublebladed Saber(With stat stick in secondary).

Guardians and Juggernauts with a doublebladed saber would increase their damage, as it has higher damage by default, of course, they could add lower damage doublesabers for them, which would be a very good thing.

And I would just like to note that, I like more weapon options for the classes, the more customization the better =)

I would love to use a Blaster with my Agent. When i am running around knifing people, it always seems to unwieldy to use a rifle, even if i started to think more of it as Shotgun.

Likewise, if Mercs would get a Rifle, i probably would have picked Merc instead of Powertech.

As for lightsabers.. i'd kill for a single blade lightsaber that counts as doubleblade, so i can be a singlebladed Shadow without gimping myself.

Actually the only class that really uses its weapon for stats only is the sage/sorc. all others have skill damage based on weapon damage. if you switch out your weapon for a lvl 1 green its quite easy to see. and some are more dependent on it then others...a guard/jugg is very dependent on weapon damage as an example.

 

On the subject, I'd love to see more flexibility. The first time I saw the cannon and fell in love with it i though to myself, "that is a cool tank class!" I was quite disappointed to find out that the healer got the cannon! I assumed that such a massive weapon was for the tanky class...I would prob roll a vanguard if i could use the cannon.

couldn't be more false.

Weapon Level is what you're speaking of, not weapon damage.

Weapon Damage is predetermined by the class. It's why the offhand weapon does not do the same damage the mainhand weapon has, despite being the exact same weapon.

Toss a cannon on a commando same level, then toss on a blaster rifle, the difference is so small you literally cannot even notice it. I started using a Blaster Rifle for my Commando, and I truly cannot see any difference what so ever in the damage I am producing.

Compare a Vanguard with a blaster rifle to a Powertech with a Pistol.

Compare an Operative with a Blaster Rifle to a Scoundrel with a pistol.

Damage of weapons are based on the class they are given to, nothing else.

I would love to use a Blaster with my Agent. When i am running around knifing people, it always seems to unwieldy to use a rifle, even if i started to think more of it as Shotgun.

 

Likewise, if Mercs would get a Rifle, i probably would have picked Merc instead of Powertech.

 

As for lightsabers.. i'd kill for a single blade lightsaber that counts as doubleblade, so i can be a singlebladed Shadow without gimping myself.

My Shadow has no issues, none noticable anyways, in using a single over a double saber.

Agreed my point is that it would take a great deal of development to pull this off. Its not as simple as swg where you had one talent tree for all Force users.

The fact you said this, tells me you have no idea how games are programed.

It would take less than an hour to make the modifcations that are pre existing.

All they need to do is copy and paste code between the classes, take classes that would get any buffs from it, put negatives and decrease class weapon value for that weapon when it's equipped, and TADA!

They already have mods out for single player modded versions of this game that allow you to be a Commando with a double bladed Light Saber. If some dude living in his basement can create versions of the game modified like that with minimal effort, I'm sure as hell BW can do the same.

Hell, there mods of the game single player based that have Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine outfits, Naboo Soldiers, even combat mounts that open fire on NPCs.

You're lucky if devs even spend 30 mins to make the patches we get.

Incorrect. DPS is tied to the weapon. A commando with an assault cannon will do more damage than the commando with the rifle, all things being equal (skill, level, gear so on.) Certain skills in Advanced Classes are also tied to 'class specific' weapons. Even though most classes can use 1-2 different weapons, their primary weapon should always be their "Iconic" weapon of that class. While knights can use Virboswords, they do less damage than sabers, and so on.

Even though the Commando's assault cannon does more damage than a Merc's pistol, they do roughly the same dps do to the merc's off hand and how they are designed, same goes with Gunslingers and Snipers.

Vanguards and Powertechs differ here. A pistol has a wider range damage than the Rifle. So the pistol user may hit harder at times, the rifle user will still be within the same dps due to the tighter damage range of their rifle.

A shadow using a single saber will do less damage than a shadow using a double saber, not to mention some skills are not available to the shadow only using the single saber.

Hence the argument for ADAPTIVE weapons. Like adaptive armor, the adaptive weapon would set it's dps to your Iconic Class weapon. I haven't thought about how they will handle dual wielders, but I'm sure Bioware could come up with something accommodating.

Incorrect. DPS is tied to the weapon. A commando with an assault cannon will do more damage than the commando with the rifle, all things being equal (skill, level, gear so on.) Certain skills in Advanced Classes are also tied to 'class specific' weapons. Even though most classes can use 1-2 different weapons, their primary weapon should always be their "Iconic" weapon of that class. While knights can use Virboswords, they do less damage than sabers, and so on.

 

Even though the Commando's assault cannon does more damage than a Merc's pistol, they do roughly the same dps do to the merc's off hand and how they are designed, same goes with Gunslingers and Snipers.

 

Vanguards and Powertechs differ here. A pistol has a wider range damage than the Rifle. So the pistol user may hit harder at times, the rifle user will still be within the same dps due to the tighter damage range of their rifle.

 

A shadow using a single saber will do less damage than a shadow using a double saber, not to mention some skills are not available to the shadow only using the single saber.

 

Hence the argument for ADAPTIVE weapons. Like adaptive armor, the adaptive weapon would set it's dps to your Iconic Class weapon. I haven't thought about how they will handle dual wielders, but I'm sure Bioware could come up with something accommodating.

My Cathar Honor Sword vs Ancient LIght Saber Begs to differ

My Cathar Saber Staff vs my Primordial Dual Saber begs to differ.

The damage difference between same mod dual saber vs same mod single saber, is 5%

And BTW, my Marauders stats with same modded Cathar Honor Swords were identical to with same modded Primordial Sabers.

Cathar Saberstaff is identical to my primordial dual saber.

The difference between blaster pistol, and blaster rifle is less than 5%.

The difference between Cannon and rifle, is less than 5%.

Two blaster pistols do not do equal damage. the offhand weapon is a fraction of the damage the main hand weapon does.

They already have NPC Warriors on Taris for example equipped with dual sabers. They already have NPC Knights on Belsavis that can go between single bladed and dual bladed sabers. They already have NPCs that can rotate between ranged and non-ranged weapons.

SPend time actually paying attention to the game and the weapons in it.

Assailent dual saber has 31-46 base damage before buffs

Assailent Saber has 26-38 damage before buffs

Dual Wield gives 30% bonus to overall damage. Total damage for Marauder wielding two light sabers deals

60-71 damage at level 10

Assassin deals 60-71 damage at level 10 with dualsaber staff

Cathar War Staff deals 60-71 damage for the Assassin.

Commando wielding Blaster Rifle, level 30

No mods

Mantellian Peacemaker

Weapon Damage 63-75

Correllian Bunker Buster

64-87

Per hit, hit for hit, in DPS, that isn't even enough to justify the use of one over another via investments.

Commando Level 11

Correllian Bunker Buster

41-61

10.3 damage bonus

Mantellian Peace Maker

35-56

10.3 damage bonus

level 11 Mercenary

Single pistol

41-61 damage

Secondary pistol damage

7-13

Sniper 23

Unmodded weapons

Mantellian Peacemaker

105-117

Tarisian Head Hunter

114-121

No segnificant boost in damage between either weapons.