In FP's, I guard the healer. Just to prevent problems with adds, if the group isn't really good.

 

This is, it doesn't prevent problems, because the adds always go for the healer, unless attacked or taunted. This happens regardless of the healer having guard or not.

 

The only thing you could say in favor if that stategy is "the healer will have 5% additional damage reduction", but even so I bet melee DPS would probably need it more than the healer.

guard the dps anyways even if dps do not kill adds. If dps dont go kill adds you need to pick them up and the dps will have to tank the elites. Dont worry about them dying just be ready to taunt when the elite go for healer. If the healer is smart he wont heal the "tanking" dps and the elite will run to you and you wont even have to taunt. Keep dooing this untill dps learns the killorder or leaves because of "bad healing" or "bad tanking"

 

As a healer if i get the guard i usually dont say anything unless there´s a OP dps in the group. Then i´ll suggest to give guard to the high dps. Sometimes the tank asks why and you´ll have to explain. If the guard dont shift then i dont care much. An OP dps that pulls agro is easy to heal if he just follows killorder.

I find the most infuriating thing at the moment is the tanks that die instantly and blame the healers and u can't explain that they're in the wrong combat stance etc. Last guy was like 'yeh it's better to do some dps on the side'....eh no ur a tank.......tank

In Reality the guard should be dependent on what fight you are going into.

 

I have played healing/tanking/dps in the operations and in some situations the healer should have the guard.

 

Why? even thought the dps might pull from the mob that they are attacking, its not as important as a healer that might pull multiple ranged mobs at once and its more important to keep the healer from not dying from that (EC comes to mind)

 

During mob fights I guard the healer

 

In many boss fights i guard a melee dps, but there are some fights where the dps is not attacking the boss (adds, mind traps, other bosses) and I will guard the healer.

 

As a healer there have been times I have pulled because I am going all out (all cooldowns i can at the time) to keep people alive and pull because the dps are preoccupied during the fight. Healers have less defensive cooldowns then most dps and if your healer dies, it can usually wipe a group.

 

In Kephess Undying I'll put my guard the highest dps for the first part and then change it to a healer after a little bit, just like in pvp.

 

Theres no set rule, think.

 

Edit: Also I play a scoundrel scrapper, who will sometimes pull at the beginning of a fight EVEN with a guard. What I do now is use half my opening burst moves, threat drop, use the rest. Threat drop moves are instant off the GCD so I can use it in the middle of my rotation, problem is usually solved.

Edited January 20, 2013 by CJAShadow

@CJAShadow, Tell me something.

 

When I'm healing HM EC and HM TfB on my sage, why is it that I rarely (if ever) pull aggro on trash?

 

I may occasionally pull one mob that no one has gotten around to. I hit my stun (or maybe just self-bubble) and shortly thereafter someone takes him back and I can continue healing unmolested.

 

All this without ever. being. guarded.

 

Could it be (perish the thought) that the tanks and dps in my raid group know what they're doing and so don't have to guard me to cover some other failing in CCs, kill order, or threat mechanics?

 

Hmmmm.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Khevar

I'm a level 50 tank in full Rakata. I've almost always guarded the healer, and have no issues. I believe the problem is that you're purposefully taking the aggro from the tank. You yourself said you do. I'd suggest you DPS instead of purposefully off-tank.

Guarding healers is for PvP, any Ops Guild that guards Healers won't last long.

 

I'm a Jugg DPS and I rarely get guarded, since I'm good at popping my aggro dump on CD, and I pull ~1900-2800 DPS depending how much the DPS gods love me taht day.

Most tanks, unless they're in absolute BiS and know their rotations *exceptionally* well aren't going to be dealing 750 DPS, especially not Guardians. You only arrived at this arbitrarily high number because you actually did most of your math wrong.

<snip>

I'm not quoting this whole post but anyone not paying attention to this as utter gospel is a ninny.

There are only a handful of fights in ops where guard should be on a healer the reset of the time if you are doing random HM FP and you are a tank inspect the mDPS, the one with the best gear guard them.

^^^ Yeah, listen to Kitru Edited January 21, 2013 by Khevar

Healer here, there are a ton of bad tanks that play on my server (POT5). I mean, there are some really, really bad tanks in this game. Many hardmodes, I end up tanking because the tank is too lazy or stupid to pull threat on more than two enemies or peel one of the six guys that are blowing up the healer. Hey guys, when I have to heal myself, that's time I'm not healing you. And snippy attitudes about me not healing you when you won't do you job aren't helping either (looking at you tanks that won't try to gain threat and DPS that jumps in before the tank). And let's not even get into people chain pulling when the healer is trying to recover energy.

 

I feel like this is a byproduct of healing companions that never run out of energy, and the laziness of overgeared players.

Adds blowing up healers in flashpoints are mostly the dps's fault. Most of them just go for the highest health mob instead of cutting down the weaker ones first. Tanks can miss adds that peel off when they're trying to land an interrupt. Also, healers standing in the paths of patrols doesn't help anyone. Basically, it all comes down to coordination and adapting to your team.

Kamii, good start for this thread and I seriously hope tanks pay attention to it. I've actually gone through an FP using slash because of such situations (semi-BiS Watchman). As far as TRE goes, asking for people to listen in PUGs is like pissing against the wind. I've taken habit of just saying "someone's at the door" and leaving with an apology if my level of frustration rises to 0.01 pts on scale of 0-100 towards rage quit. 5 BH is not worth having the temperature rise between my (and I guess yours too) ears.

 

Yours,

Ruswyn/Mrachan

Guarding healers is for PvP, any Ops Guild that guards Healers won't last long.

 

I'm a Jugg DPS and I rarely get guarded, since I'm good at popping my aggro dump on CD, and I pull ~1900-2800 DPS depending how much the DPS gods love me taht day.

 

I'd love to see a parse of that 2800 dps... btw Kephess in TFB and the droid in KP don't count

I'm a level 50 tank in full Rakata. I've almost always guarded the healer, and have no issues. I believe the problem is that you're purposefully taking the aggro from the tank. You yourself said you do. I'd suggest you DPS instead of purposefully off-tank.

 

So you're asking to the DPS to .... not DPS ? Come on ! Do you believe that, when I DPS, I WANT TO take the aggro from the tank ? No, I don't, I just try to ... DPS. If the tank cannot keep the boss, that's his problem and he needs to improve. A good tank NEEDS to be able to keep the boss, even if the DPS are giving everything in the first 30 seconds. Some bosses on Denova NiM are asking for this (unless you are overgeared).

Edited January 21, 2013 by Hovergame

I'm a level 50 tank in full Rakata. I've almost always guarded the healer, and have no issues. I believe the problem is that you're purposefully taking the aggro from the tank. You yourself said you do. I'd suggest you DPS instead of purposefully off-tank.

 

nicely said.

 

too many dps think pulling agro is a sign of uberness when it only shows ineptness. when you are over geared than your tank such dps need to "scale" their dps to the tanks ability. this would have been learned in other mmos where skill was more involved rather than easy mode game play mechanics. thankfully we also dont have real time dps meters or this problem would be even more prevalent.

I'm a level 50 tank in full Rakata. I've almost always guarded the healer, and have no issues. I believe the problem is that you're purposefully taking the aggro from the tank. You yourself said you do. I'd suggest you DPS instead of purposefully off-tank.

 

You do realize I'm taking the aggro because I am DPSing. I don't have any taunts or high-threat abilities. I just DPS and the tank loses aggro 90% of the times. If I am guarded that drops to 50%.

nicely said.

 

too many dps think pulling agro is a sign of uberness when it only shows ineptness. when you are over geared than your tank such dps need to "scale" their dps to the tanks ability. this would have been learned in other mmos where skill was more involved rather than easy mode game play mechanics. thankfully we also dont have real time dps meters or this problem would be even more prevalent.

 

1. Aggro in this game is retardedly easy to hold because of taunt mechanics and guard.

 

2. I would absolutely LOVE for them to enable mods like Recount because of the utility of it. It's a great raiding tool and tells you instantly where you, or other players need to improve.

when you are over geared than your tank such dps need to "scale" their dps to the tanks ability.

 

Even when the tank refuses to guard you because he thinks he is awesome and noone will steal aggro? I'm sorry but if someone is being stubborn I switch to "no holds barred" barred mode and hold nothing back.

Please stop this nonsense.

 

I play a combat sentinel with BiS gear and I end up tanking 9/10 flashpoints and operations I join via group finder because tanks actively refuse to put their guard on me. I have stopped bothering trying to explain on a daily basis why they should do this and just do my best to "keep aggro" so they realize they are making a mistake.

 

For those who don't know how threat is calculated:

• An attack has a 1.0x modifier on damage to threat.
  
• A heal has a 0.5x modifier on heal to threat.
  
• Tanking stance gives a 2.0x modifier on damage to threat.
  

 

This means a healer has to do 2x more healing than the damage done by a damage dealer (DD) in order to acctualy "pull aggro". If for example a DD is doing 1500DPS, the healer would have to do 3000HPS...

 

Also for those advocating the healer must have a guard because any adds will target him/her, guarding doesn't in any way prevent this from happening When adds spawn their "threat table" is empty and as soon as the healer casts a heal on anybody the threat generated from that heal is split amongs all the enemies currently engaged. Unless the adds are taunted or attacked they will go for the healer, regardless of guard.

 

So, if it makes no sense guarding the healer who is the guard for? Simple, the best damage dealer in the group.

 

Using my previous example of a DD doing 1500DPS, the tank would have to do more than 750DPS in order to "keep aggro" (disregarding "high threat" abilities and taunts).

 

Now ask yourselves what makes more sense:

• A tank doing less than 750DPS - guard the best damage dealer in the group.
  
• A healer doing more than 3000HPS - guard the healer.
  

 

Amusing fact: I once had a tank tell me to "stop taunting"... on a sentinel...

 

TL;DR

Learn about how threat is calculated - Tanking: A Primer; stop guarding the healers; guard the best damage dealer in group; AoE taunt adds.

 

General rule is to Guard DPS when doing boss fights and Guard Healers during multiple trash pulls.... Only exception I can think of to this rule is the 2nd phase on Terror from beyond as healers will get smacked big time if you don't guard them. Not to mention the DPS are on the tentacles anyways so there not pulling aggro from the boss like a healer can.

 

The only way a DPS is going to get more aggro then the healer during trash pulls is if he's spec for AOE damage, and if your doing a Operation you shouldn't be spec for AOE damage in the first place since this will reduce your single target damage which is more important in a Operation.

1. Aggro in this game is retardedly easy to hold because of taunt mechanics and guard.

 

2. I would absolutely LOVE for them to enable mods like Recount because of the utility of it. It's a great raiding tool and tells you instantly where you, or other players need to improve.

 

Another issue is how OP Sentinels/Marauders are, their burst damage is huge.... Whenever you see people pulling bosses away from tanks its usually this class... I imagine they'll be toned down a bit in a future patch..

Another issue is how OP Sentinels/Marauders are, their burst damage is huge.... Whenever you see people pulling bosses away from tanks its usually this class... I imagine they'll be toned down a bit in a future patch..

 

Doubt it. Snipers can do just as much as mara's, the difference is that there is a much smaller population of snipers and very few of them are actually geared correctly/rotation correctly for their lethality spec. Baddies will be bad i suppose.

Another issue is how OP Sentinels/Marauders are, their burst damage is huge.... Whenever you see people pulling bosses away from tanks its usually this class... I imagine they'll be toned down a bit in a future patch..

 

Gunnery / Arsenal Commandos/ Mercs and SS/ MM Slingers/ Snipers can yank aggro at the start of a fight soon as well.

 

Pro-tip for tanks: Don't use taunt until after you've been through an entire threat rotation. For example, after a Shadow uses a 3 stack TkT with Force Potency and an adrenal (recommended). You'll have aggro for the rest of the fight.

Gunnery / Arsenal Commandos/ Mercs and SS/ MM Slingers/ Snipers can yank aggro at the start of a fight soon as well.

 

.

 

That's why on all the videos showing people 3-4 manning Operations the DPS is always Sentinels or Marauders

 

True any class can pull aggro at the beginning of a fight, but Sentinels/Marauders have a tendency to pull it constantly during the entire fight.

 

But of course people who play sentinels/marauders are going to come in to defend it so they don't get a nerf... Snipers average 1600+ on parsers and marauders average 1700+, ive seen marauders hit as high as 1800+... yeah no discrepancy there, just all snipers are bad players

That's why on all the videos showing people 3-4 manning Operations the DPS is always Sentinels or Marauders

 

True any class can pull aggro at the beginning of a fight, but Sentinels/Marauders have a tendency to pull it constantly during the entire fight.

 

But of course people who play sentinels/marauders are going to come in to defend it so they don't get a nerf... Snipers average 1600+ on parsers and marauders average 1700+, ive seen marauders hit as high as 1800+... yeah no discrepancy there, just all snipers are bad players

 

The point I was making is that any class that has a lot of front loaded/ burst damage is able to pull aggro at the start of the fight. Sents and Maras are most known for it because of their popularity.

General rule is to Guard DPS when doing boss fights and Guard Healers during multiple trash pulls....

 

Really? My god if a tank can't manage more than one mob they must be pretty lame.

 

Sorry but it's true. Even if you can't CC there is more than enough abilities across all of the classes in this game to ensure the tank can maintain aggro.

 

Guard on DPS, ALWAYS

 

As for damage, someone has to take it. If you guard the healer the DPS you just took it off will now get that extra 5% (woooooh big damage!)

Edited January 22, 2013 by Ailie