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So. Ninjas yea?


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I'm not, all but a few runs my least geared companion is better geared than everyone (but me) in the group, so I usually pass on everything that could possibly be useful to anyone in the group or their companions. However, that does not mean I do watch rolls and get upset about ninjas. Now when I get a group in the close to the same gear, I will greed.

 

I even pass on biometric crystals, have over 100 and our guild has between 300 and 400 in the bank. I needed 3 when I first hit 50 on my first toon, but since then I have only greeded until I started worrying about storage space. Still feel like a idiot paying 100k for the first one to make my rakata stim.

 

I am living proof that you can get very well geared without ever using need. If you are nice and treat people with respect, they will want to raid with you. So for 6 months I was doing 3 raids a week on one toon, until I started to get burned out and toned it down to a one group and maybe a guild fun/comm run.

 

While I am too lazy to search your posting history, your post here indicates to me that you're unlikely to be someone who has created a bunch of threads complaining about having loot ninja'd from you by losing a roll to someone in your group who plays a completely different class than you do and wouldn't be able to equip the item that was being rolled on.

 

:)

 

I guess I could refine my point to state that "people who start these kind of ninja complaint threads aren't really doing it to look out for others."

 

And concede that there are those who participate in those threads who have altruism in mind.

 

Still, in the grand scheme of things I find that there are indeed quite a few players who are altruistic. These people sometimes end up being my friends in the game. People I group with regularly. Gets back to my whole point about if a person really wants a particular drop from an encounter like a flashpoint or an operation, using the LFG tool is probably the inferior choice. Finding friends and guildmates to go after the item is the superior choice. Because those people much more often care about you and you care about them. Making it more likely to find people that will help you get the item instead of just rolling on it and dropping from the group after winning it.

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This isn't the correct name for a Ninja, but we were on Cademimu and I was DPS and the other sorc was a healer.

 

He died by standing in the fires at the end like an idiot. The main boss only had half his health gone. I had to try to heal and protect the Tank, heal him, and dodge fire, all while being specced into madness!

 

Needless to say, we won and I didn't even get a thanks, but instead, the good for nothing healer needed on the other willpower item and got it. DID NOT DESERVE IT!

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While I am too lazy to search your posting history, your post here indicates to me that you're unlikely to be someone who has created a bunch of threads complaining about having loot ninja'd from you by losing a roll to someone in your group who plays a completely different class than you do and wouldn't be able to equip the item that was being rolled on.
Not only are you lazy you don't seem to have a clue about human nature, because I have never created a thread complaining about having loot a ninja on this or any other forum. It is also very difficult for me to lose rolls when I hardly ever roll because I pass about 95% of the time. Either you were too lazy to read the post you quoted or you quoted the wrong post.

 

I didn't even start this thread in case you were too lazy to look at that too. :p

Edited by mikebevo
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Not only are you lazy you don't seem to have a clue about human nature, because I have never created a thread complaining about having loot a ninja on this or any other forum. It is also very difficult for me to lose rolls when I hardly ever roll because I pass about 95% of the time. Either you were too lazy to read the post you quoted or you quoted the wrong post.

 

To be fair, most people who are complaining about ninjas and losing loot rolls are only thinking of themselves. Since the complaint thread stems from THEM losing a roll on something. The issue isn't fueled by altruism. It's fueled by people thinking of themselves and what they lost a roll on.

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To be fair, most people who are complaining about ninjas and losing loot rolls are only thinking of themselves. Since the complaint thread stems from THEM losing a roll on something. The issue isn't fueled by altruism. It's fueled by people thinking of themselves and what they lost a roll on.
Well I am not.

 

Personally I could care less about losing a roll, just means if it is something I want that I have to do the instances again to get it. I only get upset when I see someone new trying to play the game to the best of their ability, trying to be social and you can tell scared because they are new and they are playing with three over geared players for a first time in a flashpoint and then you see a jerk need a willpower item and the fresh 50 consular lose the roll.

 

I also don’t see a need for bioware to change the system. It works now with the exception of a few jerks. They change it and make it too restrictive and you end up with a hundred threads complaining about that.

 

I apologize if I came off snide, but you did kind of tick me off with your assumptions.

Edited by mikebevo
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Personally I've stopped looking at what other people roll, either I get something or I don't. If I don't I'll always get another shot.

 

What this thread has done for me, is intensified my belief that a lot of healers and tanks think they are special. and when playing the game it's "their way or the high way".

Edited by johnhughthom
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What this thread has done for me, is intensified my belief that a lot of healers and tanks think they are special. and when playing the game it's "their way or the high way".

 

Imagine those players reactions when Bioware introduces dualspecc, then they are not worth that much since almost every good dps player has a "backup specc"

 

And I mean a option to be able to change specc and buttons with one single command, not use respecc droid and change buttons and gear for half an hour.

Edited by Icestar
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I also don’t see a need for bioware to change the system. It works now with the exception of a few jerks. They change it and make it too restrictive and you end up with a hundred threads complaining about that.

 

Nah, I still beliveve that the community would benefit more with items ending up in the right hands then ninjas that sell them.

 

Those "jerks" that you refer to are quite many nowdays and they ruin alot of positive gamingexperience, especially for those that has done the flashpoints over hundred times and are there to gear up their character.

Edited by Icestar
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Imagine those players reactions when Bioware introduces dualspecc, then they are not worth that much since almost every good dps player has a "backup specc"

 

And I mean a option to be able to change specc and buttons with one single command, not use respecc droid and change buttons and gear for half an hour.

 

I would think you of all folks would be adamantly against dual spec. Because if they do implement that, all those people rolling "need" on items you feel they don't actually need, will finally be rolling need on items they do actually need as they'll have to carry around a whole second set of gear for that backup spec to either tank or heal.

 

And that also means your solution for the loot system ends up being implausible, since the system can't force someone to only roll need on their "class" items when they can immediately switch spec to take on a different role. So DPS rolling on tanking gear will increase. They "need" to mod rip that one enhancement out of it for their tanking set, after all.

Edited by SnoggyMack
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What this thread has done for me, is intensified my belief that a lot of healers and tanks think they are special. and when playing the game it's "their way or the high way".

My main is a healer and I don't tell anyone how to play, nor do I care unless someone is stealing or abusing someone else in the group. Then I don't care what role they are playing.

 

Imagine those players reactions when Bioware introduces dualspecc, then they are not worth that much since almost every good dps player has a "backup specc"
Yeah because tanking and healing is so easy that everyone can do it without any practice at higher level. :rolleyes:

 

If they are decent I will be happy, because that will means I could actually get to do HM TfB on my dps instead of always playing as a healer.

Edited by mikebevo
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I would think you of all folks would be adamantly against dual spec. Because if they do implement that, all those people rolling "need" on items you feel they don't actually need, will finally be rolling need on items they do actually need as they'll have to carry around a whole second set of gear for that backup spec to either tank or heal.

 

And that also means your solution for the loot system ends up being implausible, since the system can't force someone to only roll need on their "class" items when they can immediately switch spec to take on a different role. So DPS rolling on tanking gear will increase. They "need" to mod rip that one enhancement out of it for their tanking set, after all.

 

Then you have missunderstood my point of view. I only want Bioware to restrict those that cant use items on their character to roll need, if you can actually wear it and benefit from it then I vote yes.

 

I would gladly lose roll to someone in the team that can wear the item and benefit from it then to someone that can not and vendor it for cash.

 

Besides in my experience, someone that rolls for offspecc are more eager to ask in the chat then someone that rolls randomly on everything.

Edited by Icestar
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Yeah because tanking and healing is so easy that everyone can do it without any practice at higher level. :rolleyes:

 

If they are decent I will be happy, because that will means I could actually get do HM TfB on my dps instead of always playing as a healer.

 

Actually, to get a team through HMs is not that extremely hard if you are a good dps player. Understanding other roles are part of evolving dps characters to the next level.

 

That is how I think, but then again I have 16 characters and 10 of them level 50s. I enjoyed watching tanks and healers so much that I created new characters to have that role other then to re-specc my original dps characters.

 

I think that a good dps player with dualspecc will get enough training to be able to fill that role temporarily if a tank/healer starts a drama and leaves.

Edited by Icestar
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I think that a good dps player with dualspecc will get enough training to be able to fill that role temporarily if a tank/healer starts a drama and leaves.
It would depend on the rest of the group. I have done HMFP with my dps shadow playing tank and a dps commando assigned healer, I have done them with 2 fairly fresh 50's (still needing gear in a HMFP) and my companion dps healer after the tank quit. So with a decent group a healer or tank isn't even needed in a HMFP. I have even done D7 with a shadow tank, 2 sage healers and my sawbones (just for laughs), so dps isn't really needed etiher in HMFP. However, lets see your never healerd before dps want to be healer get into HM FE with a 13k HP tank. I actually think in guild runs we could heal one of the tier 1 hmfp with a couple Sentinels, I know I averaged 219 hps last night in HM EC on her. D7 would work, I once healed it with only Diagnostic Scan (again just for laughs).

 

Also not all tanks and healer are jerks, I have never quit a group, never been kicked from a group and the group has never quit a hmfp since my first trip into HMD7, the 2nd HMFP I ever did as a fresh 50, did HM BOI no problem, guild run, but I was so bad a the final boss in D7 (and had level 49 gear on) that we quit. I have never gone into another HMFP or Operation undergeared or without a complete understand of my abilities and "when possible" information on the instance. No clue how good a healer I am now, but at one time I considered myself the worse healer in the history of TOR. :o

Edited by mikebevo
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My main is a healer and I don't tell anyone how to play, nor do I care unless someone is stealing or abusing someone else in the group. Then I don't care what role they are playing.

 

I certainly didn't mean to imply all healers and tanks behave that way, indeed the majority of both classes I have played with have been great to group with.

 

Still, I have come across a number of healers who have told other players they won't heal them for perceived poor play or insults. I've never heard a dps say 'I'm not going to fulfil my role in the group by not attacking enemies' or a tank say 'I'm not going to use my aggro abilities, and turn off my tanking form', so why do some healers think it's cool to withdraw healing from someone they don't like?

 

Like I said, not trying to tar all with the same brush, I've a 50 commando healer and sawbones scoundrel myself.

Edited by johnhughthom
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This problem can be solved quite easily:

 

1. Everyone needs on everything all the time and lets the RNG roll decide who gets the item.

2. Tada! No more Ninjas.

 

(Of course, a new loot system that rewards each player individually would be much preferred)

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I don't usually post, but I've been browsing this thread off and on for the past couple of days... I've seen 'loot ninjas' in a few PUGs, but I'm one of those that very rarely rolls need or greed on anything; my Sorc healer is geared enough to run the flashpoints and hard modes that I like to run, so I usually just let everyone else have a go at it... I've even told several groups, when they bring up the loot rules, 'I'm passing on everything; you guys have fun'...

 

However, I've also been on the receiving end of anti-ninja rage: I was running with a PUG in Foundry and a chest piece with Willpower stats popped up... I was either a fresh 50, or just under 50, and the stats on the chest were an improvement on what I was wearing at the time, so I chose 'Need'...

 

I was told that piece wasn't for my spec... I explained that it boosted my Willpower and another stat (Crit, I think), which my spec uses...

 

I was vote kicked for being a loot ninja, even though I don't think there was another Inquisitor in the group...

Edited by Liam_Smith
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I want to change the rolls to 1-49 for greed, 50-100 for need, 75-100 for class specific need rolls (assassin rolling for a double lightsaber, sniper rolling for a sniper rifle etc...) and 50-100 for all others. At least give us a better chance at getting an item we actually NEED over some idiot rolling need on an item he wants

 

This is the best idea ever IMHO. Priority is what we need. If there is a drop "Willpower lightsaber" then Inquisitors (not just Sorcs but Assassins too) get 50-100 if they press Need, other class categories (warriors / bh / agents) get 1-100 roll.

So with this system you just can't blame anyone for ninja.

 

P.S. And ofc I respect people who ask before they press "need". Be polite.

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Then you have missunderstood my point of view. I only want Bioware to restrict those that cant use items on their character to roll need, if you can actually wear it and benefit from it then I vote yes.

 

I would gladly lose roll to someone in the team that can wear the item and benefit from it then to someone that can not and vendor it for cash.

 

sigh. You're not thinking this through. Which is odd since you've been so very vocal on various ninja loot threads.

 

Here's the thing. Your proposed solution would restrict people to being only able to roll "need" on items they can use.

 

But opening the game up to dual spec, means those restrictions go away.

 

And suddenly all those "jerks" that you've railed against in dozens of posts will not be restricted from rolling need on items. Perpetuating the whole ninja loot problem you've been trying to solve. And the real kicker is, they may just say they're rolling for an offspec, but there's no way to prove it. You'll get tons of people rolling for companions still, or rolling for those greedy purposes of selling the item. But there'll be no way to actually even debate the issue anymore because they can just say they're rolling for their other spec.

 

It's really kind of blowing my mind that you would read through all of those other ninja loot threads, read all of those sob stories about people and their experiences with ninjas, and then somehow believe that people would be forthright and honest about their "need" for an item in a dual spec world.

 

It's crazy. Dual spec opens the game up to far more rampant ninja looting. How does that jibe with all of your other posts on the topic of ninjas?

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sigh. You're not thinking this through. Which is odd since you've been so very vocal on various ninja loot threads.

 

Here's the thing. Your proposed solution would restrict people to being only able to roll "need" on items they can use.

 

But opening the game up to dual spec, means those restrictions go away.

 

Sorry mate, you still dont understand. How can you actually say that ninjalooting will increase when the only ones that can roll need are the characters that can use the item? Taking a item that you can use and benefit from is not ninjalooting.

 

This will eliminate all jedis from needing on counsular items, all troopers from needing on smuggler items and so on.

 

Regarding dualspecc, this has been asked for by both me and the community since launch. It will not increase ninjalooting by itself because as it is right now everyone can need on everything so it is no way that implementing dualspecc can increase anything.

 

The ONLY class that will benefit from this is the trooper class since all companions use aim and heavy armor but that is fine with me because that is only 2 out of 16 advanced classes.

 

My suggestion will not increase ninjalooting in any way, it will be a good step to decrease players taking items randomly and benefit the community by giving items to their characters that they can use themselves.

Edited by Icestar
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sigh. You're not thinking this through. Which is odd since you've been so very vocal on various ninja loot threads.

 

Here's the thing. Your proposed solution would restrict people to being only able to roll "need" on items they can use.

 

But opening the game up to dual spec, means those restrictions go away.

 

And suddenly all those "jerks" that you've railed against in dozens of posts will not be restricted from rolling need on items. Perpetuating the whole ninja loot problem you've been trying to solve. And the real kicker is, they may just say they're rolling for an offspec, but there's no way to prove it. You'll get tons of people rolling for companions still, or rolling for those greedy purposes of selling the item. But there'll be no way to actually even debate the issue anymore because they can just say they're rolling for their other spec.

 

It's really kind of blowing my mind that you would read through all of those other ninja loot threads, read all of those sob stories about people and their experiences with ninjas, and then somehow believe that people would be forthright and honest about their "need" for an item in a dual spec world.

 

It's crazy. Dual spec opens the game up to far more rampant ninja looting. How does that jibe with all of your other posts on the topic of ninjas?

 

You seem to think that the suggestion is to restrict people to only rolling need on stuff that is for their class and spec - I'm fairly certain that isn't the case. Considering hybrids etc, that would be completely impossible.

What CAN be done though, and which is probably what was meant, is that you'd only be able to roll need on stuff that is for your class, regardless of spec - so a assassin tank can roll need on anything that has willpower on it, even if it's DPS focused willpower piece, but the powertech in the group can't. If the item has your primary stat on it the need button is available, if it doesn't then you only get greed and pass.

Edited by steave
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What CAN be done though, and which is probably what was meant, is that you'd only be able to roll need on stuff that is for your class, regardless of spec

 

That is correct, what I speak of is a system that simply allow your class to roll need on items your character can use and benefit from regardless of specc.

 

It is also much easier for Bioware to implement then check for specc aswell.

 

Simply : If trooper allow needroll on heavy aim loot, if not then disable need

 

The greed option works perfectly for companions and for other options a player can come up with that does not directiy involve their character.

Edited by Icestar
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They can't make that kind of coding decision in a dual spec world because that heavy armor with Aim as a main stat, is wearable (because it's heavy) by a Knight and a Trooper. And has a defensive/tanking enhancement as one of its mods, which is usable and possibly coveted by a Knight. So when the Trooper in the group is a Commando, and a tanking heavy armor item drops, and the DPS Guardian rolls even though it has Aim on it ...

 

Hey! Dual Spec!

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They can't make that kind of coding decision in a dual spec world because that heavy armor with Aim as a main stat, is wearable (because it's heavy) by a Knight and a Trooper. And has a defensive/tanking enhancement as one of its mods, which is usable and possibly coveted by a Knight. So when the Trooper in the group is a Commando, and a tanking heavy armor item drops, and the DPS Guardian rolls even though it has Aim on it ...

 

Hey! Dual Spec!

 

Now you are making it more complicated then it is, forget about mod ripping.

 

A item has a main stat and that is what counts in my suggestion. I define a item as I have always done in ToR by the stats the item has. If it is a aim item then a trooper/bountyhunter has first pick, if it is a willpower item then a counsular/inquisitor has first chance to get it. That is common sense and how most guilds work and decent PUGs.

 

My suggestion does not involve taking items to rip out the mods, it has simply the entire item in mind.

 

If you want to take a item that is not your stat for simply a mod then I definitly call that ninjalooting, my guess is that most of the community will aswell.

 

It is very, very easy for Bioware to code a loot system that checks what stat the item has and what type it is and compare it with the classes that roll. If a character can wear the item and benefit from it then the need option should be enabled, if not then only greed will be possible.

 

Very simple and very common sense

Edited by Icestar
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