but of course the detractors came along and utterly changed the topic to 'KotOR II sux KotOR rox!' something I almost knew would inevitably happen, so I attempted to end such talk with the basic word 'opinion'.

lol I hope that is not directed at me greander, lasher c, and dale kjs, all posted about which one was better before I went on about 1 over 2, blame them they did it they should get infractions for hijacking threads /jk

my first post were honest it is unfair to say bioware completly ignores kotor 2

people get defensive over this stuff, I honestly have enjoyed this thread, I never get to talk to my freinds about story and characters from kotor I love both games like no other and will talk about them anytime, its sad people cant do it without so much emotion

I just hate when people act like they are smarter than others and people who dont like kotor 2 are just too dumb to get the complex messages, its like mass effect 3 I.T. people who were so smart and the people who took the end for what it was or heaven forbid liked it were to stupid to see what was really going on.

so what do you guys think of celestials retconing the rakata?

...even Canderous, Bastila and the like don't have any closure, they are just dropped off randomly with little or no explanation.

Now you're just being selective. We do pretty much know what happens to many of these character. Enough to fill in the blanks, relatively.

Bastila, particularly, gets a lot of exposure during this series (be it through the clear knowledge of her lineage, her direct appearance in the Consular story, or more) such that we know quite a bit about what happened to her. And even Canderous' legacy comes into play insofar as Jicoln Cadera, the Crusader's Schism, and other bits of Mandalorian politics. So we can't really say that there is no explanation because there's generally enough information given to let us have our reasonable conclusions. The only vacant spot, in terms of getting no sense of the character's future or fate, is Carth but even then, it doesn't take hyper intelligence to generally get a grip on what became of him.

As for the claims about Revan, you should generally be aware that Karpyshan's largest contribution to the game was oversight on KotOR related content and some contributions to the Knight story. So, you say something like "that's what I was talking about" and note that your issue is with the things we presumably don't know but it also comes at the price of pretty much ignoring the fact that we know quite a bit. Or, barring that, it comes at ignoring the direct oversight and contributions of people who worked with the characters to begin with

Pursuant to claims about knowing what happens in the small, short campaign in the unknown regions, I again have no clue what you're speaking over because we have a whole book that pretty much tells us what went down.

So where does that leave you other than an issue with the perceived quality of the content? It seems to me that all these points you're trying to get to have answers. You just don't like the answers given. Which is fine. But you can't demand answers while ignoring them. It's cognitively dissonant.

As a side note: they could have just said "The Exile? Oh, she died." and given you nothing besides a corpse hidden in a cave on Dromund Kaas. Instead we have a woman so tough that she essentially keeps fighting a major threat from beyond the grave for three hundred years. It's pretty clear that without her, Revan wouldn't have had a chance. Remember too that Revan's mental link, bolstered by the Exile, is what generally compelled the Treaty of Coruscant. The woman plays a role in basically ending the Great War even though she's dead. Characterization questions aside, that's not exactly giving her the short end of the stick.

Snip.

My point is that, this is the sequel to and finale of the KotOR franchise, a much beloved franchise, BIOWare repeatedly made claims about how we will know everything about what happened, specifically they claimed they'd spend a lot of time detailing the events that concluded that particular timeline, we are thrown bones to satisfy our curiosity for what happened to so many of our beloved characters from the franchise, not highly detailed depictions of the conclusive events, they and more specifically Erickson claimed we'd know everything about what happened to those people, can you honestly state to me that this is the case? a lot of references are made to the first game but quantity of references and not quality ones that give us the conclusive evidence to know, who went and did what.

What? you think the foresight of Darth Traya is enough to assume the fates of the many people and places we journeyed through?

All I ask for is that the continuing stories let us know with a bit more confidence the fates of those many and wonderful characters, it isn't exactly difficult, I mean one question that burns through my mind is whether or not Darth Marr is a descendant of Visas? will they actually answer that? I'm doubting that.

Which characters? Stop speaking in generalities because each general statement might as well be another hole you need to dig yourself out of. I ask because we know, fairly well, the fates of the KOTOR cast or the general trajectories of their lives. You mentioned Canderous and we pretty much know his story. Bastila? We know in a lot of detail if you put it all together. Mission and Zaalbar? Well enough. And while we don't get to hear of major exploits, we know Juhani returned to the order and that even Jolee maintained some closer connection to them after the Jedi Civil War. Do I need to know their day to day, every single interaction ever to get the general sense of what happened? Nope. I don't even need that for Carth, the KOTOR character who gets the biggest part of the shaft.

Similarly, we've known the fates of TSL's cast for a while as well. And even with TOR, we learn details. We know that Mical becomes considered one of the Order's best historians and leaves an extensive archive in the Cron Drift that the Empire attacked during the war. And we absolutely know that the "Lost Jedi" are considered prominent figures in the Order. Materials on this very site mentioned Visas Marr and her importance in rebuilding the Order, for example. As for a question like "Is Darth Marr a descendant of Visas?"...does it matter that much? Does it keep you up at night? Or, perhaps, can you let implication fill in the blanks for you and have that problem solve itself?

Or better yet, probably consider the larger truth that the name is meant probably as homage. Or even the notion that BioWare might be giving some of these characters space out of respect for Avellone and his writers? They couldn't avoid commenting on the Exile. But they don't need to tell us more than we already know about someone like Brianna or Mical. The only possible person you might have a case to argue for is Atton.

Well there should be no KOTOR in SWTOR (that is either 1 or 2). Just look how they ruined the whole Revan story and his character in SWTOR. It is just ridiculous and sad.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not against small references to both games but they should leave things as KOTOR1 and 2 left them. I will give an example. Revan cult on Dromund Kaas is okay since it doesn't really interfere with Revan's storyline and character while The Foundry / Maelstrom Prison is stupid.

Wow so much arguing over two great games. Why does one have to be better than the other? Why can't they both just be treated as interesting stories that were fun to play?

Anyway to go back to the OP, I was disappointed at how little there was in terms of Kotor II references compared to Kotor references. I'd really hoped to see something on Tython or in the temple ruins on Coruscant that referenced Surik's companions. I mean on Corellia we get the interesting mention of the statues that pay homage to Revan's companions, would have been nice to see some busts or statues in some of the Jedi's places that represented the people who rebuilt the entire Order from the nothing it had become. Regardless what people think of the second game it's the established lore that Atton, Mira, Mical, Brianna, Visas and Bao-Dur re-established the Jedi Order allowing it to be present in this game, you'd think there'd be some mention of them.

Lore's hazy on Bao Dur. Game gives enough to imply that he actually dies during the crash on Malachor. Blame the wealth of cut content for that. Atton too for that matter, since it was originally possible for him to die or to head into the Unknown Regions with the Exile. For what it's worth, lore probably has him with the Order.

Those are really the only two characters from either KOTOR game we never get a grip on in terms of what happens next, as it were.

KOTOR 2: TSL, was sooooooo, boring, it started off with just walking around an empty mine killing things and looking at recordings. Keria is a preachy B****, who does not SHUT UP, god I don't care what think about the force, your evil I get it now SHUT UP, to much talk about 'stance' and stuff like that. Some parts were good, Onderon and Duxon, as well as Telos and to an extent Nar Shadaa, though Korriban was too empty and Dantooie was too short and Malacore WAS. SO. BLOODY. BORING. I once beat Nihilus and then stopped playing rather then finish the game I hate the ending that much.

Nothing in the mods would have fixed this. Was KOTOR generic, yes. Was it fun, yes. TSL, was not that fun. It was also a war in the shadows so almost no one would know about it.

yawn boring nothing new

 

I like how all the kotor 2 fans want so much originality but all use the same reason/excuse for why kotor 2 is the savior of all star wars originality. instead of any examples of why you dont like the characters or their stories you just dismiss it and say it was nothing new so it sucked. its all just oh its so generic and rehashed

I don't care what you think about the characters, and I'm not trying to change your mind or provide any objective reasons as to why I like / dislike them. That was simply personal opinion.

What I DO believe was better is the story in general. I believe the reason was already brought up in this thread. It's a different story from what you'd expect, with many surprises ( if you found some of them obvious, good for you, maybe I'm just dumb like that ) and cool moments. I'm not going to give specific examples because I have very little interest in doing so, and I haven't played the game in a while ; my memory is pretty terrible.

Kreia is probably one of the most intelligent characters produced in a video game. She was so three-dimensional. She had a history and backstory, she had motivations and ambitions, as well as a well laid out belief system that often conflicted with your own. That's what made her a good character. And the reason she was always harping on your decisions is because she took it upon herself to take the exile as an apprentice. That's what a master-apprentice relationship is all about. In fact, I would argue that Obsidian did for her what Bioware did for Revan, rather than the exile...

That being said, there really wasn't much Bioware could do to include her in much of the story seeing as how Obsidian killed her like they killed palpatine in episode VI, or any other TSL characters. Obsidian tied up more loose ends than people give them credit for (save the exile).

Anyways, that's just my perspective.

I don't like that they gave the Exile an actual name. I know why Drew did it but that kind of takes the mystery out of the character. I'll always remember my Exile by another name. But I'm glad that she managed to play an important role in the story of TOR. She even comes back as a Force Ghost, which is pretty cool.

As for the other characters, I think that the little references in lore they got did them justice. Sometimes it's better if we get a mention rather than a full-blown explanation. Leaves more to the imagination in my opinion.