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LegendaryQuan

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Bolster is fine as long as pve gear and naked are a bit worse than partisan. Brings more people and does not tie someone in one aspect of the game. If only now pvp gear was bolstered also to be competitive for pve content but likewise be a bit worse than arkanian it would be really nice for the other side of the table.

 

I'm not sure how it is now -- but isn't the partisan PvP gear better (or at least, on par) with the gear from the Basic Comm vendor? It seems that should be how it works -- as a note, though, the "expertise" added to 55 gear isn't counted as part of the stat pool anymore. Hopefully that helps.

 

As a PvE-focused player who only casually plays PvP, I have no wish to be able to do ranked with PvE gear. I'd just like to be able to stand some kind of chance (when matched up against players of similar skill) to have fun, and maybe work on the PvP gear. I also think the PvP gear should be at least acceptible to do 55 HM FPs (assuming you're in almost full partisan [that's the lowest PvP tier, right?]). The second tier of PvP gear should be acceptible entry into SM OPs.

 

There's a balance here somewhere, and I think they're getting closer and closer, but unfortunately a few nasty bugs popped up when they fixed a game-breaking bug.

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Bolster is fine as long as pve gear and naked are a bit worse than partisan. Brings more people and does not tie someone in one aspect of the game. If only now pvp gear was bolstered also to be competitive for pve content but likewise be a bit worse than arkanian it would be really nice for the other side of the table.

 

They already have experienced it. When WH came out PvE'er were whining on the forms because:

 

Campaign > WH > Rakata > Columi > Tionese

 

There were numerous threads about their entitlement to have superior RAID gear. Fast forward to day where we have the opposite now happening.

 

I have absolutely no idea what the planned numbers are -- but the intention is that even in the "best" PvE gear, we will be at the same level as someone with the worst PvE gear.

 

And, anyone in PvE gear should be at a "disadvantage" to anyone in PvP gear. I agree with reducing the gear gap between top-end PvP and PvP, but there should still be a gap. Before this -- at lvl 50, if you went in with no PvP gear, you stood absolutely no chance no matter what skill level you were. Hence giving out free PvP recruit gear.

 

I've seen a lot of PvPers who only take issue with the bolster problems that BW has admitted to as bugs, and are working on fixing. However, there are a lot of people who don't care to listen when told things are bugged -- either that, or they are upset that PvP gear no longer means you're able to lolsmash everything else.

 

Biowares developers are plain incompetent, that's all. These issues were raised in the PTS, they ignored it allowing it to creep its way into the live game.

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I have absolutely no idea what the planned numbers are -- but the intention is that even in the "best" PvE gear, we will be at the same level as someone with the worst PvE gear.

 

And, anyone in PvE gear should be at a "disadvantage" to anyone in PvP gear. I agree with reducing the gear gap between top-end PvP and PvP, but there should still be a gap. Before this -- at lvl 50, if you went in with no PvP gear, you stood absolutely no chance no matter what skill level you were. Hence giving out free PvP recruit gear.

 

I've seen a lot of PvPers who only take issue with the bolster problems that BW has admitted to as bugs, and are working on fixing. However, there are a lot of people who don't care to listen when told things are bugged -- either that, or they are upset that PvP gear no longer means you're able to lolsmash everything else.

 

Rob Hinkle noted in a dev post yesterday that he 'thought' the intended PvE expertise gear cap was 1332. That's where I came up with that number/range.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6163779&postcount=66

Edited by islander
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Biowares developers are plain incompetent, that's all. These issues were raised in the PTS, they ignored it allowing it to creep its way into the live game.

 

Different issues raised on PTS. Just an FYI.

 

They've even explained that by fixing one bug, they opened others up. Rather rude of you to call others incompetent when you have no idea what happened in the codebase.

 

Quite often you fix a bug, and a new one pops up. Welcome to Software Development. They're constantly working to fix things without breaking other things. If they had months and months of PTS time, and unlimited resources, we wouldn't see bugs. But until they start doing MUCH better financially, to the point where EA will dedicate more resources to their team, we will continue to see bugs that aren't fixed instantly.

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Different issues raised on PTS. Just an FYI.

 

They've even explained that by fixing one bug, they opened others up. Rather rude of you to call others incompetent when you have no idea what happened in the codebase.

 

Quite often you fix a bug, and a new one pops up. Welcome to Software Development. They're constantly working to fix things without breaking other things. If they had months and months of PTS time, and unlimited resources, we wouldn't see bugs. But until they start doing MUCH better financially, to the point where EA will dedicate more resources to their team, we will continue to see bugs that aren't fixed instantly.

 

yes especially when someone absolutly has no clue of what coding means :D so pathetic.

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Different issues raised on PTS. Just an FYI.

 

They've even explained that by fixing one bug, they opened others up. Rather rude of you to call others incompetent when you have no idea what happened in the codebase.

 

Quite often you fix a bug, and a new one pops up. Welcome to Software Development. They're constantly working to fix things without breaking other things. If they had months and months of PTS time, and unlimited resources, we wouldn't see bugs. But until they start doing MUCH better financially, to the point where EA will dedicate more resources to their team, we will continue to see bugs that aren't fixed instantly.

 

I don't need to know what happened. I work as a Software Engineer and I even once worked developing games. If you fix one bug and introduce regressions that is plain incompetence as a software developer. You won't be working for long in Google, Microsoft, Amazon, or any other big company that develops software if you pull what bioware pulls.

 

Naked Bolster was identified in the PTS, it was allowed to proceed into the LIVE game. How is THAT a different issue identified in the PTS?

 

I'll tell you something about game development at most companies:

  1. They manually test everything
  2. Regression tests consist of testers manually playing the game with a list of actions to perform
  3. There is no concept of unit tests whatsoever, the odd developer that actually does unit test code quickly finds it gets erased from the code repository because some other developer broke them and wasn't willing to fix them
  4. There are design changes up till the a last moment
  5. They use in game telemetry to find their bugs they didn't catch with manual testing

 

At no point as a Software Developer should issues be introduced because you fixed a bug. That is incompetence at:

  1. Requirements Analysis
  2. Architecture and Design
  3. Unit Testing
  4. Regression Testing

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Not in my experience.

 

Under lvl 55 WZ are at the moment much more imbalanced than they were before.

 

With the exception of the dreaded lvl 49 pimped twinks, pre lvl 50 WZ before the patch were almost perfectly balanced anyway with everyones hp between around 11-13k HP. When 2.0 went live, you could see people between 18k and 33k HP in the lvl 30-54 WZ. Two hotfixes later, there still is a potential gap of 6-7k HP (23k to around 29K).

 

^^ this right here. My 34 Vanguard had 2010 expertise. BUT, 1 wz later, after hitting 35, upgrading his enhancements, and his 2 color crystals (+41 yellow/orange Hawkeyes FROM THE CARTEL MARKET), it went down to 1990.

 

I have removed the enhancements, and the 2 crystals to try and see what happened, but nothing changed. The only thing that made sense was that I gained a level. Tell me how a system is "working as intended" when you get penalized stats as you level, or wear the better gear? This is laughable....someone walks into a wz with crappy greens they haven't upgraded in 20 levels, and has better stats than someone that actually spends time keeping their gear upgraded.

 

EDIT: I don't even care what the boost is, or about bolster....it's a good concept. But, it should not penalize toons at ALL, for ANY reason. Bolster means to improve, yes (BW's definition anyway)?

Edited by painterwhit
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I don't need to know what happened. I work as a Software Engineer and I even once worked developing games. If you fix one bug and introduce regressions that is plain incompetence as a software developer. You won't be working for long in Google, Microsoft, Amazon, or any other big company that develops software if you pull what bioware pulls.

 

Naked Bolster was identified in the PTS, it was allowed to proceed into the LIVE game. How is THAT a different issue identified in the PTS?

 

I'll tell you something about game development at most companies:

  1. They manually test everything
  2. Regression tests consist of testers manually playing the game with a list of actions to perform
  3. There is no concept of unit tests whatsoever, the odd developer that actually does unit test code quickly finds it gets erased from the code repository because some other developer broke them and wasn't willing to fix them
  4. There are design changes up till the a last moment
  5. They use in game telemetry to find their bugs they didn't catch with manual testing

 

At no point as a Software Developer should issues be introduced because you fixed a bug. That is incompetence at:

  1. Requirements Analysis
  2. Architecture and Design
  3. Unit Testing
  4. Regression Testing

 

Great! So -- PLEASE so me the code you've worked on that has never had problems?

 

I don't really care what experience you've had. You're still rude for calling people you don't know arrogant, especially when you DON'T have ANY clue as to what they're doing.

 

And funny -- I've yet to see Google or Microsoft or Apple or Amazon put out ANY piece of software that didn't have bugs. And often times -- Microsoft introduces more problems when fixing a few. . . .

 

The point is. Humans make mistakes. They don't have the resources to pull together a testing team rivaling that of Microsoft. If you believe you could've done it better, why aren't you working for them? That isn't even me being rude -- I'd seriously prefer someone with the knowledge and experience you claim to have be working for them.

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Having to wear pvp gear on a pvp server while doing pve? What a fashion fax paux. Outragous. It's like wearing black to a wedding ! or bright colors before spring. The horror...

 

You're just being ridiculous. Why should players be forced to grind PvP gear to do open world PvE missions?

 

No, the far better answer is to turn off Expertise in the open world. If that means that PvP gear needs to be adjusted, I'm fine with that. I would prefer honest open world PvP (which occurs in the PvE space!) than giving a ridiculous ROFLstomp advantage to people who grind up in Warzones, smash people doing PvE quests and then smack-talk them like there was actually skill involved.

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Finding PvP a bit more sane since the recent patch, and my de-EXPERTISE'd WH geared Sorc is now better off stat wise at around 25K HP, and 2xxx EXP.

 

I do wonder if the 'balancing' is working as intended as one of my alts has ~22K HP, and one has ~29K HP (+ the Sorc with ~25k HP)...all in the 30 - 54 bracket. Now, the 29K HP character is wearing the level 40 PvP 'tank' set, so I'm not sure if the Bolster system looks at each item and goes 'Oh, you have tank gear, I'll bolster you to the 55 tank level' (so more END, and therefore more HP) vs bolster to a 55 DPS level. I'll need to examine where main stat gets bolstered when I have time. Maybe this ~7K HP difference is "working as intended" - given the different roles of the my characters.

 

TTK, for me, is still mixed. I find games without healers are too fast, and games with healers a too slow - hardly any deaths on the latter. Quite often the two factors combine for a really un-fun game; one side has ~2 healers, the other zero - one side just get burst down over and over, the other gets very few deaths. If we had a PvP matching-making system maybe healer levels would be OK. As it is I guess I'd like to see damage drop by an amount, and healing to drop by slightly more (while still being useful - I have a healer, I don't want to be redundant!).

 

As for Bioware's QA (or not), I do wonder, from experience, whether it is incompetent developers. More likely it's a higher-up Pointy Haired Boss deciding - often by throwing a dart at a calendar - that 09/Apr would just be the *perfect* time to release the expansion, regardless of any feedback by the development team about the infeasibility of it. :rolleyes:

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Great! So -- PLEASE so me the code you've worked on that has never had problems?

 

I didn't say my software never had problems. But I can say that any code I write today will not regress identified issues.

 

I don't really care what experience you've had. You're still rude for calling people you don't know arrogant, especially when you DON'T have ANY clue as to what they're doing.

 

This sort of wishy washy accountability is why we have problems. You think the shareholders are going to forgive minor mistakes when they don't know how difficult it is to write software that is reliable, fast and works. They will judge me as incompetent which is fine because if I make an easy to correct mistake it is my fault. I would then pour my heart and soul into fixing whatever I did wrong to prove to the shareholders that I have some competency in what I do.

 

And funny -- I've yet to see Google or Microsoft or Apple or Amazon put out ANY piece of software that didn't have bugs. And often times -- Microsoft introduces more problems when fixing a few. . . .

 

You're right they do make mistakes. And what do they do? They never let them happen again. When a customer tells them something is completely broken in a beta, they don't ignore it.

 

The point is. Humans make mistakes. They don't have the resources to pull together a testing team rivaling that of Microsoft. If you believe you could've done it better, why aren't you working for them? That isn't even me being rude -- I'd seriously prefer someone with the knowledge and experience you claim to have be working for them.

 

Why am I not working for Bioware, when Bioware can pay my six digit salary and give me free reigns to completely change everything about their studio, then I will work for them. Until then, their 5 digit developers contract is not appealing, nor is the powerlessness to dictate to the producers the way this game is going to be developed.

Edited by Yeochins
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  • Dev Post
As others have said, please address the empty slots issue as well. Don't put in a fix for a problem you're finally acknowledging (pve being better than pvp gear) and then fail to address another big issue where people have to rip stuff out of their gear and have empty slots to get best stats.

 

I'm going to check these forums tuesday/wednesday, and if the system isn't fixed, and if it still punishes those who ground their gear out, I might finally pull the plug on this game.

 

The issue of empty Modification slots Bolstering incorrectly is a bug and will be fixed on Tuesday with Game Update 2.0.1. The delay in my response is that I wanted to be sure that it was a bug and when exactly it would be fixed so I could report that information to you guys, hope that helps.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

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The issue of empty Modification slots Bolstering incorrectly is a bug and will be fixed on Tuesday with Game Update 2.0.1. The delay in my response is that I wanted to be sure that it was a bug and when exactly it would be fixed so I could report that information to you guys, hope that helps.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Thanks for the continued communication, Eric.

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The issue of empty Modification slots Bolstering incorrectly is a bug and will be fixed on Tuesday with Game Update 2.0.1. The delay in my response is that I wanted to be sure that it was a bug and when exactly it would be fixed so I could report that information to you guys, hope that helps.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Thanks for the communication Eric, while frustrating the fix will be next week, the information is appreciated.

 

PS: I reserve the right to go 5150 on the forums if in fact the fix either A) Breaks bolster more or B) doesn't fix it at all.

 

:D

Edited by Pistols
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The only thing they need to do is remove it, the complete bolster. It broke the game multiple times now, still nobody fixes it. And why does it need to take so long to fix a bug. Shut down the servers and solve it end of story. Ive been grinding my *** of to get better gear and what do i see. People with better stats then me and they prolly just do pve. Edited by DarkVasilia
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Its not just bolster thats screwing PVP its also the new alacrity changes basically Bioware now gives players a legit method of running a accelerated process.

 

And of course that obviously is the best method to promote a balanced game.

 

Expertise has and always will unbalance the game, PVP shouldn't be about gear it should be about the skill of the players and their team.

 

All the elements that unbalance the game should be removed and a proper baseline set to balance the game again, you don't bork the entire game to make poorly engineered elements work you remove them, you made alacrity basically the only way to go, and with every patch push pvp further and further out of balance in a attempt to bring in more gear with ever higher stats which pushes the game ever further away from the balancing point.

 

There should be armour you can pve in and pvp in, a crafting system and a economy thats actually worth a damn and PVP thats balanced and at a pace thats enjoyable for the player thats based on skill of the player and their team not the gear they are in.

 

Also matching should also try to form teams where each team has similar ammounts of healers or none at all on both sides.

 

Its long overdue Bioware wake up and start making some serious inroads into the enginering shortfalls of this game and turn this single player game with multiplayer, and into a MMO as it should have been.

Edited by Hawk-Firestorm
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Just kind of curious on the actual notes that were discussed about removing expertise from WH and EWH gear. I noticed all of the WH and EWH relics still currently have all of their expertise values on them. Is this an intentional exclusion, similar to the expertise crystals, and not included on the notes, or an oversight when removing expertise from WH and EWH gear?
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Just kind of curious on the actual notes that were discussed about removing expertise from WH and EWH gear. I noticed all of the WH and EWH relics still currently have all of their expertise values on them. Is this an intentional exclusion, similar to the expertise crystals, and not included on the notes, or an oversight when removing expertise from WH and EWH gear?

 

Well, unlike the crystals, having relics (EWH, WH) with expertise doesn't hurt you in the bolster equation. Having expertise crystals in your weapons does hurt, because the bolster system assumes if you have ANY expertise in an item at all, it won't be bolstered appropriately.

 

Basically, the system is binary. You either have a PvP item to bolster, or a PvE item to bolster. Mixing results basically results in a self nerf.

Edited by islander
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So what is the correct answer, does [Expertise] work outside of warzones or not?

 

In all fairness to BW, you could have easily tested this yourself. You wear your Expertise gear. Have a friend wear all their PvE gear. Fight each other in an OPvP area with no Bolster. Evaluate the results.

 

I'm certain you could have accomplished that simple task and discovered what you desire to know instead of wasting your time, Customer Service's time, and even my time in reading your rant and replying to your post.

 

 

Awfully long post for an "easy" fix. At this point they should just eliminate expertise and change Partisan/ Conqueror to Arkanian/ Underworld on the pvp vendors. Keep the costs in wz comms the same, as well as the trade in mechanic and be done with it. Then they can have their balanced game where everyone can do all of the content all of the time w/o any real work involved.

 

In the end, I think this is the solution. But we shall see if Rob and Alex can stabilize things.

 

 

I think it would be acceptable, if underworld/arkanian gear (or w/e the names are), performed at the very least, 30% less better than pvp gear.

 

But this idea flies in the face of Bolster's purpose, which is to put everyone on an equal footing for the most part when they PvP. 30% less effectiveness is not equal by any standard...it's not even in the ballpark.

Edited by DarthOvertone
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Guys, what's the BiS now for 30-54 bracket? Green implants/earpiece + some campaign/blackhole stuff gave me the best stats so far, on lvl 53, but bonus damage is too low. My smashmonkey barely hits 6k. Looking for advice (no trolling, serious things here).

 

Saw a jugg today, he has 36k hp and 30 lvl :eek:

Edited by Taankjr
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But this idea flies in the face of Bolster's purpose, which is to put everyone on an equal footing for the most part when they PvP. 30% less effectiveness is not equal by any standard...it's not even in the ballpark.

 

Actually no.

 

A dev (Hinkle) has stated that the idea (he thought, he wasn't at the office) was that the best PvE would bolster you up to around 65-75% of maximum expertise. It's a recent dev post.

 

PvE gear gets its main stats (including endurance) bolstered which make them better off in that avenue. It's a trade off but everything I've read recently from yellow posts is no, the intent is not to completely equalize the gear sets. It's to allow them to use their better pve gear safelly in warzones, instead of having to use that terribad recruit set - like 1.7 and before it.

 

In this aspect, it IS a buff for PvEers with no PvP gear, because instead of having 70% of max expertise and awful gear, now you have 70% with your best PvE gear.

Edited by islander
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Well, unlike the crystals, having relics (EWH, WH) with expertise doesn't hurt you in the bolster equation. Having expertise crystals in your weapons does hurt, because the bolster system assumes if you have ANY expertise in an item at all, it won't be bolstered appropriately.

 

Basically, the system is binary. You either have a PvP item to bolster, or a PvE item to bolster. Mixing results basically results in a self nerf.

 

Under that logic, shouldn't the earpieces and implants have been treated the same as relics? I understand why the changes were implemented, and actually am all for the changes compared to a recruit set, I was just curious to the wording of the notes and the lack of removing expertise from that one particular piece of gear, in this case being the relics.

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Under that logic, shouldn't the earpieces and implants have been treated the same as relics? I understand why the changes were implemented, and actually am all for the changes compared to a recruit set, I was just curious to the wording of the notes and the lack of removing expertise from that one particular piece of gear, in this case being the relics.

 

They probably tried, and failed for whatever reason :D

 

Or, it could simply be bolster handles the relic slot differently then the rest, which actually would make sense, when you think about it. Relics are basically RNG proc buffs now, whereas before they WERE actually like the other slots

Edited by islander
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The issue of empty Modification slots Bolstering incorrectly is a bug and will be fixed on Tuesday with Game Update 2.0.1. The delay in my response is that I wanted to be sure that it was a bug and when exactly it would be fixed so I could report that information to you guys, hope that helps.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Thank you very much for the response, Eric.

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and you know what? If 172 PvE gear sets result in people only bolstering to 1300-1400 in warzones, and that's their ceiling - I'm perfectly good with this. Scale back 169-166-163 down to an eventual minimum of 1000 (think recruit set) and then no 'full time' pvper should have a problem with this.

 

agreed

Edited by Faltun
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