Now guys,scrapping is the thing I did from lvl 10,it's my favorite and only spec and I can kill anyone 1vs1,but I am annoyed by several things.

Back Blast in PvP absolute nightmare to use if the target is mobile with a speed buff,sometimes it starts the spell GIVES FULL GCD or even 2-3 and doesn't do the animation because the target moved,this is broken and need to be fixed by making backblast activatable from anywhere in pvp.

Disappearing Act is broken and simply doesn't work with companions especially in world pvp where without Disappearing act + rocket boost it wouldn't have worked 99% of the time even with careful companion management.

Sustained damage is a joke,no ranked team needs scrappers because tanksassins are FAR FAR better at stealth roles and we cannot dream to outdamage marauder/pt,I'm not a PVE player but from my very limited experience u should really spec dirty fighting for that because scrapper really doesn't cut it.

Burst Damage: currently the single best thing we have but as the gap closes 1.6,it's going to be in a big decline the next couple of months.

I know that I'm hoping for too much because after all we don't have shiny lightsabers but mby you could fix 1 or 2 things,but seeing what became of commando/merc I don't have my hopes up.

Burst Damage: currently the single best thing we have but as the gap closes 1.6,it's going to be in a big decline the next couple of months.

what do you mean by this? i haven't seen anything in the 1.6 patch notes about class balance changes.

you just said it yourself, you can pretty much kill anything 1v1. but you want the ability to literally 1v1 anything AND do sustained damage similar to other damage classes? wow, you must be kidding. you have the most powerful opener in the game, and pretty much a billion stuns. i've seen plenty of good teams run with scrapper / concealment, and no their role is not to dps. they can kite for days and play safety like the good little pansies they are

stop complaining and asking for everything for your class. next, you'll probably start begging for heavy armor and guarding.

if you want sustained dps, go roll a sustained dps class.

...you have the most powerful opener in the game....

Among others, there's this ability called "Smash", You may have heard of it.

I like your (unfounded, but let's carry on) claim that scrapper is actually designed as a non-dps, dps class, and so should be content to be incapable of killing anyone. Nice concept.

Though it totally contradicts the first part of your post where you say they can 1v1 anything. Which is true, so long as Anything has no clue.

Not really a coherent contribuition, overall. I take it you've played neither scrapper nor concelament at 50.

Among others, there's this ability called "Smash", You may have heard of it.

Smash is not, technically, an opener.

Smash is not, technically, an opener.

Granted, but you eat it straight after the initial leap without being able to do much about it. In a list of OP abilities, Shoot First must be down at around, oooh, 34? Just ahead of Dodge and behind Dispatch.

Granted, but you eat it straight after the initial leap without being able to do much about it. In a list of OP abilities, Shoot First must be down at around, oooh, 34? Just ahead of Dodge and behind Dispatch.

Yes, he can tag another person with Crush, but it's not unlike like saying that you also get stunned when you break the shield that a passing bubblestun Sorc has placed on the Smasher. Third person factor.

And yes, you can do something about it. On my Commando, I hit Knockback by reflex. 9/10 smashes don't touch me (well, unless it's multiple a-holes), because the jump itself is less than 1 sec, and you have an at least .5 sec window to counter it. And I play at 200MS.

About Shoot First - I also play a Concealment Operative. My only wish is for more mobility, and, perhaps, some extra utility. It's not Shoot First that is/was scary. In 1.1 it was the stunlock combo. With consistent 4-6k "yellow" hits. I don't think an opener that has CC on it should be particularly large. It should be an either stun opener, or a spike opener, or something in the middle. That said, I do think that Backstab/back blast needs to have its cooldown reverted, or, perhaps, even reduced because it's a positional skill and requires setup.

Back Blast in PvP absolute nightmare to use if the target is mobile with a speed buff,sometimes it starts the spell GIVES FULL GCD or even 2-3 and doesn't do the animation because the target moved,this is broken and need to be fixed by making backblast activatable from anywhere in pvp.

I agree that if they move it CAN glitch, but it doesn't often. And no. I don't want people running around using BACK Blast in front of people. Just no.

Disappearing Act is broken and simply doesn't work with companions especially in world pvp where without Disappearing act + rocket boost it wouldn't have worked 99% of the time even with careful companion management.

I completely agree, it is bugged, BUT if you cleanse and then use DA it works more often.

Sustained damage is a joke,no ranked team needs scrappers because tanksassins are FAR FAR better at stealth roles and we cannot dream to outdamage marauder/pt,I'm not a PVE player but from my very limited experience u should really spec dirty fighting for that because scrapper really doesn't cut it.

If you want DOTs go to Dirty Fighting. Thats why the tree is there.

Burst Damage: currently the single best thing we have but as the gap closes 1.6,it's going to be in a big decline the next couple of months.

 

I know that I'm hoping for too much because after all we don't have shiny lightsabers but mby you could fix 1 or 2 things,but seeing what became of commando/merc I don't have my hopes up.

Overall we are in a good place. We aren't OP, but have a hard learning curve. If played well, we demolish anything in our path. If it's a bad player, well... we die. Hard. Also, I haven't seen any class balancing threads for 1.6, but I might have missed something. Posting the link would be helpful. Sorry if I seemed rough, I just don't want this class to be buffed or nerfed. I love it where it is.

you just said it yourself, you can pretty much kill anything 1v1. but you want the ability to literally 1v1 anything AND do sustained damage similar to other damage classes? wow, you must be kidding. you have the most powerful opener in the game, and pretty much a billion stuns. i've seen plenty of good teams run with scrapper / concealment, and no their role is not to dps. they can kite for days and play safety like the good little pansies they are

 

stop complaining and asking for everything for your class. next, you'll probably start begging for heavy armor and guarding.

 

if you want sustained dps, go roll a sustained dps class.

Lol, you need to get over yourself.

Calling scrapers pansies. Tell us which class YOU play, I guarantee its skill requirements are nowhere near what it takes to be a good scrapper.

Pansy calling a true class a pansy. Ppl make me sick.

Smash is not, technically, an opener.

Enrage > Force Leap > 8k Smash. All doable in like 2 secs time. Pretty close to an opener, and then spam vicious slash to lower the cd and rage cost on smash making your next one free and 8k again within seconds.

Scrapers have Shoot First and then Back Blast, both with fixed cooldowns that we can't spam other abilities to lower the cd or energy cost of, and also can't make it a 100% guaranteed crit, nor ever come close to a single hit of that size.

Smash is a much better opener any way you look at it.

With consistent 4-6k "yellow" hits. I don't think an opener that has CC on it should be particularly large. It should be an either stun opener, or a spike opener, or something in the middle.

Then you do realize a scrapper loses his edge if you tie out that big hit, right? I can definitely see what you mean, as I play other classes to and can understand the frustration, but then a scrapper would need to hit even HARDER outside of stealth, bc where were at right now wouldn't cut it. My full WH op usually only hits as high as 4400-ish on a full WH opponent. Other classes, assassins included, can crit over 7k with their abilities. A goods rapper isn't the guy who opens on a person with 50% hp, he's the guy who is most of the time out of stealth, taking out who he needs to, cc-ing, locking down healers, etc. that "big" opener isn't being used all the time, and in some cases needs to be to give him an edge.

Scrapers are sitting ducks as far as defense, so they need to do what they can, when they can. You say take out that one big hit, I say then buff our other core abilities bc we need to make up that damage from someplace else, bc we don't carry a 7k crit with us by using ANY attack I've seen. Highest I've ever hit was 6100 on my Op (1.5) and it was against a dude with 0 expertise.

Dunno, maybe I'm not a very good Operative, but I usually target flanks, sneak up on comfily-setup Slingers/Snipers, assist focusfire. Worked out for me so far. Not mentioning ninja-caps and node defense, when needed.

Heavy-duty melee is for Marauders, Tankasins and their like.

Yes, he can tag another person with Crush, but it's not unlike like saying that you also get stunned when you break the shield that a passing bubblestun Sorc has placed on the Smasher. Third person factor.

No third person required, or ramp-up time. For a sent, Combat Focus (instant, self-cast, 1min cd) gives you 4 singularity, then you leap and Force Sweep for the big crit straight off the bat any time in the next 20s or so (forget how long the singularity stack lasts for). Hence the comparison to an opener. Then use Force Stasis or Force Exhaustion to build up to the next 4 singularity stack, as you described with Crush for a SW..

1.1 isn't really relevant to where scrappers find themselves now. Would also point out that Shoot First can only be used from stealth, so when we're stuck out of stealth we can't use it, unlike abilites that can be used on cd of a handful of seconds. We can sacrifice our best cd (Disappearing Act) to get off another, but that's a big risk to take, and then it goes on a long cd so no escapes or extra Shoot Firsts until it's back.

edit: clarity

No third person required, or ramp-up time. For a sent, Combat Focus (instant, self-cast, 1min cd) gives you 4 singularity, then you leap and Force Sweep for the big crit straight off the bat any time in the next 20s or so (forget how long the singularity stack lasts for). Hence the comparison to an opener. Then use Force Stasis or Force Exhaustion to build up to the next 4 singularity stack, as you described with Crush for a SW..

 

1.1 isn't really relevant to where scrappers find themselves now. Would also point out that Shoot First can only be used out of stealth, so when we're stuck out of stealth we can't use it, unlike abilites that can be used on cd of a handful of seconds. We can sacrifice our best cd (Disappearing Act) to get off another, but that's a big risk to take, and then it goes on a long cd so no escapes or extra Shoot Firsts until it's back.

Shii-Cho Zen gives Sents a full stack. Combat Focus is for Guards. And no, I still can't classify Smash as opener. It's a followup. Charge is an opener/setup. Shoot First is an opener/setup. Backstab is a followup, Smash is a followup.

But I do agree that OPs/Scoundrels need to have better combat stealth, and some combat cooldowns reduced. Frankly, I think something like Force Camo belongs to OPs/Scoundrels more than it does Marauders.

tbh i would be fine with a short 4 sec camo that marauders get and increase disappearing act cd back to 2 mins to compensate

But all in all i am fine with the class as is, you do need a lot of gear behind them to make them effective, but once you get there, you can take out the most BiS/geared/ w/e class in a few seconds, personally ive killed a BiS jugg in 7.5 seconds.

...A good scrapper isn't the guy who opens on a person with 50% hp, he's the guy who is most of the time out of stealth, taking out who he needs to, cc-ing, locking down healers, etc. that "big" opener isn't being used all the time ...

OMG. You don't know how good it feels to hear someone else say and realize that. It rings very true, and i get really sick of seeing dps'ers on my server sitting around in stealth waiting for a perfect oppertunity. (For those that do it, that is not helping the team effectively people!!!)

Heavy-duty melee is for Marauders, Tankasins and their like.

Thats all well and good, and i do the other things you mentioned as much as possilbe. But sometimes, alot of times, there is no other real option that will help the team other than heavy duty melee. Especially against good oppenants, or in rateds.

... And no, I still can't classify Smash as opener. It's a followup. Charge is an opener/setup. Shoot First is an opener/setup. Backstab is a followup, Smash is a followup. ...

You can hit Zen/combat focus, and simply walk up to someone, and lolsmash them (not auto crit, but will still hit reasonably hard, almost as hard as shoot first. Dont forget shoot first isn't auto crit). Does that then make it an opener? Smash requires 2 abilitys to make it hit so hard, just as shoot first requires 2 things also (stealth and being behind target).

The point is it's just argueing semantics about titles the game hasn't even given these abilitys. The reality is smash is just as easy, if not more easy to use than shoot first, hits harder, on a shorter cd. They both fill the same role, and that is burst dps, regardless of the descriptive title anyone has given them, so the comparison is fair between them.

If your the same person who posts alot in the guardian forums, i have alot of respect for your opinions and believe your a sane voice of reason over there sometimes, and don't view this as an attack. I just think the comparison between those abilities is more than fair.

I would love to see a 'force camo' type of ability on a shortish cd granted to Scoundrels at lvl 50. I think it's just what we need to put us up at the level of dps that vg/pt/sent/maras are capable of in pvp.

See, this is the HUGE problem, the other stealth class (I've played a scoundrel for a year now, mainly scrapper/dirty fighting and occasionally healing) and after rolling a shadow as well, its very clear that the shadow excels in every role over the scoundrel, infiltration's burst DPS is higher then a scrapper's while barely relying on stealth, for shadow's, stealth is a useful tool, for scrappers, its a crutch. You can throw ANY argument out there where you think a DPS scoundrel out performs a class in a certain role and I will easily show you the flaws in your agument because I have played every comparable class to 50 and geared it. The ridiculous argument that scrappers don't shine until they are geared is complete and utter stupidity, no class does very well until they are geared. Scrappers don't control their opponents any better then a shadow does either so throw that stupid argument out the window, play the class before you pull this crap out of your butt please, and play it for real, not the occasional warzone where you face a recruit geared or PvE geared opponent or prey on 50% opponents all the while not helping your team in the least bit.

So in short, stop saying the class is fine because you CASUALLY pvp/pve with it or have only seen it played with it's "billions of stuns". I guarantee most of you defending the class saying its fine haven't played it thoroughly enough to see it's flaws. It lacks sustainable DPS outside of stealth as a scrapper and the dirty fighting tree throws out subpar DPS compared to any other class in PvP as well as PvE (Any DoT spec excels compared to dirty fighting in PvE)

I'd be happy if it was easier to get back into stealth when disappearing act is on cool-down. Perhaps a 3 second cast ability that removes you from combat, so that you can re-stealth. It can feel like a lifetime hiding behind a pillar and waiting to exit combat after finishing someone off.

Agree.

I'd be happy if it was easier to get back into stealth when disappearing act is on cool-down.

Yeah, pet hate.

I'll just stand in the corner here, don't know how long for, nobody come around the pillar please. Wonder how the fight's going? Have I got any cigarettes left to pass the time? Did I leave a dot on someone that lasts for 5 minutes?... Akaavi or Risha, Risha or Akaavi?.... Did I turn the gas off before I left the freighter?.....

Oh Frack it, Disappearing Act's off cd now I'll use that.

...aaah, freaking stealth blinked blue just as I pressed DA. Must kill marauders.

Yeah, pet hate.

 

I'll just stand in the corner here, don't know how long for, nobody come around the pillar please. Wonder how the fight's going? Have I got any cigarettes left to pass the time? Did I leave a dot on someone that lasts for 5 minutes?... Akaavi or Risha, Risha or Akaavi?.... Did I turn the gas off before I left the freighter?.....

 

Oh Frack it, Disappearing Act's off cd now I'll use that.

 

...aaah, freaking stealth blinked blue just as I pressed DA. Must kill marauders.

LoL story of my life

Would it be that bad to grant us a ability that get's us away from combat ? Channeled skill that takes 5 or even 15 seconds, any damage etc cancels the skill.

Felchette round gives us 30% armor ignore, how about give that effect to you, but also lower armor of the target you hit with it by 20% for everyone. That means your group members can have that slight 20% armor pen boost and you'd have total of 50% armor ignore for the duration for the target. This would at least by some extend boost the scrappers value in a group.

Flying fists can only happend every 10sec, it should be like every 3sec

Vital shot should somehow improve our damage or something to the target. Maybe every crit of vital shot tick could give us some energy ?

Enrage > Force Leap > 8k Smash. All doable in like 2 secs time. Pretty close to an opener, and then spam vicious slash to lower the cd and rage cost on smash making your next one free and 8k again within seconds.

 

Scrapers have Shoot First and then Back Blast, both with fixed cooldowns that we can't spam other abilities to lower the cd or energy cost of, and also can't make it a 100% guaranteed crit, nor ever come close to a single hit of that size.

 

Smash is a much better opener any way you look at it.

i really, really wish people would stop posting this false information. Is smash OP? Probably. But no one, regardless of how geared, would hit for 8k with an opener enrage-->FL-->smash. A lucky crit with that rotation may hit for 4-5km, maybe (on an ungeared person). Now if i have 5 stacks (through choke or crush), then yes, 8k is possible thou extremely rare. I hit for 5k consistantly, crit in the 6k range often on ungeared/light armor folks and once in a wz MAY get a 8k smash. but thats usually against ungeared folks in pve gear. No way your getting those numbers without crush/choke building shockwaves, which takes time to build..

Well i am lvling a scrapper scoudrel, just returned to the game, i noticed little has changed when it comes to pve wich is what i like to do, so im to assume i simply cant do the harder pve content due to my build being seen as complete garbage ? seems sad such a great class is reduced to burst damage and pvp .

there's a few recent threads on the issue.

the general consensus is this: no, you are not as OP as some other melee classes (watchmen/combat sentinels, assault vanguards), but you aren't completely useless if you're a good player.

scrapper needs a few buffs and tweaks, and other classes probably deserve a nerf, but you are certainly capable of completing raid content as a scrapper.

i really, really wish people would stop posting this false information. Is smash OP? Probably. But no one, regardless of how geared, would hit for 8k with an opener enrage-->FL-->smash. A lucky crit with that rotation may hit for 4-5km, maybe (on an ungeared person). Now if i have 5 stacks (through choke or crush), then yes, 8k is possible thou extremely rare. I hit for 5k consistantly, crit in the 6k range often on ungeared/light armor folks and once in a wz MAY get a 8k smash. but thats usually against ungeared folks in pve gear. No way your getting those numbers without crush/choke building shockwaves, which takes time to build..

Eh, Singularity stacks to 4. Enrage gives exactly 4. Charge gives 10% damage bonus via Vindicator set. The only thing that you don't have is a Sunder stack, which doesn't make an enormous difference anyway.

But yeah, 8k is high-Expertise+high Power+potentially red Warzone buff vs a low-Expertise, low-armour target. Not something you'd see often - or ever - if fighting against geared enemies.