I still dont get why people want these back. Probably just to finish the achievements. The gear from those is irrelevant cause you get random 246 in NiMs, so only the UCs would be farmable, nothing more.

May I direct you to the OP for answers to questions regarding both why we want these ops back as well as in what manner we want them back.

Furthermore, everything you said here is literally the objective point of endgame raiding: to get gear or work towards buying gear, or to just get achievements. I feel it's pretty safe to say most everyone who has any interest in the NiM portion of this game does not care about random purple 246s as the majority of us are sporting 248's. Yet they remain in NiMs just cause why not, right? Sure it's nice when I get a piece of eliminator gear for the mercenary I have no intention of playing, but when that happens it's just a kicks and giggles thing. So I agree with you, those are irrelevant to this entire discussion.

Next, and as you've stated, UCs are mainly what I care to collect from NiMs when it comes to loot (I need on VMCs and Isos just cause, but I don't pay attention to them till I clear out my inventory), but really, they're not why I raid. At this point, I'm doing the same content I've been doing throughout my entire tenure in this game for fun and to do NiMs with competent people. That's really it. Returning two NiMs into the game that, along the lines of the OP, have tighter role checks all around would give people two more options when they want to do a NiM raid. That's why I want them back in this manner.

Obviously, I don't speak for everyone. But I'm pretty confident that there are many other raiders who share the sentiments I just expressed.

I could agree to bring this back if just for the achievement hunters, with one caveat.

Last boss would only drop gear ,

All other boss would drop Crafting material.

Bumping, because I think it's a great idea.

I don't really understand why any is against this all the people saying "YOU JUST WANT THE ACHIEVEMENTS SCRUB" ...did you even read OPs whole post?

And all the people saying "No reason to bring it back was too easy not even a real NIM" again I ask you, did you even read the post? Or half the replies? We want it brought back and made /difficult/ like with tight DPS and heal checks. Make it so you have only 3m 30 seconds to kill karraga or something make it hard...no...make it a nightmare.

The ONLY downside I can see about bringing these back is if they aren't scaled properly to be extremely hard I can see a lot of idiots running around bragging about how they are the best NIM Raiders. Specifically a few people on Star Forge *cough Paboe cough*

Bumping.

This has never been more relevant with the upcoming release of NIM Gods. Three NIM OPs > One NIM OP

I kinda agree to a degree.

Having more content is a great idea, but it has to be somewhat on par with the rest. For example, during 4.0, a lot of people thought that because they beat EV and KP HM, they could beat every HM in the game so my guild and I, more often than not, found ourselves being in a position were a PuG we recruited on fleet wasn't pulling its weight.

So I'd advocate for 2 things :

- HM EV and KP should be made less of a pushover, nothing too extreme though, but still something you can't 5 or 6 man with one tank.

- Add some new mechanics to the newly reborn NiM. Nothing too extreme, new or more adds here and there, dots to cleanse, actual tank swapping mechanics, and so on. I could try to reflect on it, but it's late now and I'm tired.

I am personally a bit conflicted, on one hand, I would love to see what kind of creative mechanic that the dev team can introduce in EV and KP. The nightmare mechanic of DP/DF and now more recently Gods (or at least first two bosses) are really fun, innovative and interesting, they build on existing HM mechanics, which in turn builds on SM mechanics.

At the same time, does the game really need more Nightmare content? The community at the top of PvE is small but already quite committed to the game, with EC, S&V, TFB, DF, DP and now Gods, we already have quite a bit of content to do that remains challenging. In the end, what drive this game forward isn’t Nightmare content, it’ a variety of content which appeals to bigger parts of the community.

Someone proposed earlier in this thread to have EV and KP Nightmare as a bridge between Hardmode and Nightmare, to give people a taste of more difficult Nightmare content. However isn't that why we have ToS and Ravagers, two operations that have certain Nightmare element and where particular bosses (M&B and Revan) clearly can be considered on the same level a most Nightmare content.

I think most of the PvE community would rather see resources spent on developing new content, a new operation with SM and HM, and even a Nightmare mode. EV and KP simply aren’t that interesting from a mechanic, storyline or gameplay perspective.

Maybe they could tweak the mechanics a little bit with other established mechanics. Here we go with some suggestions:

Your friendly neighborhood Annihilation Droid:

- Storm protocol voids deal a zero-damage oneshot (movement is not an STD)

- The 24 weapon systems AoE stacks like Corrupter NiM or Titan 6 rockets - the players have to spread out

- The front knockback causes a debuff on the current tank so that he gets 300% more direct damage until the next knockback (tank-swap mechanic)

- The gun towers respawn at 80, 50 and 40 percent of boss HP and deal absurd damage

Grumpy jumpy thingy

- Give the adds the immunity shield of the Grob'thok NiM adds - you have to kite them through the lava to get it removed

- the active tank gets the silenced debuff from ancient threat each time Gharj jumps (and it's removed when Gharj jumps anew) ==> Tank swap mechanic

- the lava causes a stacking DoT debuff that stays for the whole fight and ticks harder with each stack with a oneshot at 5 stacks (= 5 seconds in the lava)

Funny spinning wheely thing

- Adds spawn at every spin

- if you try to spin whith the debuff you get oneshot

- make the Rakata ads stronger

- the debuff lasts longer so that all four group member have to spin

- if the rows arend locked within a 5 seconds time frame on both sides, the raid gets oneshot

Soa's infernal party squad

- if you try to help your mates you get oneshot

- all councillors have to be killed within a 10 seconds timeframe, else enrage

- the councillors can't be interrupted anymore

- the Tank adds have to be much stronger, atm they are a not so good joke

Soa the not-so infernal one

- the lightning balls and mind traps appear in all phases

- the lighning balls oneshot all players apart from the one targeted within a 5m range ("Brontes energy sphere" - no introduction needed in the civilized world)

- mind traps have a tough enrage - if they are enrage, they won't release the players until the end of the combat (maybe enrage = immune to damage?)

- there are two mind traps instead of one - one of them always takes out a tank or heal, the other one always a DPS

- Soa's onshots one random player per stack he's got after transition phase

- the pylons on the platforms in transition phase have to be a damage check - give them 270k hp or so)

- Give Soa more stacks so that the group has to spread to both sides to cleanse them

- the spinning pylons in the burn phase oneshot every player in melee range - know your positioning

- Soa has to have a tough enrage - one missed pylon has to lead to enrage

- Soa has to oneshot random players if enrage

Tadaa - EV is in line with other NiM operations

Maybe they could tweak the mechanics a little bit with other established mechanics. Here we go with some suggestions:

 

 

Your friendly neighborhood Annihilation Droid:

- Storm protocol voids deal a zero-damage oneshot (movement is not an STD)

- The 24 weapon systems AoE stacks like Corrupter NiM or Titan 6 rockets - the players have to spread out

- The front knockback causes a debuff on the current tank so that he gets 300% more direct damage until the next knockback (tank-swap mechanic)

- The gun towers respawn at 80, 50 and 40 percent of boss HP and deal absurd damage

 

Grumpy jumpy thingy

- Give the adds the immunity shield of the Grob'thok NiM adds - you have to kite them through the lava to get it removed

- the active tank gets the silenced debuff from ancient threat each time Gharj jumps (and it's removed when Gharj jumps anew) ==> Tank swap mechanic

- the lava causes a stacking DoT debuff that stays for the whole fight and ticks harder with each stack with a oneshot at 5 stacks (= 5 seconds in the lava)

 

Funny spinning wheely thing

- Adds spawn at every spin

- if you try to spin whith the debuff you get oneshot

- make the Rakata ads stronger

- the debuff lasts longer so that all four group member have to spin

- if the rows arend locked within a 5 seconds time frame on both sides, the raid gets oneshot

 

Soa's infernal party squad

- if you try to help your mates you get oneshot

- all councillors have to be killed within a 10 seconds timeframe, else enrage

- the councillors can't be interrupted anymore

- the Tank adds have to be much stronger, atm they are a not so good joke

 

Soa the not-so infernal one

- the lightning balls and mind traps appear in all phases

- the lighning balls oneshot all players apart from the one targeted within a 5m range ("Brontes energy sphere" - no introduction needed in the civilized world)

- mind traps have a tough enrage - if they are enrage, they won't release the players until the end of the combat (maybe enrage = immune to damage?)

- there are two mind traps instead of one - one of them always takes out a tank or heal, the other one always a DPS

- Soa's onshots one random player per stack he's got after transition phase

- the pylons on the platforms in transition phase have to be a damage check - give them 270k hp or so)

- Give Soa more stacks so that the group has to spread to both sides to cleanse them

- the spinning pylons in the burn phase oneshot every player in melee range - know your positioning

- Soa has to have a tough enrage - one missed pylon has to lead to enrage

- Soa has to oneshot random players if enrage

 

 

Tadaa - EV is in line with other NiM operations

Damn, that looks interesting I'd be interested to read your take on KP NiM 2.0

personally i would agree to bring them back,

but with lower rewards, because of the differences

between hm and mm.

otherwise it would mean, more work to get them hard again.

but this could be an entry for groups, doing hm raids, but

don't dare to run MM operations. and maybe this will raise

the players quality a bit.

personally i would agree to bring them back,

but with lower rewards, because of the differences

between hm and mm.

otherwise it would mean, more work to get them hard again.

 

but this could be an entry for groups, doing hm raids, but

don't dare to run MM operations. and maybe this will raise

the players quality a bit.

Totally like priority ops incentivised people to run all the HMs and not farm EV and KP to get 224.

If EV & KP NiM were a thing again and they were easier than other NiM we would have a bunch of people farming them to get the most gear they can and and that's it. Even making them drop lower tiered gear wouldn't change a thing. We would have a lot of people farming them and be done with it.

NiM EV, and NiM KP really weren't NiM raids however. The only difference was shorter Enrage timers, and Higher HP's on the bosses. Every other NiM raid in game has additional mechanics to them that were not in HM. Unless they decide to put additional mechanics in for every boss for NiM, I'd rather them not even bother having NiM versions for them

Honestly I'd rather have NEW raids, then adding new mechanics to make NiM EV, and NiM KP which were the very 1st 2 raids in the game.

NiM EV, and NiM KP really weren't NiM raids however. The only difference was shorter Enrage timers, and Higher HP's on the bosses. Every other NiM raid in game has additional mechanics to them that were not in HM. Unless they decide to put additional mechanics in for every boss for NiM, I'd rather them not even bother having NiM versions for them

 

Honestly I'd rather have NEW raids, then adding new mechanics to make NiM EV, and NiM KP which were the very 1st 2 raids in the game.

again, this is not an either or. You can fully support the return of NIM EV/KP without backing down on wanting new operations.

That these were the first two operations is even more reason to bring them back.

again, this is not an either or. You can fully support the return of NIM EV/KP without backing down on wanting new operations.

 

That these were the first two operations is even more reason to bring them back.

Honestly it is an either or. I'd rather have them spend time on New raids, then wasting time on Making up new mechanics for 6 year old raids, just to give them a NiM version.

Honestly it is an either or. I'd rather have them spend time on New raids, then wasting time on Making up new mechanics for 6 year old raids, just to give them a NiM version.

the mechanics already exist.... its simply not true if they say: we took nim mode out because there are no significant changes to hm...

if it was true they should have taken denova out aswell, as it adds like noting in nim mechanic wise.... just like hm but with tighter enrage timers and a medpack debuff and the bomber add.

and to say there were no different mechanics in kp/ev is wrong too.....

e.g. fabricator droid, pylon boss