Dps juggernauts, tank juggernauts, marauders, sentinels and guardians are using same set bonus which gives a debuff on accuracy to everyone who got into awe/roar (https://gyazo.com/78e3c743e5803e0d45fb11bf408de4a7). Because of this other players always get this and other accuracy debuffs and all fights in swtor are becoming meaningless since all abilities are missing all the time. First everyone gets force bound debuff, then someone gets diversion, then someone gets obfuscate from marauder/sentinel, then AGAIN force bound debuff from another jugg/guardian/sent/marauder and again and again. I mean this set bonus should be available only for TANK specs due to their role in saving others from death. When dps specs can give guard/taunts/force bound all fights in swtor are becoming non-existent and pointless.

Please, restrict this set bonus to be used ONLY by tanks!

Does this belong in the PvP section?

Yes, it's a PVP-only issue.

Force bound is a useless set for PVE, which, although some PvP-only players deny it, is still the majority of the game.

That said: the OP has a point. I heard the accuracy debuff from this set was something like 80% or 90% which is way too high.

What about all the slows and roots that make the pvp experience suck for melee classes? At least now warriors and guardians have something to somewhat answer kiting and all those other annoying ranged tactics.

Now don't go making good points here!

What about all the slows and roots that make the pvp experience suck for melee classes? At least now warriors and guardians have something to somewhat answer kiting and all those other annoying ranged tactics.

Iam playing as a meele class too and have no issues with it. As a mara i have utilities on reduced cd for predation which also works on my team mates, as a jugg you can take mad dash root breaker and enrage root breaker, as a sin you have lower cd on force speed and root breaker utilities. Operative with his rolls barely can be stopped. Sounds like your skill issue while force bound is something any meele class can't avoid whereas range classes often avoiding it by staying away from all sith warrior and jedi knight classes. Imagine getting during the fight force bound, obfuscate, force bound, obfuscate during 90% of all match from classes which are suppose to be dps

Yes, it's a PVP-only issue.

 

Force bound is a useless set for PVE, which, although some PvP-only players deny it, is still the majority of the game.

 

That said: the OP has a point. I heard the accuracy debuff from this set was something like 80% or 90% which is way too high.

Funny how even though the OP linked the set, and the set is easy to look up on the GTN, some people spread still spread misinformation. "I heard" basically means you don't know, or knowing refutes your opinion.

Also funny how no one mentions it's just force and tech accuracy that's effected since it got nerfed.

It's even more funny how it used to be great for PVE until they nerfed it, to exclude melee and ranged attacks, and that someone would use opinions and arguments from before the nerf to construct a strawman argument for how it works now.

If anything, they should change it back to the pre-nerf state, but make it Jugg/Guardian only. Maras already have enough survivability, but jugg dps is in such a bad spot right now that entering ranked without it is equivalent to intentionally throwing the game. Ideally, that should be through basic class mechanics, but as we all know, class balancing patches in SWTOR are few and far between.

Funny how even though the OP linked the set, and the set is easy to look up on the GTN, some people spread still spread misinformation. "I heard" basically means you don't know, or knowing refutes your opinion.

 

Also funny how no one mentions it's just force and tech accuracy that's effected since it got nerfed.

 

It's even more funny how it used to be great for PVE until they nerfed it, to exclude melee and ranged attacks, and that someone would use opinions and arguments from before the nerf to construct a strawman argument for how it works now.

 

If anything, they should change it back to the pre-nerf state, but make it Jugg/Guardian only. Maras already have enough survivability, but jugg dps is in such a bad spot right now that entering ranked without it is equivalent to intentionally throwing the game. Ideally, that should be through basic class mechanics, but as we all know, class balancing patches in SWTOR are few and far between.

Jugg dps are not that squishy as they were before. They get guard from sins who can vanish 2-3 times and thanks to grit teeth juggs can use ed at least 2 times during one round. Only bad juggs die fast but bad marauders, sorcs and operatives dying fast too. The issue is that dps specs are meant to dps but now we see dps juggs and marauders literally tanking/saving team mates from death. You attack jugg, jugg gets guard from a sin, you switch on sin of course but then you get force bound debuff from a guarded jugg. With this stupid situation you can't do much against both jugg and sin because one is guarding another and another reduces accuracy of everyone who tries to counter guard with switching target. Oh and + marauders using force bound + obfuscates

Wait until that marksmanship sniper discovers that it's not just diversion . . .

4 Targets

Shatter Shot > Corrosive Dart

Shatter Shot > Corrosive Dart

Shatter Shot > Corrosive Dart

Shatter Shot > Corrosive Dart > Diversion (All Four)

Penetrating Blasts (One) > Sniper Volley

Penetrating Blasts (Another)

Every 12-16 seconds...

With the Juggs and Marauders finishing 'em off after applying their own debuffs.

Can't be cleansed, healed, nor can those 4 do any serious DPS.

Wait until that marksmanship sniper discovers that it's not just diversion . . .

 

4 Targets

 

Shatter Shot > Corrosive Dart

Shatter Shot > Corrosive Dart

Shatter Shot > Corrosive Dart

Shatter Shot > Corrosive Dart > Diversion (All Four)

Penetrating Blasts (One) > Sniper Volley

Penetrating Blasts (Another)

 

Every 12-16 seconds...

 

With the Juggs and Marauders finishing 'em off after applying their own debuffs.

 

Can't be cleansed, healed, nor can those 4 do any serious DPS.

 

Interesting.

to copy my opinion from a thread in the pvp section:

my take on this set is:

1. I can't afford it anyway. (Sitting at 50 mill)

2. I have no desire to attempt ranked (again), so I feel perfectly justified in running descent

3. I have no desire to farm up yet another set of BiS mods

4. This is their idea of fixing guardian dps in pvp?

5. I have serious doubts this takes the class from like the bottom of solo ranked to OP as some people here are claiming.

6. the concept bothers me. If you have a gear vendor, use it. Kai can still exist as a discount dealer.

7. The avengers game is getting close and my time with swtor might be nearing an (at least temporary) end, so i see little reason to invest in the set.

8. Finally, based on the level of outrage, there is some probability of the set being adjusted at some point, so why risk going broke for nothing?

Jugg dps are not that squishy as they were before. They get guard from sins who can vanish 2-3 times and thanks to grit teeth juggs can use ed at least 2 times during one round. Only bad juggs die fast but bad marauders, sorcs and operatives dying fast too. The issue is that dps specs are meant to dps but now we see dps juggs and marauders literally tanking/saving team mates from death. You attack jugg, jugg gets guard from a sin, you switch on sin of course but then you get force bound debuff from a guarded jugg. With this stupid situation you can't do much against both jugg and sin because one is guarding another and another reduces accuracy of everyone who tries to counter guard with switching target. Oh and + marauders using force bound + obfuscates

You used the same type of arguments in the opening post.

"Because other classes can do things like diversion and obfuscate, having the jugg do something similar means the game is ruined."

"Because sins can guard people, then stealth and heal, jugg dps don't need any more defenses."

Anyone can see that the internal logic in those statements is completely flawed.

You used the same type of arguments in the opening post.

 

"Because other classes can do things like diversion and obfuscate, having the jugg do something similar means the game is ruined."

 

"Because sins can guard people, then stealth and heal, jugg dps don't need any more defenses."

 

Anyone can see that the internal logic in those statements is completely flawed.

There are huge differences. First of all other abilities which reduce accuracy aren't taking full control if our characters while awe/roar not only reduces accuracy but also controls us before that for 6 seconds. Secondly, diversion and obfuscate belong to sniper and marauders only, there isn't a big chance you fight against 2-3 snipers or marauders while force bound can be used by dps juggs, tank juggs and marauders which often results in fighting against 3-4 force bounds in the same fight. Thirdly, considering that force bound can be used by marauders it leads to one dpa class having two serious accuracy debuff abilities - roar and obfuscate which is a pretty huge opportunity in surviving and saving others even compared to tanks. Marauder can both do big dps and save his team mates with force bound and obfuscates. Don't forget that both juggs and marauders have utilities which are reducing cooldown of roar so that they can use their force bound many times during the round fully destroying enemy's dps.

There are huge differences. First of all other abilities which reduce accuracy aren't taking full control if our characters while awe/roar not only reduces accuracy but also controls us before that for 6 seconds. Secondly, diversion and obfuscate belong to sniper and marauders only, there isn't a big chance you fight against 2-3 snipers or marauders while force bound can be used by dps juggs, tank juggs and marauders which often results in fighting against 3-4 force bounds in the same fight. Thirdly, considering that force bound can be used by marauders it leads to one dpa class having two serious accuracy debuff abilities - roar and obfuscate which is a pretty huge opportunity in surviving and saving others even compared to tanks. Marauder can both do big dps and save his team mates with force bound and obfuscates. Don't forget that both juggs and marauders have utilities which are reducing cooldown of roar so that they can use their force bound many times during the round fully destroying enemy's dps.

I've already stated, (in a post you yourself quoted) that mara's shouldn't be allowed to use forcebound in my opinion.

With that in mind, nothing in your last post here applies to anything I've stated in this thread. Keep talking about Maras using force bound if you want to, but as an wise old lady once said "Where's the Beef? Show me why dps juggs shouldn't have force bound. Reply to my arguments and statements, not that guy living rent free in your head.

I've already stated, (in a post you yourself quoted) that mara's shouldn't be allowed to use forcebound in my opinion.

 

With that in mind, nothing in your last post here applies to anything I've stated in this thread. Keep talking about Maras using force bound if you want to, but as an wise old lady once said "Where's the Beef? Show me why dps juggs shouldn't have force bound. Reply to my arguments and statements, not that guy living rent free in your head.

The reason is because whole dps spec concept is built on that they should not be able to both do big dps and have many instruments to save their team mates from death. Dps spec is called dps not without a reason, its main role is TO DO DAMAGE. Jugg tanks already has guard on 50%, two taunts which allows him to save his team mates from death and giving him additional instrument to save his team mates turns this spec into tanks-dps spec instead of full dps spec as it should be. Currently dps juggs can both do big damage and save their team mates as a half-tank spec thanks to grit teeth tactical item which is obviously an unfair advantage. Devs should move some of dps jugg combat proficiencies to dps set bonuses so that dps juggs who are using force bound would not be able to do any big dps. When dps jugg does 7-9k dps and guards/taunts/force bounds enemies from killing his team mates it makes all other classes irrelevant. What sense to play operative which heals are maximum 3k hps or sin who can only guard and has to vanish fast because of guard for a long regen with stopping damage does small dps while you can play a dps jugg with guard, taunts, minimum 2 Ed thanks to grit teeth, force bound, big dps and no need for regen time-window?

The reason is because whole dps spec concept is built on that they should not be able to both do big dps and have many instruments to save their team mates from death. Dps spec is called dps not without a reason, its main role is TO DO DAMAGE. Jugg tanks already has guard on 50%, two taunts which allows him to save his team mates from death and giving him additional instrument to save his team mates turns this spec into tanks-dps spec instead of full dps spec as it should be. Currently dps juggs can both do big damage and save their team mates as a half-tank spec thanks to grit teeth tactical item which is obviously an unfair advantage. Devs should move some of dps jugg combat proficiencies to dps set bonuses so that dps juggs who are using force bound would not be able to do any big dps. When dps jugg does 7-9k dps and guards/taunts/force bounds enemies from killing his team mates it makes all other classes irrelevant. What sense to play operative which heals are maximum 3k hps or sin who can only guard and has to vanish fast because of guard for a long regen with stopping damage does small dps while you can play a dps jugg with guard, taunts, minimum 2 Ed thanks to grit teeth, force bound, big dps and no need for regen time-window?

What % of the ranked community thinks jugg dps is overtuned, even with force bound? 1%? 2%? No body I've talked to, no body I play with. They're the first to die, even with force bound. If they step into ranked without force bound, then they're throwers and trolls. Juggs are a low mobility melee class. They're not going to LOS very well, they're not going to evade anything, and they're not going to dps very well when they try to survive.

Feel free to que up a jugg dps in ranked, and post some videos. If you produce enough evidence that contradicts the current meta, then that at least would be something of value to talk about.

What % of the ranked community thinks jugg dps is overtuned, even with force bound? 1%? 2%? No body I've talked to, no body I play with. They're the first to die, even with force bound. If they step into ranked without force bound, then they're throwers and trolls. Juggs are a low mobility melee class. They're not going to LOS very well, they're not going to evade anything, and they're not going to dps very well when they try to survive.

 

Feel free to que up a jugg dps in ranked, and post some videos. If you produce enough evidence that contradicts the current meta, then that at least would be something of value to talk about.

we actually talk about current patch lol not 5.0 and not begining of 6.0. Now dps jugg isn't that squishy due to grit teeth and nerf to assassin,merc,operative,sorc set bonuses. If you have issues with dying fast on dps jugg it means you are just bad. It's skilll issue if you still do bad on dps jugg in solo ranked. I also agree that force bound must be restricted only to tanks because it's not even used by dps juggs to save themselves but to save their team mates. You attack assassin/pt instead of jugg which finally gives juggs what they want (no one is killing them) but they not only guard/taunt to save their team mates, they also use utility on intimidate roar lower cd and saving their team mates from death like if they are tanks. So your point is wrong totally because FB allows dps juggernauts not only save their life but to also save lives of his team mate which is an unfair advantage for a dps class. Dps class must do dps, not having 3-4 ways of saving other dps...it is tank role to save his team mates

we actually talk about current patch lol not 5.0 and not begining of 6.0. Now dps jugg isn't that squishy due to grit teeth and nerf to assassin,merc,operative,sorc set bonuses. If you have issues with dying fast on dps jugg it means you are just bad. It's skilll issue if you still do bad on dps jugg in solo ranked. I also agree that force bound must be restricted only to tanks because it's not even used by dps juggs to save themselves but to save their team mates. You attack assassin/pt instead of jugg which finally gives juggs what they want (no one is killing them) but they not only guard/taunt to save their team mates, they also use utility on intimidate roar lower cd and saving their team mates from death like if they are tanks. So your point is wrong totally because FB allows dps juggernauts not only save their life but to also save lives of his team mate which is an unfair advantage for a dps class. Dps class must do dps, not having 3-4 ways of saving other dps...it is tank role to save his team mates

Does a dps jugg have as much utility as a dps op? No.

Does a PT tank have as much utility as a sin tank? No.

Utility is a completely independent factor from roles in trinity based games.

Force Bound is an extension of utility.

Anyone arguing that "X role" shouldn't have utility because they are "X role" has zero qualifications talking about anything close to class balance. You need above a certain amount of logic cohesiveness and perspective to create constructive arguments about it.

I don't play dps jugg anymore. Switched off of it a few months after 5.0, for obvious reasons. I simply notice, like everyone else, they're the first to die in any given ranked match without healers.

I'll make you the same offer as the other guy though. Roll a dps jugg in ranked, don't use force bound, and post the vids. If you gather enough evidence to change the meta, then we'd all be interested in seeing it.

Does a dps jugg have as much utility as a dps op? No.

 

Does a PT tank have as much utility as a sin tank? No.

 

Utility is a completely independent factor from roles in trinity based games.

 

Force Bound is an extension of utility.

 

Anyone arguing that "X role" shouldn't have utility because they are "X role" has zero qualifications talking about anything close to class balance. You need above a certain amount of logic cohesiveness and perspective to create constructive arguments about it.

 

I don't play dps jugg anymore. Switched off of it a few months after 5.0, for obvious reasons. I simply notice, like everyone else, they're the first to die in any given ranked match without healers.

 

I'll make you the same offer as the other guy though. Roll a dps jugg in ranked, don't use force bound, and post the vids. If you gather enough evidence to change the meta, then we'd all be interested in seeing it.

He is right and it is not really about roles. It is about being too op. Current skilled juggs are not dying at all with this set bonus. Literally double ed, reduced cd on intimidating roar, force bound and kiting allows jugg to both survive himself and save others. Too much for jedi knight or sith warrior regardless of his advanced class. Except for tank who can't do much dps which is ok for him to have so many save abilities

Remove Force Bound from the game!!

But also remove more than half of roots and slows.

Balanced.

It's not op because it makes the user too survivable, it's just a terribly designed set that makes the game less fun by forcing people not to use any important abilities for a significant fraction of the match. Not to mention it being RNG. It's also a major reason why jug tank is miles ahead of the other 2 tanks. It has no counter other than dodging the roar, which shouldn't happen often if the warrior is decent. You may worry that it would suck for everyone who bought the set- myself included- but it really would be a good thing for all if it was just deleted from the game and replaced with some other non-rng set that doesn't turn matches into playing-around-FB snoozefests

So if my team has sin or pt tank and enemy has jugg tank with force and player is good, it's autoloss for us then ?