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What role does a dps commando have in PvP?


Meshimashi

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Heya everyone!

 

Been thinkin' lately about what role do a commando have in PvP as dps? I find that something is lackin, am I supose to be a turret (stand still and actually do damage) before I get bashed or am I supose to run around using hammershot? Been playing around with both assult specialist and gunnery they have their own benefits but I'm not very satisfied.

I can empty a full clip of ammo without killing my target and if I get attacked it's pretty much over. I consider myself a good pvper and I'm use to the playstyle (played elemental shaman in world of warcraft 1700-1800 rated arena 2v2 and 3v3) but still I can't figure out how to kill a melee class.

So I wonder, if I want to be of any use to my team during warzones should I just try to deal as much damage as possible before someone notice me or should I run around trying to survive the best I can? perhaps off-heal as dps? I don't know.

 

What role do a commando have in PvP?

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Don't listen to the uppers morons who say commando are waste in pvp. Commando's role is to support other classes. Indeed some class have easy time taking other one on one, but they are not doing the right thing either, because everybody should be hitting the same guy, first the heal, then the dps, and ultimately tanks, so If you are trying to kill a guy nobody else is hitting, just ask yourself if you are on the right target. Remember! Nobody forces you to target the one who is targetting you. Just bump him somewhere, and keep on focusing the same target as your friends. Your grav round are very useful since they put shield debuff on them, and it helps your friend killing him faster.

 

You can also play the sentinel who guards a point. In most case you will be strong enough to stay alive until your friends come help. Voidstar is a holy ground for you, you can easily reach the 300k+ DPS, your bump is very effective against the double neons guys, and your aoes can interrupt a lot of people trying to either setup or defuse the bomb. Your ultimate weapon? The sticky! launch it, go hide, and the guy will be interrupted by some one he can't jump on. Coast of Novare is the BG where I have the hardest time, because it is harder to take advantage of the environment. But again you have a lot of aoes which are instant, and very effective inside of the bunker.

 

Of course everybody won't find it very interesting to cover your friends and watch their back while they enjoy rushing in the bus. But it is the same for the guys who don't want to heal or to tank. There are the dps that can attack head on, and the dps who are part of the support team. If you don't like it, don't play it, but don't blame the class.

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If you find yourself in a PVP wz and not kicked from the game you are ranged DPS turret.. Stand at the edge of the fray in a position that limits the opponent's ability to LOS your shots, blast until you die. Think of death as part of your strategy in playing the WZ as you will not survive any encounters..

 

The bottom line is the commando is not suited for PVP at this time.

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There are a lot of fools posting here, but let me set the record straight.

 

COMMANDO IS NOT A FACEROLL PVP CLASS.

 

You serve a very valuable role in PVP, be it glass cannon, mobile DPS, or crowd control (yes you heard that right).

 

The problem that a lot of people run into is that the current FOTMs are almost impossible to kill and since the game greatly encourages creating alts there is a glut of flying monkeys with OP cooldowns running around. This is frustrating but not the hallmark of a broken class.

 

This isn't to say that there are not problems, but the problems Commandos have are equally impacting of PVP and PVE. Ammo management and an awful capstone ability in CM, bugged talents in Gunnery, and RNG hell in AS.

 

As a DPS Commando in PVP let me give you some tips on how to be effective.

 

1> Wear the right gear and know how stats effect your spec. Do you have less than 16k Health? You will die in less than 4GCDs to a pissed off Maurader/Sent. Do you have less than 400 power? Your base damage attacks are really going to feel wimpy. Do you have less than 70% Critical Multiplier? You are very likely not going to anywhere near the top of rankings in damage or kills. Do you have less than 800 Expertise? You are cheap, stupid, and need to go do dailies until you can afford the recruit gear.

 

2> Line of Sight is your friend, use it. If you stand in the middle of the battlefield, someone is going to notice you and kill you before you can blink. Gunnery Commandos should run to a pillar and find a target before they start shooting. Easiest thing to do is take a moment, find the opposing healer, put a raid marker on it, THEN start blasting.

 

3> Keep track of who is low health and try to use your burst to pick off high DPS classes BEFORE they have a chance to use their cooldowns. A crit Grav Round combined with a crit Demo Round or HiB can easily do 7k+ damage if you are geared correctly. That's about 35% of even the more well geared dps class, if they hit at the effectively the same time they will die.

 

4> If a Commando killer comes after you, use your LOS objects to slow them down. Gunnery is not a good kiting spec, but AS does OK. If you are Gunnery, pop your cooldowns, but otherwise you are probably best off continuing to focus on your current target and not worrying about the guy who will eventually kill you. Depending on ammo, a Concussion Charge to buy a GCD might be in order. AS, depending the situation it may be in your best interest to kite, your Plasma Cell procs a snare and Reactive Shield should clear any movement impairing effects. If a Marauder or Assassin has their cooldowns death is likely inevitable, but you can still lead them on a merry chase and hopefully get some help. If you get focused, just accept it, but try to use a Sticky Grenade before you drop as a parting gift.

 

5> Know your abilities. Did you know Pulse Cannon does not have a max number of targets and does elemental damage (ignores armor and some cooldowns)? Did you know that Hail of Bolts is considered ranged attack and thus can proc Plasma Cell setting multiple people on fire at once? How about Sticky Grenade > Tech Override > Reserve PowerCell > Plasma Grenade > Hail of Bolts being the best six seconds of AOE any class can produce in PVP (12-15k depending on crits/spec)? That Sticky Grenade is better than AP if more than two targets are in the AOE, unless you are trying to focus down a specific player?

 

6> You are really good crowd control and combat control. Gunnery has an unparalleled ability to manipulate enemy positioning on the battlefield. Properly using LOS then using Concussion Charge and Shockstrike to put enemies in kill zones makes Gunnery Commandos real annoyances for enemy healers and melee DPS. Did that Marauder just pop his CC break to get out of your Cyro Grenade? Tech Override > Concussive Round, then walk away and giggle at him. Is your team about to cap a door or node in Voidstar or Novare use Concussive Charge to prevent them from getting LOS and stopping the cap.

 

7> Your DPS is really really good as either Gunnery or AS. Stop whining about it, sure there are bugs and RNG problems, but they are not crippling in the ability to do damage. You should be at or near the top of damage and kills in any WZ, if you are not then YOU are doing something wrong.

 

Now the arguments I am going to hear are all nonsense. Sure some class somewhere does everything above better than us, but no one does all of it as well as Commandos. I am sure I will see the always silly, "Well I am valor 82, have PVPed since 1971, and I say we suck!." Sorry to tell you, if you are sucking it up and feel like a total doormat, YOU are the primary reason, not the class.

Edited by azhrione
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I play on the Harbringer and some of the best pvp healers are commandos. They are tough to kill and can survive an onslaught of more than one player pounding on them... I play a merc and I'm not sure if there is much difference between the commando and merc, but I can tell you the above player that told you not to queue in order to let other dos classes in... is an Elitist. Assuming the merc and commando are the same class in a different skin ( the trees look the same) you can do plenty of dos. Are we the hardest rotation and have the least survivability? Sure... but doesn't mean we are useless. I'm always top 1,2 or 3 in wz where I'm focusing on dps and bursting healers. Not as easy to play as as other classes.

 

Our dps roll is to stand at range and help focus down targets. When melee and healers are concentrated on other things you can kill most players in 4-6 hits assuming you have decent gear. If you run into the front lines or try to take people 1v1 you going to have a very hard time of it. You have to hit and fade duck and weave NOT charge in.

 

AS healer the role is obvious and lots of commandos do a great job of keeping themselves and other up in the battle

Edited by Choffware
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There are a lot of fools posting here, but let me set the record straight.

 

COMMANDO IS NOT A FACEROLL PVP CLASS.

 

....

.

 

Bravo and thank you for a very clear and detailed "how to play commando in PVP" guide.

I'm not playing one in PVP, but I've met my share and the good commandos are a real pain with their control of the battlefield.

 

That's how you recognize the great commandos from the scrub who can only pew pew pew.

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azhrione,

 

I am glad that you are having fun, and that you are successful on your server in your WZ.. That said, I do disagree with you from a commando DPS perspective. Our survive ability does not exist. Once you are targeted and engaged there is little you can do.

 

Prior to 1.2 we were not that great, and after 1.2 we simply are not good.. Many more agree with me here I think than they do with you.

 

I could be wrong. I could simply just suck, but I don't think this is the case. My alts all do very well in PVP.

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azhrione,

 

I am glad that you are having fun, and that you are successful on your server in your WZ.. That said, I do disagree with you from a commando DPS perspective. Our survive ability does not exist. Once you are targeted and engaged there is little you can do.

 

Prior to 1.2 we were not that great, and after 1.2 we simply are not good.. Many more agree with me here I think than they do with you.

 

I could be wrong. I could simply just suck, but I don't think this is the case. My alts all do very well in PVP.

 

 

I'm sorry you are not having fun, but this is a challenging PVP class to play. What I think you, and others, are confusing here is that difference between a difficult PVP class and an easy PVP class. When someone makes a bold statement of "Our survivability does not exist." and I see myself, and others, not only surviving but thriving in WZ then something is up. I'll see if I can FRAP some videos tonight to show what I am talking about.

 

All I can say is buck up, the class isn't worthless in PVP, in any spec. If it isn't fun, if easy is what you want, then Bioware has made the Sentinal class for you.

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problem issssss, if u play assault... u are just nerfing urself because a vanguard is just 10 times better then u, in the same exact spec. if u play gunnery well u will be ripped apart so i dont know :p Edited by xxIncubixx
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problem issssss, if u play assault... u are just nerfing urself because a vanguard is just 10 times better then u, in the same exact spec. if u play gunnery well u will be ripped apart so i dont know :p

 

Don't be ridiculous, no Assault Vanguard is ten times better than an Assault Commando. They have slightly better synergy between their base skills and spec tree. This may translate into higher damage output, which when put head to head on a combat dummy translates to about 5% better DPS.

 

Their skill set is better designed to keep enemies close, ours is designed to push them away. This isn't to say that the Assault tree for Commandos doesn't need a tweak, it does, as it is indeed better for Vanguards right now. However it doesn't require a rework or drastic change because they are very close to each other already in terms of overall power.

Edited by azhrione
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*text wall*

 

I'm not saying that Commandos can't do well, I'm saying that other classes do what they do better. (Namely gunslingers.) They also lack some important utilities. (Namely interrupts.)

 

I suppose one can argue that they have a legitimate DPS role due to their good CC capability and mediocre healing, but those pale in comparison to the utility offered by other classes, so I can't say I'd agree.

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I'm not saying that Commandos can't do well, I'm saying that other classes do what they do better. (Namely gunslingers.) They also lack some important utilities. (Namely interrupts.)

 

I suppose one can argue that they have a legitimate DPS role due to their good CC capability and mediocre healing, but those pale in comparison to the utility offered by other classes, so I can't say I'd agree.

 

I have yet to see the term "legitimate dps role" defined. My assumption has always been that is defined by A> Doing lots of damage, B> Opponents actually dying, C> A and B contributing to the success of the War Zone.

 

Damage is very high, in spite of claims to the contrary, plenty of screenshots have been submitted that show Commando DPS in both Assault and Gunnery performing fine. C, is primarily determined by the player but the skills available in terms of CC contribute.

 

In comparison to other classes, sure there are some OP classes right now that you'd be foolish to take a Commando over unless the player was just terrible. Using GS as you did, one spec in GS might currently be a little better than Gunnery Commandos, but the player is going to the primary determining factor on who is legitimate and who is not. I reiterate the problem is a handful of OP cooldowns on a few classes that make them overly strong, beyond that PVP balance is not in terrible shape.

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thanks for the replies!

 

I'v been trying out being the "support" dps you mentioned and somewhat it's easier to except that you get stomped once a jugg/mara jumps you. Our damage + cc as gunnery got alot of potential but it's as you say, it's not a "faceroll" class and sometimes it's damn impossible to pull off something useful. Due to "long" cast times and no tool to break snares/roots (in the gunnery tree that is) commandos feels alittle underpowered if you take a look at sages for example with speed boosts instant cc, roots, range interrupt and so on. I still play my commando since I enjoy it but I would enjoy it even more if our role gets abit more defined, as it is now we are just alittle of everything.

 

cheers again for the answers. Also about the tips, I'm fully aware of pretty much everything you mentioned ^^

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There are a lot of fools posting here, but let me set the record straight.

 

COMMANDO IS NOT A FACEROLL PVP CLASS.

 

You serve a very valuable role in PVP, be it glass cannon, mobile DPS, or crowd control (yes you heard that right).

 

The problem that a lot of people run into is that the current FOTMs are almost impossible to kill and since the game greatly encourages creating alts there is a glut of flying monkeys with OP cooldowns running around. This is frustrating but not the hallmark of a broken class.

 

This isn't to say that there are not problems, but the problems Commandos have are equally impacting of PVP and PVE. Ammo management and an awful capstone ability in CM, bugged talents in Gunnery, and RNG hell in AS.

 

As a DPS Commando in PVP let me give you some tips on how to be effective.

 

1> Wear the right gear and know how stats effect your spec. Do you have less than 16k Health? You will die in less than 4GCDs to a pissed off Maurader/Sent. Do you have less than 400 power? Your base damage attacks are really going to feel wimpy. Do you have less than 70% Critical Multiplier? You are very likely not going to anywhere near the top of rankings in damage or kills. Do you have less than 800 Expertise? You are cheap, stupid, and need to go do dailies until you can afford the recruit gear.

 

2> Line of Sight is your friend, use it. If you stand in the middle of the battlefield, someone is going to notice you and kill you before you can blink. Gunnery Commandos should run to a pillar and find a target before they start shooting. Easiest thing to do is take a moment, find the opposing healer, put a raid marker on it, THEN start blasting.

 

3> Keep track of who is low health and try to use your burst to pick off high DPS classes BEFORE they have a chance to use their cooldowns. A crit Grav Round combined with a crit Demo Round or HiB can easily do 7k+ damage if you are geared correctly. That's about 35% of even the more well geared dps class, if they hit at the effectively the same time they will die.

 

4> If a Commando killer comes after you, use your LOS objects to slow them down. Gunnery is not a good kiting spec, but AS does OK. If you are Gunnery, pop your cooldowns, but otherwise you are probably best off continuing to focus on your current target and not worrying about the guy who will eventually kill you. Depending on ammo, a Concussion Charge to buy a GCD might be in order. AS, depending the situation it may be in your best interest to kite, your Plasma Cell procs a snare and Reactive Shield should clear any movement impairing effects. If a Marauder or Assassin has their cooldowns death is likely inevitable, but you can still lead them on a merry chase and hopefully get some help. If you get focused, just accept it, but try to use a Sticky Grenade before you drop as a parting gift.

 

5> Know your abilities. Did you know Pulse Cannon does not have a max number of targets and does elemental damage (ignores armor and some cooldowns)? Did you know that Hail of Bolts is considered ranged attack and thus can proc Plasma Cell setting multiple people on fire at once? How about Sticky Grenade > Tech Override > Reserve PowerCell > Plasma Grenade > Hail of Bolts being the best six seconds of AOE any class can produce in PVP (12-15k depending on crits/spec)? That Sticky Grenade is better than AP if more than two targets are in the AOE, unless you are trying to focus down a specific player?

 

6> You are really good crowd control and combat control. Gunnery has an unparalleled ability to manipulate enemy positioning on the battlefield. Properly using LOS then using Concussion Charge and Shockstrike to put enemies in kill zones makes Gunnery Commandos real annoyances for enemy healers and melee DPS. Did that Marauder just pop his CC break to get out of your Cyro Grenade? Tech Override > Concussive Round, then walk away and giggle at him. Is your team about to cap a door or node in Voidstar or Novare use Concussive Charge to prevent them from getting LOS and stopping the cap.

 

7> Your DPS is really really good as either Gunnery or AS. Stop whining about it, sure there are bugs and RNG problems, but they are not crippling in the ability to do damage. You should be at or near the top of damage and kills in any WZ, if you are not then YOU are doing something wrong.

 

Now the arguments I am going to hear are all nonsense. Sure some class somewhere does everything above better than us, but no one does all of it as well as Commandos. I am sure I will see the always silly, "Well I am valor 82, have PVPed since 1971, and I say we suck!." Sorry to tell you, if you are sucking it up and feel like a total doormat, YOU are the primary reason, not the class.

 

Allow me to debate your points.

 

 

Plenty of SS have been posted showing Commandos doing half decent dps. ( I say half decent becasue I haven't seen any break 500k dmg 70 k protection and 50k healing yet. Not a one.) That could be the fact that they're facing handicapped other teams. But, when it comes down to skilled play, I doubt any but the top tiers of commando will break 300 k.

 

 

Now on to your multi point post.

 

 

1. I'm wearing mostly optimized BM gear and a pair of WH gear pieces. ( I pretty much gave up serious pvp. I still pvp mind you, but its as combat medic now, and I just can't find the enthusiasm I had for my grav round.) I have just over 16k health, no im not slotting for endurance. that doesnt help my heals too much. However I'm struggling to find that 400 power mark. Must be a full war hero gear thing. I beat the 70% crit bonus brians in at arou 74-75% so maybe I'm using -too much- surge. But crits are king at pvp due to burst, so maybe not.

 

I still do sub par damage when compared with any class that can fire off a succession of instant activation abilities yes we have hib yes we have demo round/assault plastic, buuut what we dont have is access to those abilities all the time, nor any other instant all at once dmg ability. Sticky doesnt count as it requires time to set up in order to be counted as burst. Granted that time is spent going OMG LIGHTSABERS! NOT IN THE FACE! NOT IN THE FACE!

 

So my gear was not the issue.

 

2. Line of sight is just as much the friend of the enemy as all it takes for them to dodge your charge up grav round is to sneak arounda pillar themselves especially healers who will just choose the opposite pillar and hug around it forcing you to run for three to four seconds just to get in range once more and usually into the open arms of a hungry jugg/mara/ sithassin. At least you fed the children.

 

3. You mention burst here and I wonder just how much you realizse your burst is worth without A. 5 gravity signatures. (thats 4.5 seconds to stack at minimum, in practice more) B.5 charged barrels ( 7.5 second stack minimum, again, in practice more.) C. Time spent waiting for sticky or AP to go boom. Burst? I guess you mean just firing that AP, that Demo round, and that Hib willy nilly, without the buffs/debuffs that make them at all worth while. ( And thats if one of your enemyes doesnt any of their numerous defensive cds or run los while you've been standing around celebrating your interruptable, pushbackable, [ yes its talented for less but it still is time spent] charge up abilities. Which might see you doing a buncha ones and twos, no yellow dmg what so ever, or the enemy suddenly going lol no 30% more hps, or lol heals, or lol shield, or lol invisible, or lol los.

 

4. Now, you say a commando killer... Thats what, every class but other commandos right? By the time you notice one of them " coming after you" its a split second too late as its usually A. force leap, force slow, force lightning, or any other number of abilities that either immediately get someone in your face, or B. snare you and is a sure sign that someone will be kicking you through death's door shortly. Yes you can play ring around the rosy with the sorc or merc brand of these people, even the snipers, but everything else is following your limping rear end around that pillar, poking you in the bum while you blow your whistle.

 

5. I will say your aoe is spot on, however that seems to be an assault spec only thing with the hail or bolts, seeing as hail of bolts I've seen has done a whopping 200 dmg a tic on some classes, i couldnt say which at this point and yes that is a special scenario, but it doesn't change the fact that for ammo cost its a terrible aoe. Then there is the no limit pulse cannon, that throws your hug the pillar out the window and if you're suddenly throwing lightning all about its a good bet you're suddenly target tasty # one. Especially as soon as they realize you're a commando, which is right away.

 

6. Again with the crowd control. Well concussive round isn't exactly spamable, Concussive charge unless talented is about as strong as a stiff breeze, even talented has a higher cd then force leap, aaand the coup de grace, usually fills more resolve than force leap. Stock strike adds resolve too when talented i might add. Try and drop a cryo grenade and if -if!- their resolve bar isnt full from some jergoff force pushing them for the luls, then you might get that concussive round off. once every two minutes that is. (or not at all without that instant cast buf. Also better hope theres no dots on them or some one isn't wearing a saftey helmet and "Helping" by breaking it early.)

 

 

7. Apparently my dps is reeeally really good if I get the chance to go through 8 GCDs plus time spent casting. Thats all well and good but I seem to notice that in the time it takes me to scream " I NEED AN ADULT!" I'm usually at less than half hp from a marauder. And by the time I've been able to squirt one or two tears I'm just waiting for them to throw the dirt on me... wait sorry to respawn.

 

So in short. If you find yourself doing AMAZING! in a warzone. It could be you're doing lots of illegal spice and you're hallucinating it all. It could be all that friendship and rainbows from your team keeping idiot pugs you're fighting off you and letting you go through a dps rotation ( and look at their dps i bet its higher by a margin of 100k. Go on, look at it.) It could also be you're by yourself and both your team and theires are in need of special schooling to retread tires and not to play video games.

 

Either way, congratulations, surely the near entirety of the commando forums, and the almost certain majority of competitive pvpers must be wrong, and you must be right. Sounds like the management at my work really.

 

 

edit Know what -would- be cool though? Real Charged bolts A la megaman. HOLD DOW?N A TO CHARGE YOUR CANNON FOR A BIG BLAST! Is your charged barrel up to 5? ULTRA SHOT! go go mega buster.

 

Or hell make grav round have a snare effect! You know gravity slows things down, heat signature could be heat exhaustion. there you go.

Edited by Hudgaar
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Plenty of SS have been posted showing Commandos doing half decent dps. ( I say half decent becasue I haven't seen any break 500k dmg 70 k protection and 50k healing yet. Not a one.)

 

what

 

 

sorry, but are you being sarcastic by chance?

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Allow me to debate your points.

 

 

Plenty of SS have been posted showing Commandos doing half decent dps. ( I say half decent becasue I haven't seen any break 500k dmg 70 k protection and 50k healing yet. Not a one.) That could be the fact that they're facing handicapped other teams. But, when it comes down to skilled play, I doubt any but the top tiers of commando will break 300 k.

 

Only a tank assassin, in an untimed match, against a team with very good healers, is going to pull those kind of numbers. What you should be looking at is averages and not outlying. I guess a Focus Guardian might also be able to pull that off, but it is unlikely.

 

I am hardly top tier, in fact I am pretty bad overall, but I regularly top 300k with both Gunnery and Assault. It isn't even hard.

 

Here are a couple from last night, these are hardly uncommon. I'll add more today if I can remember to screencap them. I'll even post some videos if I can shrink them down small enough for youtube.

 

http://imgur.com/a/OGzRM

 

Now on to your multi point post.

 

 

1. I'm wearing mostly optimized BM gear and a pair of WH gear pieces. ( I pretty much gave up serious pvp. I still pvp mind you, but its as combat medic now, and I just can't find the enthusiasm I had for my grav round.) I have just over 16k health, no im not slotting for endurance. that doesnt help my heals too much. However I'm struggling to find that 400 power mark. Must be a full war hero gear thing. I beat the 70% crit bonus brians in at arou 74-75% so maybe I'm using -too much- surge. But crits are king at pvp due to burst, so maybe not.

 

If you are under the 400 Bonus Damage, I called it power earlier but you the idea, then I strongly recommend you invest in Stims. Excotech Reflex Stims can be found on most servers for 10k credits, they last two hours and persist through death. An extra 128 Aim and 52 Power will go a long way to helping. If you have to burn someone use your Relic and an Adrenal, the PVP ones are awesome and cheap. What I am wearing is linked in my sig, just add in the Reflex Stim numbers above.

 

I still do sub par damage when compared with any class that can fire off a succession of instant activation abilities yes we have hib yes we have demo round/assault plastic, buuut what we dont have is access to those abilities all the time, nor any other instant all at once dmg ability. Sticky doesnt count as it requires time to set up in order to be counted as burst. Granted that time is spent going OMG LIGHTSABERS! NOT IN THE FACE! NOT IN THE FACE!

 

You are no worse off than any other ranged dps class. Think of it like this what happens if you throw a sticky, then start inducting a Grav Round? They both go off at the same time, imagine that. Using your abilities in the right order to generate burst and understanding things like travel time and others is key to making this work. Now let's say you just engaged an enemy, you start with Sticky > Grav Round > Demo Round. Assuming that you crit at least one of the three, that should be about 7-8K worth of damage instantly, even without stacking Grav Vortex. If you wait half a second you for the Grav Round to hit you can use HiB so that the total cost in Ammo during this time is a very effecient 2. Assault isn't as good, but it adds up quick over a few seconds, and the elemental damage from the burns are not resisted well.

 

2. Line of sight is just as much the friend of the enemy as all it takes for them to dodge your charge up grav round is to sneak arounda pillar themselves especially healers who will just choose the opposite pillar and hug around it forcing you to run for three to four seconds just to get in range once more and usually into the open arms of a hungry jugg/mara/ sithassin. At least you fed the children.

 

A healer that moves out of LOS isn't healing his mates either, a healer that isn't healing is about as useful as a dead one. If they skip out, change targets and burn. If you are chasing them, and get munched, that isn't an indication of a problem with the class.

 

3. You mention burst here and I wonder just how much you realizse your burst is worth without A. 5 gravity signatures. (thats 4.5 seconds to stack at minimum, in practice more) B.5 charged barrels ( 7.5 second stack minimum, again, in practice more.) C. Time spent waiting for sticky or AP to go boom. Burst? I guess you mean just firing that AP, that Demo round, and that Hib willy nilly, without the buffs/debuffs that make them at all worth while. ( And thats if one of your enemyes doesnt any of their numerous defensive cds or run los while you've been standing around celebrating your interruptable, pushbackable, [ yes its talented for less but it still is time spent] charge up abilities. Which might see you doing a buncha ones and twos, no yellow dmg what so ever, or the enemy suddenly going lol no 30% more hps, or lol heals, or lol shield, or lol invisible, or lol los.

 

Demo and Grav Round do work best with time to setup, just accept that you will do less damage in PVP than you will in PVE. The point here is that setting up burst for a 10-15% gain, isn't worth your time, that two stacks of Grav Round is all you need to make both Demo Round and HiB effective. When I first tried Gunnery back while leveling I quickly found out that using HiB and Demo Round on cooldown or as part of a planned burst did far more damage than waiting for buff/debuff numbers to reach optimal. The overall burst matters more than the total amount of the burst. As discussed previously, setting up with Sticky or AP isn't hard since our best abilities have inductions.

 

Yes we are interruptable and knockbackable, so is every other class with inductions and channels. It does sting a bit that we do not have a defensive cooldown that makes us uninterruptable for a short period of time, but it does not break the class, just makes it harder to play. Best thing I can offer for Gunnery is to have Charged Bolts on your bar so that if Grav Round gets interrupted and you get pushed with Full Auto you can move into Charged Bolts while waiting. Don't forget you get a resolve bar as well, and they cannot stop you forever. Assault can kite if someone tries to get in their way, and shouldn't be standing still for more than 3 seconds anyway.

 

4. Now, you say a commando killer... Thats what, every class but other commandos right? By the time you notice one of them " coming after you" its a split second too late as its usually A. force leap, force slow, force lightning, or any other number of abilities that either immediately get someone in your face, or B. snare you and is a sure sign that someone will be kicking you through death's door shortly. Yes you can play ring around the rosy with the sorc or merc brand of these people, even the snipers, but everything else is following your limping rear end around that pillar, poking you in the bum while you blow your whistle.

 

That would be a Marauder, Assassin, or DPS Operative. If one of these jump you, you are very likely going to die and it is probably as it should be. Anyone else gets in your face you can LOS them or ignore them and keep firing. You WILL die in PVP, you will sometimes die a lot, so does everyone else.

 

Being melodramatic about squishy are you, especially since you are not as squishy as you claim and have a bunch of defensive abilities, just makes you look silly. This isn't a faceroll class, and sometimes it will feel like a doormat if someone has figured you out or you pissed them off, deal with it. It isn't better for anyone else.

 

5. I will say your aoe is spot on, however that seems to be an assault spec only thing with the hail or bolts, seeing as hail of bolts I've seen has done a whopping 200 dmg a tic on some classes, i couldnt say which at this point and yes that is a special scenario, but it doesn't change the fact that for ammo cost its a terrible aoe. Then there is the no limit pulse cannon, that throws your hug the pillar out the window and if you're suddenly throwing lightning all about its a good bet you're suddenly target tasty # one. Especially as soon as they realize you're a commando, which is right away.

 

If you are seeing a 200 total damage out of Hail of Bolts, then were attacking a Guardian/Jugg with their -40% damage cooldown up. Hail of Bolts typically hits each target for between 2-3K, with defensive classes taking less due to shields/deflections. Over the course of the six second AE period, as Gunnery you are looking at a total cost of 3 Ammo for 12-15k worth of damage to multiple people, well worth the investment. It isn't as good for Assault since they don't recharge with crits, but still a manageable 4 Ammo.

 

You know those Juggs/Marauders that keep bugging you? Pulse Cannon burns through their defenses, same thing with Vanguards/PT who are far more troublesome than anyone but the best Marauders. You are attempting to twist what I said before, just because you want to stay near LOS areas doesn't mean you are always going to be there, or that someone isn't going to come to you.

 

6. Again with the crowd control. Well concussive round isn't exactly spamable, Concussive charge unless talented is about as strong as a stiff breeze, even talented has a higher cd then force leap, aaand the coup de grace, usually fills more resolve than force leap. Stock strike adds resolve too when talented i might add. Try and drop a cryo grenade and if -if!- their resolve bar isnt full from some jergoff force pushing them for the luls, then you might get that concussive round off. once every two minutes that is. (or not at all without that instant cast buf. Also better hope theres no dots on them or some one isn't wearing a saftey helmet and "Helping" by breaking it early.)

 

You have to use your pushbacks smartly, for example knocking people off a bridge, or into the pit, or off the control platforms, etc. They can be used defensively if needed, but that shouldn't be their primary function.

 

Nothing I or anyone else can do about bad players filling up resolve bars with worthless abilities, or breaking CC. Just remember it goes both ways, you have a resolve bar and the enemies have bad players as well.

 

7. Apparently my dps is reeeally really good if I get the chance to go through 8 GCDs plus time spent casting. Thats all well and good but I seem to notice that in the time it takes me to scream " I NEED AN ADULT!" I'm usually at less than half hp from a marauder. And by the time I've been able to squirt one or two tears I'm just waiting for them to throw the dirt on me... wait sorry to respawn.

 

So in short. If you find yourself doing AMAZING! in a warzone. It could be you're doing lots of illegal spice and you're hallucinating it all. It could be all that friendship and rainbows from your team keeping idiot pugs you're fighting off you and letting you go through a dps rotation ( and look at their dps i bet its higher by a margin of 100k. Go on, look at it.) It could also be you're by yourself and both your team and theires are in need of special schooling to retread tires and not to play video games.

 

Almost nothing here worth commenting on, being bitter about your class and not even trying isn't going to help you. Go play another class if you want easy, being good with a Commando is not easy. Sorry to break that to you.

 

Either way, congratulations, surely the near entirety of the commando forums, and the almost certain majority of competitive pvpers must be wrong, and you must be right. Sounds like the management at my work really.

 

Irrelevant really, what the community believes and the actual facts of any issue rarely match up. Much to their dismay reality will not confirm to what they want it, no matter how hard they think it should. Oh and listen to your management at work, in successful businesses they are more often than not correct no matter how stupid it may sound to you at the moment.

 

If you want to see what I think should be done to "fix" Commandos, you can go here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=453954

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I gathered lots of quotes from recent pvp topics there: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=467285

 

BTW I am uncomfortable with the "faceroll" term since my dictionary doesn't know it. But I read the whole post and I think you figured it even much better than me, so I trust it to be okay. I f you could just give me a small definition anyway?

 

Ah I would need explanation on 'OP Classes' and 'FOTMs' as well ;)

Edited by Boufsa
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I gathered lots of quotes from recent pvp topics there: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=467285

 

BTW I am uncomfortable with the "faceroll" term since my dictionary doesn't know it. But I read the whole post and I think you figured it even much better than me, so I trust it to be okay. I f you could just give me a small definition anyway?

 

Ah I would need explanation on 'OP Classes' and 'FOTMs' as well ;)

 

The term "faceroll" is bad MMO slang describing a class or person who is successful by just rolling their face around on the keyboard. Usually it is used to describe something that is so easy to play that player skill is not part of the equation for success.

 

"OP" is an acronym for "Over Powered" so an "OP Class" is an overpowered class. Right now a few classes have powerful cooldowns (Marauder, Tank Assassin) or insane survivability via healing (Operative healers) that makes them over powered in PVP, which leads to our next term.

 

"FOTM" stands for "Flavor of the Month" which happens when a game encourages rerolls into classes that are currently over powered by a significant amount. Before 1.2 it was Sorcerers, now it is Marauders, Power Techs, and healing Operatives. This is often used to describe players who reroll every new patch just so that are playing the "most powerful" class in the game.

Edited by azhrione
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