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*SPOILERS*Why was Revan and so much in kotor retconned


Ignotis

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Does new bioware really hate Obsidian or something? They've trivialized Revan, Kreia, hk-47

 

*SPOILERS*

 

 

A handful of mid level characters can kill ONE OF THE STRONGEST FORCE USERS IN THE GAME WHO MASTERED BOTH SIDES OF THE FORCE, DESTROYED THE MANDALORIANS AND DEFEATED THE SITH.

 

And apparently following the events of kotor Revan was simply made the emperors chump, AGAIN?

 

Seriously, does nobody find a problem with this terrible and obviously agenda filled writing to retcon everything kotor 2 and Revan?

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Revan didnt fought alone against all the mandalorians or Sith Empire. Even, he had to hide and sneak when you played Kotor I and sometimes ran away from Malak troops. He WASNT alone, but you fight against him ALONE, and the story of your player (example the Sith Warrior) shows everyone that you ARE the Emperors Wrath, the power of the emperor seems to be bestowed on you, who are a very strong Sith Warrior. Inquisitors have souls of very powerfull inquisitors inside what "gives" him strengh, the Bounty Hunter is a mandalorian, if Boba Fett was able to stand against Darth Vader (who wasnt able to kill him) i guess a fully grown mandalorian is strong enough to stand a Jedi/Sith and about the Imperial Agent, i belive not even being a Jedi or a Sith can prevent you from dying from a very far away shot in the middle of your eyes.
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Revan didnt fought alone against all the mandalorians or Sith Empire. Even, he had to hide and sneak when you played Kotor I and sometimes ran away from Malak troops. He WASNT alone, but you fight against him ALONE, and the story of your player (example the Sith Warrior) shows everyone that you ARE the Emperors Wrath, the power of the emperor seems to be bestowed on you, who are a very strong Sith Warrior. Inquisitors have souls of very powerfull inquisitors inside what "gives" him strengh, the Bounty Hunter is a mandalorian, if Boba Fett was able to stand against Darth Vader (who wasnt able to kill him) i guess a fully grown mandalorian is strong enough to stand a Jedi/Sith and about the Imperial Agent, i belive not even being a Jedi or a Sith can prevent you from dying from a very far away shot in the middle of your eyes.

 

It's still absurd. It would be the equivalent of 3-4 level 30's in WoW being able to kill Thrall.

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Research and continuity are hardly BioWares strong sides.

 

Take Valley of the Dark Lords.

 

Tales of the Jedi in 1994 showed the valley and the tomb of Marka Ragnos.

Jedi Academy in 2003 by Raven Software clearly used Tales as the source for their design.

Kotor in 2003, BioWare does their own take on the Valley.

Kotor: TSL in 2005, Obsidian uses BioWare's Valley for the sequel.

TOR in 2011, BioWare reshapes Valley of the Dark Lords again.

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There is alot here but your giving revan too much credit

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan

 

or massive text wall in tag

 

 

The Sith EmperorEdit

 

"I did not expect you to return."

―Vitiate to Revan[src]

 

Revan now turned his attention to the other end of the throne room where the Sith Emperor was seated on his throne, watching the events unfolding before him with cold detachment. The Jedi Master felt the physical manifestation of his opponent's malevolent power, but charged towards him nonetheless.[2]

 

While Scourge and Surik battled the Imperial guard, T3-M4 was busy sealing the two enormous and heavy doors. At the same time, as Revan charged towards the Sith Emperor, the latter unleashed a wave of energy that swept Revan off his feet and sent him flying backward. Revan twisted in midair so that he was able to roll with the impact when he landed. He quickly sprang back to his feet and again advanced towards his opponent.[2]

 

This time, Revan began to sense the oppressive presence of the dark side weighing down on him. The Emperor was trying to crush his will—to dominate and enslave his mind as he had before. However, Revan was prepared. Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. Revan then released the Force in its purest form. There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send the Emperor flying in the air in the backward direction.[2]

 

As Revan again charged towards his opponent, the Sith Emperor got up on his feet and countered with a powerful blast of Force lightning, which Revan intercepted with his lightsaber but the impact stopped his advance. The Sith Emperor unleashed another powerful blast of Force lightning, which was comprised of 3 deadly bolts. Revan batted the first aside with his lightsaber, ducked the second, and deflected the third back in the direction of its source. It struck the Emperor in the chest, sending him sliding several meters further backwards on the floor. For the first time the Sith's emotionless veneer cracked as he let out a primal hiss of hate. The sound sent shivers down Revan's spine.[2]

 

By this time, T3-M4 had finished the job of sealing the two enormous and heavy doors with a powerful contact adhesive to keep them shut, and Surik ordered him to help Revan.[2]

 

The Emperor rose to his feet, his robes smoking and singed where the Force lightning had struck him. His black eyes flashed red, and he raised both hands high above his head. Revan understood that he was gathering his power to unleash a swirling storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done before. The Jedi Master quickly calculated his options. Realizing he couldn't close the gap between them quickly enough to stop the assault, he gathered his own energy and spread his hands before him, ready to catch and absorb the Emperor's attack. A dozen devastating bolts of purple lightning arced from the Emperor toward Revan. He attempted to draw them in and contain them, but the Sith Emperor was far more powerful than Darth Nyriss. Revan felt his skin begin to boil and blister, and his mask began to melt and stick to his face as the Sith Emperor poured more and more power into him. Unnoticed by the Sith Emperor, T3-M4 closed in and unleashed his flamethrower at him, engulfing him in fire. The Sith Emperor cocooned himself in the Force to save himself from getting incinerated, breaking his focus on Revan in the process. Revan was badly injured by the extremely lethal swirling storm of pure dark side energy unleashed by the Sith Emperor, and was too weak to move. He managed to raise his head just in time to see the Sith Emperor turn on the brave little astromech droid. A tremor rippled through the air as the Sith Emperor unleashed the full power of the dark side on T3-M4, shattering him into an untold number of pieces in an instant, several of which rained down on Revan as superheated shrapnel.[2]

 

Revan then instinctively, called on the Force to give him strength and heal his wounds. The healing properties of the Force were powerful, but Revan's wounds were severe and he needed more time to restore his strength. The Sith Emperor decided to take advantage of the vulnerable state of his opponent, came close to him, grabbed his lightsaber, activated it, and prepared to strike.[2]

 

By this time, both Surik and Scourge had managed to cut down the members of the Imperial Guard including Captain Yarri. Surik then called to Scourge to help Revan, as she rushed forward towards the far end of the throne room to do so herself. But Scourge hesitated to do so, as he was confused by his earlier vision of their failure against the Sith Emperor. Surik was moving fast, but she was too far away to stop the Sith Emperor from killing the injured Jedi at his feet. In desperation, she hurled her lightsaber towards the Sith Emperor, guiding it with the Force so that it spiraled end-over-end to intercept the descending blade from the hand of her target, knocking it from the Sith Emperor's grasp, and sending it skittering across the floor. The Sith Emperor was taken by surprise by her assault. Scourge realized that she could have killed the Sith Emperor with her assault instead of choosing to save Revan's life but she wasted the golden opportunity. Surik was still rushing forward, using the Force to recall her lightsaber to her waiting hand. Scourge then sensed hesitation and uncertainty in the Sith Emperor as he tried to evaluate the strength and weaknesses of his new foe, and rushed forward to join Surik and Revan. Surik positioned herself between the Sith Emperor and Revan, valiantly protecting her wounded friend. As Scourge reached them, Revan managed to stand up again after healing his wounds with the Force. He then reached out with the Force and his lightsaber sprang from the floor and into his waiting grasp.[2]

 

The Sith Emperor expressed his displeasure at inaction of Scourge, which led him to wonder if the Sith Emperor was stalling for time for his Imperial Guard to break through the sealed doors. Revan reminded the Sith Emperor that Scourge had come to his senses by realizing the true depth of his twisted nature. In response, the Sith Emperor made it clear that Scourge will also meet the same fate as his Jedi allies, if he has sided with them. Revan pointed out to the Sith Emperor that he cannot defeat all three of them but the Sith Emperor remained optimistic. For Scourge, the universe suddenly seemed frozen in place, as if time itself had stopped. He realized he was at a crux in history; fate and destiny would be forever altered in the next few moments. The Force washed over him in a wave, and many possible outcomes flickered through his mind simultaneously. In some, Revan triumphed and the Sith Emperor was no more. In others, the Sith Emperor defeated Revan and proceeded to reduce the entire galaxy into an empty wasteland. Scourge also saw variations of his own life and death played out over and over in every conceivable way, shape, and form. He had to choose, but there was no way to know which was the most likely outcome, or what actions of his would lead to which results. Revan had said visions could guide the Jedi, but for Scourge they brought nothing but confusion. The moment passed and the universe began to move again, though everything seemed to be happening in slow motion.[2]

Betrayal of ScourgeEdit

 

As Revan and Surik stepped forward to initiate the final confrontation, Scourge realized that he had to act now. In a sudden moment of clarity, Scourge saw a vision of the Sith Emperor lying defeated at the feet of a powerful Jedi but that Jedi was neither Revan and nor Surik. The Sith Lord had made up his mind. Instead of advancing with his current Jedi allies, Scourge positioned himself directly behind Surik. There was a flicker in his consciousness as the universe snapped back to full speed, and he slid the blade of his lightsaber between her shoulders. Surik gasped and toppled forward, dead before she hit the floor. Revan's attention got diverted by this move and he was shocked. The distraction gave the Sith Emperor the opportunity he needed, and he unleashed another powerful blast of Force lightning into the Revan's chest. The Jedi Master was caught unprepared and lost consciousness.[2]

 

The Sith Emperor demanded Scourge to explain his position, who in order to save his skin, lied that the Jedi were in league with Nyriss, and that he led them to him so they could be killed. The Sith Emperor asked Scourge to prove his loyalty by killing Revan. Scourge walked over to the position of the knocked out Jedi Master and raised his lightsaber to do so, but the Sith Emperor telepathically prevented Scourge from doing so, and stated that he believed him. The Sith Emperor wanted Revan alive, as he still had one more use for him. The Sith Emperor also promised Scourge of a worthy reward in return of his services to him.[2]

StasisEdit

 

Revan was trapped in a room that was part laboratory, part prison cell, and held in stasis in a special product of Sith sorcery; he couldn't feel his body or the passage of time, but was still conscious. He could sense a mysterious 'powerful presence' near him, but was unaware of its identity. The 'presence' Revan felt was actually the Force ghost of Meetra Surik, dwelling in the same room to help him in any way possible.

 

During his imprisonment, Revan was subjected to continuous telepathic assault by the Sith Emperor, who attempted to probe his mind and gain useful information, regarding the Republic, to plan his invasion accordingly. He also fed on Revan's Force energy to satiate his hunger. Unbeknownst to the Sith Emperor, Revan used the Dark Lord's telepathic assault against him by probing his mind, and manipulate it by planting seeds of doubt in it in an attempt to delay his plans as long as possible. In addition, Revan was replenishing his Force energy by feeding on the powerful presence near him (i.e. the Force ghost of Meetra Surik) to remain strong in his struggle against the Sith Emperor. He also used the Force to instill comfort and hope in the minds of his family members across the span of the galaxy. Apparently, he was able to hold Lord Vitiate off for centuries, as the Sith Emperor didn't attack the Republic for at least 300 years, more than long enough for Revan's son to grow up and never face the fear of total annihilation.[2]

300 Years LaterEdit

 

"Only I have been both Jedi and Sith and found clarity in the Force. Only I understand him and his death is my responsibility."

―Revan, regarding the Sith Emperor[src]

 

Revan after being freed from stasis.

After 300 years, the Sith finally invaded the Republic, resulting in the Great Galactic War. Revan, however, managed to stop the war by manipulating the Emperor into believing that peace was in his best interest, resulting in the Treaty of Coruscant. However, the peace was fragile, and broke down after a decade. During this time, Meetra appeared to a Jedi named Oteg and informed him of Revan's imprisonment. The Jedi Master assembled a strike force that raided the planet Taral V before attacking the prison itself. A strike team infiltrated the prison and managed to bring down the defenses, which included Grand Moff Rycus Kilran, and finally freed Revan.

 

When he was freed, Revan was horrified at first, believing that the Emperor could now continue his plans without any hindrance. However, after Meetra appeared to him and explained that the peace was already broken, Revan decided to go with the Republic forces. Revan traveled to Tython, where he told the Jedi Council everything he knew about the Emperor and the Empire. After this, Revan made his way to a place known as the Foundry. Here, he started to build an army of battle droids, whom he placed under HK-47's command, to destroy the Emperor and the Sith once and for all.

Revan's end Edit

 

"And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing. Now I know how you felt, old friend."

―Revan[src]

 

Revan's last stand

However, the Emperor knew how great a threat Revan posed, and assembled a team of his own to destroy him. This team came to the Foundry and, after fighting their way through the defenses (including HK-47), managed to reach Revan. Revan tried to persuade the members of the strike team to fight the Emperor, but they refused to listen and a fight ensued. Revan's powers proved formidable, but in the end the strike team managed to weaken him. As they closed in, Revan quoted the last words of Malak, saying that he now understood how he had felt back on the Star Forge. But before the final blow could be struck, Revan disappeared in a flash of light. Not a trace of him could be found. It was unknown whether he became one with the Force or somehow managed to escape.

 

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the reason you are able to beat Revan in TOR is because he went through 300 years of him being imprisoned where upon the Emperor was essentially stealing his life force the whole time. The Revan you see in TOR is a shell of his former self.
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It's still absurd. It would be the equivalent of 3-4 level 30's in WoW being able to kill Thrall.

 

If Thrall was 300 years being lifedrained by somekind of demigod like (for example) what Dragonmaw orcs did to Alextrasza then you would understand "why something lesser is able to beat something stronger".

 

Not always the strong wins, i though you would know it seeing football xD.

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Research and continuity are hardly BioWares strong sides.

 

Take Valley of the Dark Lords.

 

Tales of the Jedi in 1994 showed the valley and the tomb of Marka Ragnos.

Jedi Academy in 2003 by Raven Software clearly used Tales as the source for their design.

Kotor in 2003, BioWare does their own take on the Valley.

Kotor: TSL in 2005, Obsidian uses BioWare's Valley for the sequel.

TOR in 2011, BioWare reshapes Valley of the Dark Lords again.

 

Mostly because what they retconned was

 

- Mandalorians being a generic bipedal race

- Eradicating these:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/SunGem

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Coruscant-class_Heavy_Courier

 

- Turning:

 

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/6/65/Basilisk_war_droid.JPG

 

into

 

 

In fact the only bad retcon they've done was getting rid of the Tower of Hanoi from Naga Sadow's tomb.

Edited by Sireene
use of retarded - due to age of post, no action
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Well I'm not a big fan of the revan novel. They made Revan look like a chump, killed off the exile and my favorite little droid T3-M4. I only used T3 in both KOTOR alongside Revan/Exile. But they did kinda ruin revan for me in both TOR and the revan novel. Oh well.
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A handful of mid level characters can kill ONE OF THE STRONGEST FORCE USERS IN THE GAME WHO MASTERED BOTH SIDES OF THE FORCE, DESTROYED THE MANDALORIANS AND DEFEATED THE SITH.
There's nothing to suggest that Revan or Malak were exceptionally powerful in the Force. Revan's only claims to fame are being the strategic "genius" that realized the Republic could bleed the Mandalorians white through a war of attrition and being exceptionally wise in his endeavors to retain resources or assets as far as Sith go.

 

[uote]And apparently following the events of kotor Revan was simply made the emperors chump, AGAIN?

Yes, because Revan was never all that powerful to begin with. Only the fans who invested their personal identity in him as their avatar in the Star Wars mythos had any illusion to that.

 

Seriously, does nobody find a problem with this terrible and obviously agenda filled writing to retcon everything kotor 2 and Revan?
They didn't retcon Revan. They just showed him in a proper light. In fact I give kudos to Bioware and Karpshyn for making the Revan fanboys QQ as the character doesn't live up to their hyperbolic power fantasies.
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I think the simpliest reason for why Revan was retconed is due to the fact Revan at his strongest kinda makes a continuity error that would have made it hard for the future leading to the movies to exist.

 

Or he was never as strong as his fans wanted him to be as their personal Mary Sue.

Edited by DarthMoord
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He was everyone's mary sue when you play KoToR. Its the basic idea of being a self insert character.

 

Self-Insert/=Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is a self-idealized character without perceptible or major flaws. A self-insert is merely a character that speaks from the authors perspective. So whilst a Mary Sue is always a self-insert, a self aware author can make a self-insert that is not a Mary Sue by virtue of being aware of his flaws and why they're flaws. Revan as a character has flaws: When he was falling to the Dark Side and when he was Sith he showed blatant disregard for the life of others with his tactics in the Mandalorian Wars which amounted to 'overrun superior Mandalorian troops with masses of expendable Republic ones' and extremely covetous of power; as a Jedi he showed extreme lack of foresight (attempting to take on the Sith Empire without his friends) and naivety (trusting Scourge). The Fanboys disavow these flaws all-together, this is why for some he's a Mary Sue and for other simply a character.

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Um, I think Revan's power comes from, you know, beating Malak when he was amplified and made almost invincible by the Star Forge?

 

Heh, always amazed how that is never mentioned and people go " only claim to fame is he beat mandos and had good tactics". He was the strongest force user of his time... some people take their hatred of the fictional character Revan a tad bit too far... just don't get it.

Edited by JediArchives
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Um, I think Revan's power comes from, you know, beating Malak when he was amplified and made almost invincible by the Star Forge?
The Star Forge wasn't a force power amplification system, the Star Forge fed on the Force. And Malak wasn't powered by the Star Forge, he was just draining the life from the Jedi prisoners he had. Hell the easiest way to beat Malak was to kill his force-batteries first and then kill him.

 

He was the strongest force user of his time...

 

That's a lie. Nihilus, Sion, Vitiate, all have far greater showings than Revan. What can Revan do that compared to Sion's ability to live beyond death? What can Revan do to compare to Nihilus' ability to purge planets of life? At only ten Vitiate stripped a Sith Lord of his mind and powers with casual ease. Revan has done nothing to compare to these capabilities. Revan was powerful, but you fanboys really need to stop attributing things to him that did not occur.

Edited by DarthMoord
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