The old model, the ahrdcore were used to, was group were required.

 

Welcome to the new MMO model where group are optional, and you can *solo* a MMO up to last level.

 

See, by doing this they reach up to a more massive market. those who with to group still can, whereas the massive amount of casual player won't be forced to. And this is how the 100K subs of yesteryear "successful MMO" get eclipsed by multi million subs MMO : the multi million subs MMo simply more and more drop the hard core for casual, and since casual don't seem to care much on epeen.... I don't need to draw you a picture.

Do you REALLY want to go back to the model of games where do gain ANY XP is you HAVE to group? In FFXII once you hit level 10 no character or group under a full group can kill a mob your level. A level 20 cannot kill a level 15 solo. Yea THAT'S gonna make this game better.

I find it odd that MMO's require a reward to give incentive to play.

 

Where's the reward in most FPS and RTS games? de_dust in Counterstrike, played litterally 339 billion times with zip reward. Why can't one enjoy a WZ without a carrot being offered?

I agree with you there. People refuse to PvP BECAUSE they have the best gear. HUH!?!? NOW is the time to PvP BECAUSE you got the good gear.

I agree with you there. People refuse to PvP BECAUSE they have the best gear. HUH!?!? NOW is the time to PvP BECAUSE you got the good gear.

You can say this all you want, but the fact of the matter is that most people want some kind of reward for their time spent in the game--some sort of way to justify the time spent playing. Having fun IS rewarding, but for a game that's trying to entice players to stay hooked, you NEED to have that incentive to keep your player base forking out $15/month.

New age FPS and RTS games actually DO offer a form of reward in the form of ranking. You play better, you achieve a higher ranking. In TOR's case, your ranking is equated to the gear that you achieve, or in 1.2's case, a ranking as well. You think that if there wasn't competitive scoring in games like League of Legends that people would continuously play them? Some people like you might, but most wouldn't waste their time grinding away at something that doesn't offer any sort of progress. Hell, LoL is the perfect example of an epeen game that is remarkably successful for this very reason. If TOR wants to grow, it ABSOLUTELY needs this, and no one can even try to convince me otherwise.

Sad to say and admit, you're right about the epeen. Nice game for casual players though.

I am casual so I will grin and bear it.

This game has no epeen factor or skill factor and that is why my server is dying fast.

 

We have 4 guilds that have cleared all nightmare 16 man raid content. Countless others doing 8 man.

 

Most pvpers got all the battlemaster gear and I never see them on anymore because they either quit or are waiting for some sort of incentive to log in again.

 

I don't think this game lacked endgame content, it was just way too easy to beat and way too easy to get all the gear in the game, pve and pvp.

 

Whatever hardcore playerbase was/is here needs challenging content and a reason to farm it. Quality pvp players need a competitive situation and not just a stupid RNG grind.

 

1.2 better hurry and it better be incredible, with rated warzones and compelling/challenging content.............but it might already be too late.

 

You can argue all day about game is failing/successful or thriving/dying but I can only tell you what I witness on my own server as someone who cares, and I have seen our pop dwindling, with our hardcore playerbase bleeding out extremely fast.

 

Maybe you want the more hardcore players gone, maybe you dislike them for whatever reason, but the hardcore playerbase is a good base of an MMO, you don't want to lose them.

 

In short, this game needs more epeen and reasons for hardcore players to keep playing.

 

It is a short window to keep us here before we move onto the next big thing or end up going back to MMO's that we came from that are simply doing it better. I was patient, gave game a couple of months, wasn't going to jump ship so fast, but time is running short.

 

You only hear or have bad experiences with the minority of hardcore players. The majority of them are good people who absolutely drive MMO's because they care.

 

They are the ones who create awesome websites with strats and videos for bosses, or the math nerds who theorycraft all the best specs and how to gear and spreadsheets and 3rd party programs to make the game better if you are into that stuff.

 

They are the ones who are comfortable leading PUG raids (ops) in their sparetime or leading rated pvp teams.

 

They are the ones who run smaller dungeon/flashpoint content multiple times looking for specific gear or trying out a new spec or playing alts or maybe even just for fun, while a casual may run it only once just to see it, this makes more groups happening and more often!

 

They are the ones who run the best guilds and push content and develop rivalries and server communities in both PVE and PVP.

 

They are the ones who are very active on the GTN and help drive the server economy.

 

They are the ones willing to test new content on patches on the test servers.

 

You may not want to believe it or care, but losing your hardcore playerbase has a very important trickle down effect on the servers. They are the players that are around the most and you will notice it when they are gone, I already am noticing it and it is not good.

 

Edit: Added one of my other posts to this as I felt it was relevant and helped add to my original point.

..and if it was hard you would be complaining that it takes too long to reach BM or its too hard to beat Bosses X,Y & Z....blah blah blah same poop, different smell...next.

You can say this all you want, but the fact of the matter is that most people want some kind of reward for their time spent in the game--some sort of way to justify the time spent playing. Having fun IS rewarding, but for a game that's trying to entice players to stay hooked, you NEED to have that incentive to keep your player base forking out $15/month.

I guess we spend our money for different things. The fun and enjoyment I feel from playing is worth $15 for the entire month. I piece of pixilated gear will not make me feel as good as enjoyment and the stress relief I gain from having fun.

I totally agree with the OP on this issue and it seems anything that is even remotley in the difficult category is quashed by the dev's as soon as they can do it...

For an example I will point out the class quest at level 28 for the the Scoundrel and the Gunslinger, known as "The Lightspring"

This quest was quite difficult to complete because you had to learn how and when to use your interupt abilities and also maybe even learn to kite one boss away from the group so you can kill one at a time.

On the Smuggler forums peeps started to complain that this quest was to hard, can't complete it..etc, etc. So what does Bioware do? They give it the "EASY BUTTON" fix....

•The Lightspring: The toughness of Vaverone Zare and Nariel Pridence has been decreased. This mission can no longer be failed

I thought this quest was absolutely brilliant and I posted those thoughts in every single thread I could find complaining how difficult it was. So what do the dev's do?....

Pretty soon if they keep this up the only peeps playing SWTOR will be preschool kids because they will be the only ones who find any sort of challenge at all...

I guess we spend our money for different things. The fun and enjoyment I feel from playing is worth $15 for the entire month. I piece of pixilated gear will not make me feel as good as enjoyment and the stress relief I gain from having fun.

Sadly, I fear that you're the minority. I commend your enthusiasm for the game and I'm glad you're enjoying it without having to feel superior to those around you. The game really does need more players like you, but unfortunately, I fear the game's longevity as a P2P model doesn't ride on the likes of your kind as much as it does the competitive, epeen market

Carebears are the worst thing to happen to any MMO.

 

Carebear: - "I want stuff, but I don't want to have to invest any time or effort into it"

 

Games Designer:- "But what about the challenge, and the intricate narrative we have woven into the game experience?"

 

Carebear:- "If I'm not level 50 in a week and in full Rakata by the end of the day I'm quitting"

 

Games Designer:- "But if we give you everything, you will have earnt nothing. Its like giving Joe Public a Gold at the Olympics just so its would be fair"

 

Carebear:- "Look challenging content eats into my "fun" time. Its better if you just give me everything I want now so I can go back to having "fun" not really doing anything because there is no need for me to because I already have everything. Also while you're at it, I need you to nerf all content into the ground so I can do it without having to try, because trying means its hard and hard takes time and I only have time for "fun""

 

Games Designer:- "I don't know why I bothered"

Stopped reading at "Carebear". If you have an opinion, by all means state it but quit using stupid memes to make your point.

Sadly, I fear that you're the minority. I commend your enthusiasm for the game and I'm glad you're enjoying it without having to feel superior to those around you. The game really does need more players like you, but unfortunately, I fear the game's longevity as a P2P model doesn't ride on the likes of your kind as much as it does the competitive, epeen market

I like the game that SWTOR is. I am actually looking forward to other big MMO releases that might cater to the harder-core crowd to draw off that part of the population to where they'd be happier and allow this game to continue to do what it does and develop into the casual alternative. It seems like it would be a better situation all around if the market offered some variety instead of every game trying (unsuccessfully) to be all things to all gamers.

Stopped reading at "Carebear". If you have an opinion, by all means state it but quit using stupid memes to make your point.

/agree

Interesting, so you're saying you solo MMOs...

Actually, I mostly dual MMOs. I play with my wife. SWTOR is wonderful, it's just like playing a really really BIG game of KOTOR, but we can play together.

what the h e l l is "epeen"

I believe it's an abbreviation for "electronic p e n i s," referring to "macho" gamers waving their electronic phalli in an online equivalent of baboons showing their red and blue butts to each other to establish dominance.

I always thought "macho" meant you spent Saturday night schtupping the entire cheerleader squad, not that you played a computer game until a certain combination of bits was transmitted to your computer.

I guess we spend our money for different things. The fun and enjoyment I feel from playing is worth $15 for the entire month. I piece of pixilated gear will not make me feel as good as enjoyment and the stress relief I gain from having fun.

I feel much the same way you do. I'm 56, how old are you?

I suspect age, or more likely "life experience," has a lot to do with this. I don't need "rewards" other than a fun game, and I don't need to "improve my leet skillz;" I'm improving my skills by getting my second Master's degree, thanks for asking. I've done a fair amount of stuff in real life; this game is an idle doodle for me.

/agree

And I as well.

Sadly, I fear that you're the minority. I commend your enthusiasm for the game and I'm glad you're enjoying it without having to feel superior to those around you. The game really does need more players like you, but unfortunately, I fear the game's longevity as a P2P model doesn't ride on the likes of your kind as much as it does the competitive, epeen market

Unfortunately if it does go F2Play I will definitely NOT be playing it. One of the things I like is the PvP and the fact that we all are on an even playing field so now it comes down to skill. Once a F2Play model is introduced people will buy superior items and blah blah blah, well you know where this is going.

I feel much the same way you do. I'm 56, how old are you?

 

I suspect age, or more likely "life experience," has a lot to do with this. I don't need "rewards" other than a fun game, and I don't need to "improve my leet skillz;" I'm improving my skills by getting my second Master's degree, thanks for asking. I've done a fair amount of stuff in real life; this game is an idle doodle for me.

Perhaps, but for me it's that I've been through the insane gaming and decided that life is too short and got enough to stress over to go out and look for more while gaming. I can play. Damn good in my opinion and win or lose my trill comes from the battle not from the shiny. Now don't get me wrong I like to have my character looking good but it does not have to be some ultra rare item. My Shadow is wearing IMO the best looking custom gear in the game. It's social gear and easy to come by and I could see 20 people wearing it that takes nothing away from how good I believe my character looks.

You can say this all you want, but the fact of the matter is that most people want some kind of reward for their time spent in the game--some sort of way to justify the time spent playing. Having fun IS rewarding, but for a game that's trying to entice players to stay hooked, you NEED to have that incentive to keep your player base forking out $15/month.

 

New age FPS and RTS games actually DO offer a form of reward in the form of ranking. You play better, you achieve a higher ranking. In TOR's case, your ranking is equated to the gear that you achieve, or in 1.2's case, a ranking as well. You think that if there wasn't competitive scoring in games like League of Legends that people would continuously play them? Some people like you might, but most wouldn't waste their time grinding away at something that doesn't offer any sort of progress. Hell, LoL is the perfect example of an epeen game that is remarkably successful for this very reason. If TOR wants to grow, it ABSOLUTELY needs this, and no one can even try to convince me otherwise.

So what you're saying then, is that "If TOR wants to grow, it ABSOLUTELY needs" to become an FPS or RTS somehow, rather than the RPG is was designed, and promoted to be?

I think it's fair to say that the majority came to this game with the expectation that it's a "story driven RPG." So it makes sense that the majority are not concerned with anyone's e-peen, and will resent any efforts to get the devs to change the game into something it was never intended to be.

They have added, and are continuing to add, things for the e-peen crowd and yet that crowd won't be happy until they've turned the game into something else altogether.

Again.....This is NOT a FPS. This is NOT a RTS. This IS a RPG.

I like the game that SWTOR is. I am actually looking forward to other big MMO releases that might cater to the harder-core crowd to draw off that part of the population to where they'd be happier and allow this game to continue to do what it does and develop into the casual alternative. It seems like it would be a better situation all around if the market offered some variety instead of every game trying (unsuccessfully) to be all things to all gamers.

I feel the same. I find it so sad that here we have, finally, a true RPG mmo, and the loud minority is vehemently demanding that the game be changed.

I can only pray that BW will stick to their original, stated, intentions for this game. That's what drew most of us, with the exception of those who want it to be something it's not.

Reminds me of the old schtick about love & marriage...."I love you, you're perfect, now change."

I feel the same. I find it so sad that here we have, finally, a true RPG mmo, and the loud minority is vehemently demanding that the game be changed.

 

I can only pray that BW will stick to their original, stated, intentions for this game. That's what drew most of us, with the exception of those who want it to be something it's not.

 

Reminds me of the old schtick about love & marriage...."I love you, you're perfect, now change."

I'd stop short of calling it a "true RPG MMO" as the MMO aspect is probably a bit light to the general MMO player but, an "RPGMMO" might be a good new way to label it as a genre.

I can definitely understand the disappointment of those who bought it expecting something else or who really wanted a more competition-oriented SW game but, I do feel like all groups end up better served when each game aims at a more specific part of the market.

It's not just a matter of making one game do more things. Sometimes catering to one group means neglecting another and there is no way to make both happy. Seems like someone in the industry would be a lot more likely to make a more hard-core oriented game if they new they would have one less major game fighting to cater to them.

So what you're saying then, is that "If TOR wants to grow, it ABSOLUTELY needs" to become an FPS or RTS somehow, rather than the RPG is was designed, and promoted to be?

 

I think it's fair to say that the majority came to this game with the expectation that it's a "story driven RPG." So it makes sense that the majority are not concerned with anyone's e-peen, and will resent any efforts to get the devs to change the game into something it was never intended to be.

 

They have added, and are continuing to add, things for the e-peen crowd and yet that crowd won't be happy until they've turned the game into something else altogether.

 

Again.....This is NOT a FPS. This is NOT a RTS. This IS a RPG.

You left off the part where the game is actually supposed to be a "story driven MMORPG"--there's a big difference. That RPG foundation is already in place and the leveling experience in this game is rivaled by no others in the genre; however, where is the lasting appeal? You can tell me to roll an alt, and I'll respond with an "I don't enjoy playing alts when 80% of the content is exactly the same the second time through."

The leveling experience is always going to be story driven, and I expect Bioware to expand upon it with new quests, zones, etc. for alts. When that happens, I'll gladly re-roll a character and dive in. As it stands now, I have absolutely no desire to do so, so we're left with very little to do to appease players that would prefer to spend their time at max level developing their character.

As for my reference to RTS & FPS, I think you misconstrued where I was trying to go with that. I'm saying if TOR wants to grow, it needs systems in place to reward players for progression at max level--a way to compare themselves to others on the server (aka epeen) in a competitive environment. We're already seeing hints of this in 1.2 with the ability to play ranked PvP matches via solo or group queues. This is going to be an excellent feature for PvP players and I'm confident that it will bring players in. Those are the kinds of features that will keep subscribers coming back for more. For some reason, many people just don't get tired of grinding to be the best.

I feel the same. I find it so sad that here we have, finally, a true RPG mmo, and the loud minority is vehemently demanding that the game be changed.

 

I can only pray that BW will stick to their original, stated, intentions for this game. That's what drew most of us, with the exception of those who want it to be something it's not.

 

Reminds me of the old schtick about love & marriage...."I love you, you're perfect, now change."

I don't understand this, where exactly is the story after you've finished your class quest?

I feel the same. I find it so sad that here we have, finally, a true RPG mmo, and the loud minority is vehemently demanding that the game be changed.

 

I can only pray that BW will stick to their original, stated, intentions for this game. That's what drew most of us, with the exception of those who want it to be something it's not.

 

Reminds me of the old schtick about love & marriage...."I love you, you're perfect, now change."

I hear ya....do I ever hear ya.

100% agree.

I want this game to stay true to it's roots, and keep the story front and center.

I feel much the same way you do. I'm 56, how old are you?

 

I suspect age, or more likely "life experience," has a lot to do with this. I don't need "rewards" other than a fun game, and I don't need to "improve my leet skillz;" I'm improving my skills by getting my second Master's degree, thanks for asking. I've done a fair amount of stuff in real life; this game is an idle doodle for me.

May be on to something there. I'm pushing 60...hard. If I want a challenge, real life offers and has offered plenty. I play games to relax and socialise.

And I don't feel the need for validation from total strangers, especially in pixel-form.

Now...get off my damned lawn.

personally, i'd love to see the best players on my server "Waggle their peen" because i would see them and think that one day, it will be me waggling my peen. Even if i never do get to that point in my play, it gives me something to strive for.

 

I'm lvl 39 and i'm looking forward to my...um...faster mount?

 

at lvl 39 in WoW i was dreaming about the day where my druid might possibly wield the hand of rag.

I look forward to the new content I have not even seen yet and wonder what will lay ahead. I think many people need to understand that this game is still huge especially since it is a young release but it will be growing even more.

It lacks the content of the other game that is 7 years older then it and THAT is the honest truth of all this. It is hardly perfect but they are working on it. I have yet to set foot in an operation and I know I have also yet to experience the content that is in place. I do not suspect I will see it all before the next big release.

So I would suggest those who feel it lacks so much for them to do to either wait for content, make less flame worthy comment and offer sound suggestions, or seek their entertainment elsewhere.

I look forward to the new content I have not even seen yet and wonder what will lay ahead. I think many people need to understand that this game is still huge especially since it is a young release but it will be growing even more.

 

It lacks the content of the other game that is 7 years older then it and THAT is the honest truth of all this. It is hardly perfect but they are working on it. I have yet to set foot in an operation and I know I have also yet to experience the content that is in place. I do not suspect I will see it all before the next big release.

 

So I would suggest those who feel it lacks so much for them to do to either wait for content, make less flame worthy comment and offer sound suggestions, or seek their entertainment elsewhere.

purple truth here 100% agree.