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MAJOR SPOILER Please don't bring him back.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
MAJOR SPOILER Please don't bring him back.

Chaosataoist's Avatar


Chaosataoist
08.03.2020 , 08:11 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
Plus, Ossus-Onslaught "story" is so bland, boring and banal that at this stage even Emperor V's 23837th return is more interesting than one big nothing the story became after Nathema finale. Thats how bad things are.
So you actually prefer the infantile sopa opera scribbled by a petulant teenager that was KOTET and KOTFE to the return of the Jedi/Sith conflict that lets you choose one of six outcomes? Yeah, that makes sense.

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
Yesterday , 01:09 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
So you actually prefer the infantile sopa opera scribbled by a petulant teenager that was KOTET and KOTFE to the return of the Jedi/Sith conflict that lets you choose one of six outcomes? Yeah, that makes sense.
i definitely prefer any story that took more than 5 minutes to write. EVEN if imperfect or even a disappointement. And there are no six outcomes in Onslaught. We picked a flavour of dialogues and nothing changed in the galaxy. Every player still got same cutscene later on with Task Force Nova and The Hand. Galaxy is still locked in stalemate war. Corellia changed nothing. One decent aspect (Saboteur path with a couple of exclusive cutcenes) aint enough to salvage completion lack of ambition, fresh ideas and passion in Ossus-Onslaught story era. Its a low effort rehash of Corellia/Ilum from vanilla game. I want new, not remaking same old. Look how that turned out for Sequel Trilogy...
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Chaosataoist
Yesterday , 07:44 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
i definitely prefer any story that took more than 5 minutes to write. EVEN if imperfect or even a disappointement. And there are no six outcomes in Onslaught. We picked a flavour of dialogues and nothing changed in the galaxy. Every player still got same cutscene later on with Task Force Nova and The Hand. Galaxy is still locked in stalemate war. Corellia changed nothing. One decent aspect (Saboteur path with a couple of exclusive cutcenes) aint enough to salvage completion lack of ambition, fresh ideas and passion in Ossus-Onslaught story era. Its a low effort rehash of Corellia/Ilum from vanilla game. I want new, not remaking same old. Look how that turned out for Sequel Trilogy...
Let's see, in KOTFE an "Alliance" is formed to take down an "Empire", complete with its own S(torm)kytroopers, wherein a family of force-sensitives is fighting amongst each other. Yeah, some really ambitious, groundbreaking stuff there. Oh, right, but this time, there's a "sister"!

I'm sure the chapter where every class, even a trooper, runs around a mystical forest listening to barely coherent babble about the Force (complete with backpack - just like Luke!) took a lot of time and effort to write.

In the end, KOTFE didn't change anything either. The player destroys the sudden, new threat Bioware pulled out of their ***, while losing their "throne", their super awesome spaceship, etc.

Meanwhile, Onslaught ends with either much of the Republic fleet obliterated or much of the Imperial fleet destroyed in a failed attack on the supposedly revolutionary shipyard. The player can end up back on their chosen side, apart from it, or even secretly plotting against it. The agent can become Keeper FFS.

On top of that, various characters react to you differenly depending on who you are, whether you met them before or what you did previously. There are a lot of references to what happened before and it really feels like a continuation of the player's story, not some weird, fever dream tangent.

I just hope they continue building on this and all the choices - whether you're a loyalist or independent, etc. - make a difference. Because it would be easy for them to squander this too.

(Sorry for derailing the thread, I was just curious what the argument was).

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Pietrastor
Yesterday , 11:44 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
Let's see, in KOTFE an "Alliance" is formed to take down an "Empire", complete with its own S(torm)kytroopers, wherein a family of force-sensitives is fighting amongst each other. Yeah, some really ambitious, groundbreaking stuff there. Oh, right, but this time, there's a "sister"!
Yes yes, there was also an entire faction of sentient AIs playing massive role in Original Trilogy with its own agendas, goals, taking over the "Empire" throuought the course of the story etc. That alone makes KOTFEET 10 times more original than anything in Onslaught. Love how you just couldn't find a way to work that one out into your "remake" synopsis of KOTFE so instead u pretended it didn't happen.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
I'm sure the chapter where every class, even a trooper, runs around a mystical forest listening to barely coherent babble about the Force (complete with backpack - just like Luke!) took a lot of time and effort to write.
Good comparsion. That chapter indeed probably took as much effort to write as Onslaught = little. The 'tiny' difference being that there are 15 other chapters.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
In the end, KOTFE didn't change anything either. The player destroys the sudden, new threat Bioware pulled out of their ***, while losing their "throne", their super awesome spaceship, etc.
It change the state-of-the-galaxy and power balance for good 6+ years of in-game time and some 2+ years real time. Did Onslaught change even a second? Nope.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
Meanwhile, Onslaught ends with either much of the Republic fleet obliterated or much of the Imperial fleet destroyed in a failed attack on the supposedly revolutionary shipyard.
And the stalemate war goes on like usual business. Such impact...

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
The player can end up back on their chosen side, apart from it, or even secretly plotting against it. The agent can become Keeper FFS.
That's good aspect of Onslaught. Unfortunately, one of the very few ones.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
On top of that, various characters react to you differenly depending on who you are, whether you met them before or what you did previously. There are a lot of references to what happened before and it really feels like a continuation of the player's story, not some weird, fever dream tangent.
Are there exclusive missions for each class? No? Then lets not get hysterical about Onslaught feeling like a continuation of player story. SOR was more of that if anything.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
I just hope they continue building on this and all the choices - whether you're a loyalist or independent, etc. - make a difference. Because it would be easy for them to squander this too.
And now we get to a whole different level of debate - do you think current Bioware is capable of that? Or even 2012 Bioware (ME3's ending choices and consequences anyone?) I think I'm on the realistic side assuming that it will amount to nothing more than flavour dialogue. It's nice, but I would rather have more ambitious & bigger storylines in exchange, even if without "class flavour".

tl;dr if you're so easily plactated by class-dialogue flavour that you'll eat up even the shortest, blandest and most banal story imaginable then there's nothing I can say to convince you. Regardless of flaws & flauts of KOTFE. It featured long, multi-layered story with many fresh ideas (even if accompanied by rehashed ones). You can't say that about Onslaught and it's not a matter of opinion but simple facts.
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Chaosataoist
Yesterday , 12:44 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
Yes yes, there was also an entire faction of sentient AIs playing massive role in Original Trilogy with its own agendas, goals, taking over the "Empire" throuought the course of the story etc. That alone makes KOTFEET 10 times more original than anything in Onslaught. Love how you just couldn't find a way to work that one out into your "remake" synopsis of KOTFE so instead u pretended it didn't happen.
Love how you pretend that was a big part of the story. It's the last few chapters in, let's see, 25 chapters of inconsequential running around and asinine dialogue. They were bound to stumble on something that wasn't completely derivative. Now derivative of what's been done in Star Wars, mind you, because that whole storyline (if you can call it that) wasn't original by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
Good comparsion. That chapter indeed probably took as much effort to write as Onslaught = little. The 'tiny' difference being that there are 15 other chapters.

It change the state-of-the-galaxy and power balance for good 6+ years of in-game time and some 2+ years real time. Did Onslaught change even a second? Nope.

And the stalemate war goes on like usual business. Such impact...
And that's the main problem with your comparison, you act as if the story started in Ossus, and continued in Onslaught, is done. You're comparing 25 mind-numbing chapters to essentially three planet missions and a flashpoint. If you wanted to be fair, by the time you're done with Onslaught, you're still trying to escape Zakuul in KOTFE.

I'm glad you like the fact that everything that "change the state-of-the-galaxy and power balance for good 6+ years" happened off-screen while you were frozen in carbonite. Great game there. I definitely prefer to actually make choices myself in a game and see what happens.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
Are there exclusive missions for each class? No? Then lets not get hysterical about Onslaught feeling like a continuation of player story. SOR was more of that if anything.
Jesus, at least try to think these answers through first. You mean that one class-related mission on Rishi? While both factions are doing the exact same thing on all three planets?

No, there are no exclusive missions for each class in Onslaught and we'll never get that again. But at least it makes a little difference if, for example, you're a Mandalorian when talking to Indigo. Or if you are a Sith Warrior who met Malora back on Korriban. That's what I mean by a continuation. You're not forced to do everything everyone else does and things happen a little differently depending on who your character is. And then, of course, are the choices you can make regarding your own future and the outcome of the current conflict I already mentioned. Something you don't have anywhere in the entire 25 chapters - yes, you have to take down Valkorion and Vailyn and yes, you have to take the throne. Keeping Arcann alive or letting Scorpio go has absolutely no impact on anything.

You should stick to on-rail shooters if you just want to go and do what the developers tell you to.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
And now we get to a whole different level of debate - do you think current Bioware is capable of that? Or even 2012 Bioware (ME3's ending choices and consequences anyone?) I think I'm on the realistic side assuming that it will amount to nothing more than flavour dialogue. It's nice, but I would rather have more ambitious & bigger storylines in exchange, even if without "class flavour".
No, that's not a debate, you're just assuming a lot. I'm talking about what we already have. Plus you assume they can't pull off a decent continuation of what's already in the game, but can pull off a completely new and more ambitious storyline? And you're being the realistic one? Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
tl;dr if you're so easily plactated by class-dialogue flavour that you'll eat up even the shortest, blandest and most banal story imaginable then there's nothing I can say to convince you. Regardless of flaws & flauts of KOTFE. It featured long, multi-layered story with many fresh ideas (even if accompanied by rehashed ones). You can't say that about Onslaught and it's not a matter of opinion but simple facts.
I guess you haven't been around here long. There's a reason the developers added a way to skip all of your beloved KOTFE and KOTET so you just don't have to deal with the same repetitive nonsense on each new character. The majority of people have welcomed Ossus and Onslaught as a step in the right direction, a return to what made this game great. Why do you think so many players left during the whole KOTFE era? If you don't believe me, ask anyone or google it yourself. KOTFE killed the potential SWTOR had.

So no, nothing you wrote is fact. You are the minority and it's funny to me how blindly you can defend that crap.

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Pietrastor
Yesterday , 01:11 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
Love how you pretend that was a big part of the story.
Love how you pretend it's not.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
And that's the main problem with your comparison, you act as if the story started in Ossus, and continued in Onslaught, is done. You're comparing 25 mind-numbing chapters to essentially three planet missions and a flashpoint. If you wanted to be fair, by the time you're done with Onslaught, you're still trying to escape Zakuul in KOTFE.
It's been 1,5 years since Ossus. Entire KOTFEET was over within 1,5 years. Unless your argument is "ohh but just wait another 5 years of rehashed Imp vs Rep and something fresh will finally happen". There's a reasonable amount of time in which a story should become interesting and Ossus/Onslaught is way past that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
Jesus, at least try to think these answers through first. You mean that one class-related mission on Rishi? While both factions are doing the exact same thing on all three planets?
Of course I mean that. That's an ACTUAL CLASS CONTENT, not some dialogue flavour. And I hated rest of SOR story but in comparsion to Onslaught it actually did include true continuation of class stories & characters lol. Do you even try to think your anserws through?

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
I guess you haven't been around here long. There's a reason the developers added a way to skip all of your beloved KOTFE and KOTET
Just like they allowed skipping class stories, ROTHC, SOR, and will do so with Onslaught lol?

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
So no, nothing you wrote is fact. You are the minority and it's funny to me how blindly you can defend that crap.
It absolutely is a fact that Onslaught is a short & banal story
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Chaosataoist
Yesterday , 01:22 PM | #47
Wow, you skipped a lot. Okay then, let's wrap this up, my last two cents. (By the way, rushing to post so you can't even get the formatting right is never a good sign).

Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
It's been 1,5 years since Ossus. Entire KOTFEET was over within 1,5 years. Unless your argument is "ohh but just wait another 5 years of rehashed Imp vs Rep and something fresh will finally happen". There's a reasonable amount of time in which a story should become interesting and Ossus/Onslaught is way past that.
No, my argument, once again, is what the player does. I don't care what someone tells me happened while "I was away". This is a game, not a documentary. And you do far more significant things in the same amount of playtime in Ossus and Onslaught than you do in KOTFE.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
Of course I mean that. That's an ACTUAL CLASS CONTENT, not some dialogue flavour. And I hated rest of SOR story but in comparsion to Onslaught it actually did include true continuation of class stories & characters lol. Do you even try to think your anserws through?
So you hated SOR too? I bet KOTFE is probably the only thing you did like in STWOR. Enough said, I shouldn't have bothered.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
Just like they allowed skipping class stories, ROTHC, SOR, and will do so with Onslaught lol?
For continuity's sake, you can't skip one without the other. Guess which part people are actually skipping?

Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
It absolutely is a fact that Onslaught is a short & banal story
Sure, buddy, you do you.

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Pietrastor
Yesterday , 04:04 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
No, my argument, once again, is what the player does. I don't care what someone tells me happened while "I was away". This is a game, not a documentary. And you do far more significant things in the same amount of playtime in Ossus and Onslaught than you do in KOTFE.
Such as 1 conflict on Ossus and 1 battle over Meridian complex. That's about it of grand events taking place in the past 1,5 years.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
So you hated SOR too? I bet KOTFE is probably the only thing you did like in STWOR. Enough said, I shouldn't have bothered.
Oh look, you're wrong again welp. I enjoyed ROTHC story very much, love Agent, Inquisitor, Trooper Act 1 and many other sections. Guess you need to find excuses to hate on all of that now to make my criticism of Onslaught "invalid".

Quote: Originally Posted by Chaosataoist View Post
For continuity's sake, you can't skip one without the other. Guess which part people are actually skipping?
They're skipping whatever they feel like and it's possible to skip almost everything in the game now. Same will happen with Onslaught, regardless of continuity. Your argument again?
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