The one thing I think every new MMO lacks is the sense of community that I loved in pre-nge SWG.

It was just a game that rewarded socializing/being part of the community, which I feel an MMO should do.

What I mean:

Actually RELYing on Crafters for goods. They mostly made the best weapons/armor.

Relying on Doctors for buffs for both PvE & PvP generally and even a new player benefitted massively from them.

Relying on Entertainers for the exact same reason.

Again, relying on crafters - they made it all, mounts, buff food, medical supplies, clothes, buildings, creatures, etc.

PvP Being real world PvP

Real Guild PvP Wars <3 <3

The best part:

PLAYER CITIES/housing/guild halls/etc

The player housing/city system was simply astounding, and they had the ability to fully function with mission terminals, factional bases, cantinas, shuttleports, med center, etc.

I don't understand why no game to this day has implemented or even tried to implement another player housing/city system like this. It was such a huge success in SWG. It just meant so much to have your 'home' in SWG. I put so much time into customizing my home and making it my home, as well as my home in my Ship.

I'm not just complaining about SW:ToR - just MMO's in general these days that are way more focused on providing PvE & PvP content that gives to the players, rather than put some focus on Players giving to Players and a strong community benefitting the game.

I have to say, if you took the average MMO player today especially from a game like WoW and put them into old SWG I can't imagine how bad it would be.. so used to rarely socializing with other players outside their own guild.

Don't get me wrong, I'm LOVING SW:ToR - basically because it's like a new WoW for me that I haven't seen decline.

Personally I feel that WoW is a great game, but it has also had 7 years of development in it now - I just feel that the content in WoW sucks and is wasting the good design WoW has. But this isn't about WoW.

Just saying I love SW: ToR - but still hope some day for another MMO to come out that rivals the community orientation SWG had.

Anyone else feel this way?

I have to agree with you on many of your points. I was in SWG near it's beginning and after the great exodus from SWG, I've never seen that kind of comradery in any MMO since then.

I thought just crossed my mind while I was writing this though... if SWG is like Star Wars: A New Hope and SWTOR is like The Empire Strikes Back, I think we're going to be having ALOT of fun for quite a long time

RIP SWG

It went out not with a bang, but with a whimper.

Go play SWG then.

Thanks for proving you can't read. This wasn't a thread saying Sw:ToR is bad.

The best part:

To do the actual gameplay content, all you needed was to get buffs from a bot and then mash 1 button. No group required.

Rose tinted glasses.

I concur with the original post. Well done.

Mistwraith

He's not saying anything about the combat system at all...

For all SWGs faults (it had many) it did have the right idea about many things, and I really do agree with OP on all of these points...

Getting a perfect jawa ion rifle crafted was as much a social thing as it was a PvE thing, and I remember the preparations before a city raid, or planning ambushes to take down a dark jedi

The best part:

 

To do the actual gameplay content, all you needed was to get buffs from a bot and then mash 1 button. No group required.

 

Rose tinted glasses.

You completely missed my point as well.

I didn't say the grinding was great, I'm talking about the COMMUNITY.

I swear if you aren't going to read the entire post in a topic like this, why respond?

Success is measured by subs aka dollar signs. While Galaxies brought something back into the MMO market (sorry but UO had the first player houses that were not kept in a separate instance), the small amount of subs the game had overall showed that this was NOT what the majority of players wanted. And when I say small, small compared to what EQ had during its peak.

The problem I had with the player housing and cities, it was a eye sore on the landscape. Nothing like running around and seeing harvesters everywhere. Even though I played that game for awhile, I never owned a house and actually farmed for my mats for crafting. Housing just never influenced me on how a game community is. How the players treat each other and whether they are civilized on the forums while debating certain game mechanics plays a much larger role to me for a game community. 90% of the time if the forums are respectable and civil in tone, the players in game help each other out.

As for buffs, if you consider an entertainer, who were 99% of the time afk, as a key community point, thanks but no thanks. Afk macro players does not make a good community; it just makes somebody gain a master profession while they're at work and nowhere near.

You also didn't seem to play EQ. When PoP came out, PoT was where EVERYBODY was at and buffs were always going out and believe me, everybody wanted buffs; during vanilla EQ, it was the EC tunnels which also served as the bazaar/auction house. All in all, as someone who has played both EQ and SWG, both their communities were the preferred communities in MMO's and not the cesspool we have gotten with the recent games, prime example WoW.

Success is measured by subs aka dollar signs. While Galaxies brought something back into the MMO market (sorry but UO had the first player houses that were not kept in a separate instance), the small amount of subs the game had overall showed that this was NOT what the majority of players wanted. And when I say small, small compared to what EQ had during its peak.

 

The problem I had with the player housing and cities, it was a eye sore on the landscape. Nothing like running around and seeing harvesters everywhere. Even though I played that game for awhile, I never owned a house and actually farmed for my mats for crafting. Housing just never influenced me on how a game community is. How the players treat each other and whether they are civilized on the forums while debating certain game mechanics plays a much larger role to me for a game community. 90% of the time if the forums are respectable and civil in tone, the players in game help each other out.

 

As for buffs, if you consider an entertainer, who were 99% of the time afk, as a key community point, thanks but no thanks. Afk macro players does not make a good community; it just makes somebody gain a master profession while they're at work and nowhere near.

 

You also didn't seem to play EQ. When PoP came out, PoT was where EVERYBODY was at and buffs were always going out and believe me, everybody wanted buffs; during vanilla EQ, it was the EC tunnels which also served as the bazaar/auction house. All in all, as someone who has played both EQ and SWG, both their communities were the preferred communities in MMO's and not the cesspool we have gotten with the recent games, prime example WoW.

Player cities played a massive role in the community, most people on the forums took part in events held in cities, player houses offered a spot for in game meetings other than off the wall places, a great way to set the mood. I wasn't much of an RPer, but during planing for some mass PvP raidings and what not, we'd gather in the main hall of our guild hall and have a forum for strategy, with epic banners torches set about all sitting in mustifarianish chars at large black tables with white running lights, facing the guild council at the front of the hall. I was RPing and didn't even know it.

it was that sort of thing that built the community. the forums just made it much easier. plus it was a home for the trolls to PvP against forum mods.

Player cities played a massive role in the community, most people on the forums took part in events held in cities, player houses offered a spot for in game meetings other than off the wall places, a great way to set the mood. I wasn't much of an RPer, but during planing for some mass PvP raidings and what not, we'd gather in the main hall of our guild hall and have a forum for strategy, with epic banners torches set about all sitting in mustifarianish chars at large black tables with white running lights, facing the guild council at the front of the hall. I was RPing and didn't even know it.

 

it was that sort of thing that built the community. the forums just made it much easier. plus it was a home for the trolls to PvP against forum mods.

ahh the memories, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Hell our guild was one of those BIG guilds, we weren't a spam invite guild but we were big and didn't invite anyone someone didn't know. It was great, in our city you could ALWAYS find at least 7-10 people in the Cantina. Over the weekends and in prime time we'd have 15-25 and we weren't even technically RP'ers. Yet RP would happen just out of fun, and we'd just chat. Sure we could chat in guild chat, but whats the fun in that when you can hang around the cantina with guild dancers/musicians and others?

Then all the chilling we did on each others space ships, especially the Yacht - that was fun!

I can see player cities in the future, but the planets would have to be majorly increased in size. I remember how packed Naboo was of just random houses all over the planet.

But with the ships we all get in SW:TOR, I see that as a good replacement for my house in SWG. And I even heard that there might or already be capital ships for guilds? Sign me up.

RIP SWG. But only Pre-CU. It's all about the original.

I agree with the concept, but let's not forget that most cities became ghosttowns almost immediately. Very little incentive to do anything in a player city that couldn't be done faster and more efficiently in a place like Coronet or Mos Eisley.

I'd love to see a player city system implemented in TOR at some point, but it would be a waste of developers man hours if it wasn't going to be more than just an aesthetical thing. I'd rather see those hours go into something quest / end game / expansion / space related.

As for the crafters being needed, I think for Bioware they hit a broader assortment of players by saying "You can get it here, or you can get a very similar item here" with not one necessarily being better in many ways. Not to mention the email system has eliminated the need for any interaction with a vendor.

I have to agree with the OP - there have been many features in SWG, that offered possiblities to create content together with other players in SWG.

While cities being just one of them, they were certainly offering social hubs, that allowed you to meet yet unknown players more than once. Instanced worlds totally remove this important factor.

In ToR, hubs like the fleet or the planets spaceport should be developed into such a direction, imo. One first step could be to allow you to sit on the chairs in the cantina

You completely missed my point as well.

I didn't say the grinding was great, I'm talking about the COMMUNITY.

 

I swear if you aren't going to read the entire post in a topic like this, why respond?

Game those not make Community better, it may bring it closer with wPVP and alike but its up to the Community to be friendly, more involved etc...

Though I agree, but SWG was a different game then TOR is, this is a theme park MMO as they call it.

The good old SWG, I still miss it...

not only pre-cu but nge as well, that game made me an RP'er without me knowing it, I hope BW somehow gets a housing system into TOR, it would be absolutely great, or at least give us the possibility to decorate our ships XD

and also RIP SWG, I miss you dearly...

You completely missed my point as well.

I didn't say the grinding was great, I'm talking about the COMMUNITY.

 

I swear if you aren't going to read the entire post in a topic like this, why respond?

I played SWG, I enjoyed it for a while until there were less players then in Anarchy Online. You know why the community was so strong? Because there were so few people playing. So many dead player cities everywhere...

EVE online had/has a better community orientation actually.

The best, I would say.

I agree with the OP's points however realistically, I can see TOR going the instanced housing route (yes I miss having a non instanced home AWAY from harvesters on Naboo and Tatooine)

I hated pre-cu(and NGE)...too many bots to compete with for mob kills esp in DWB and the like. Loved it when the CU hit and people had to actually be *gasp!* AT the keyboard in fights! Not just see mob...cue up 20+ attacks and a heal stim/food/spice macro and go eat in RL..come back and profit!

But back to the point, player housing taken to extremes (like anything else) can be a bad thing. Non instanced HOUSING on planets(not crafting stations/harvesters/junk) if done well would only give the player more immersion if they chose to take up on it. Player cities are good on paper but without a vast majority into it, becomes the ghost towns we all remember. Can't hurt anyone for BW to give an option for more player housing down the road.

It does promote player interaction in many ways especially if you could put shops in your home to house your created items or take orders for specific modded things or styles/colors of clothing...the options could be limitless if done right or at all.

sidenote: Haven't seen this mentioned yet anywhere but the skill system in pre-NGE has yet to be even remotely rivaled anywhere, I still miss that the most.

I do agree. I also miss the feeling of an open world in SW:ToR. In SWG you always had the feeling that you can go anywhere at anytime, no stupid rocks you can't climb.

I also liked the fact, that you had one char on a server. If you don't want to be a rifleman anymore, you can become something else, but you u are still the same guy.

SW:ToR is good, but it's another World of Warcraft and not something new.

Keep in mind guys I'm not just directing this at SW:ToR, just aiming it at all MMO's anymore. Also I'm mainly referring to SWG in its prime, most player cities actually on the map that were fully fledged were not dead at the time. Obviously during NGE when I logged on the few times I did, 95% of cities were ghost towns. Remember, SWG had few servers and enough people subbed that those few servers were usually pretty decently populated.

One thing I also loved about the player housing is the way you could make it YOUR house, no player building was alike. So many possibilities via customization of furniture/items/etc.

Now in all honesty, I don't ever see player housing in SW:ToR. I really don't.

Just directing this mostly at all MMO's these days.

 

sidenote: Haven't seen this mentioned yet anywhere but the skill system in pre-NGE has yet to be even remotely rivaled anywhere, I still miss that the most.

Yeah the skill system is the best thing I've ever seen to this day.

The one thing I think every new MMO lacks is the sense of community that I loved in pre-nge SWG.

 

It was just a game that rewarded socializing/being part of the community, which I feel an MMO should do.

 

What I mean:

Actually RELYing on Crafters for goods. They mostly made the best weapons/armor.

Relying on Doctors for buffs for both PvE & PvP generally and even a new player benefitted massively from them.

Relying on Entertainers for the exact same reason.

Again, relying on crafters - they made it all, mounts, buff food, medical supplies, clothes, buildings, creatures, etc.

PvP Being real world PvP

Real Guild PvP Wars <3 <3

 

The best part:

PLAYER CITIES/housing/guild halls/etc

 

The player housing/city system was simply astounding, and they had the ability to fully function with mission terminals, factional bases, cantinas, shuttleports, med center, etc.

 

I don't understand why no game to this day has implemented or even tried to implement another player housing/city system like this. It was such a huge success in SWG. It just meant so much to have your 'home' in SWG. I put so much time into customizing my home and making it my home, as well as my home in my Ship.

 

I'm not just complaining about SW:ToR - just MMO's in general these days that are way more focused on providing PvE & PvP content that gives to the players, rather than put some focus on Players giving to Players and a strong community benefitting the game.

 

I have to say, if you took the average MMO player today especially from a game like WoW and put them into old SWG I can't imagine how bad it would be.. so used to rarely socializing with other players outside their own guild.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm LOVING SW:ToR - basically because it's like a new WoW for me that I haven't seen decline.

Personally I feel that WoW is a great game, but it has also had 7 years of development in it now - I just feel that the content in WoW sucks and is wasting the good design WoW has. But this isn't about WoW.

 

Just saying I love SW: ToR - but still hope some day for another MMO to come out that rivals the community orientation SWG had.

 

 

 

Anyone else feel this way?

I totaly agre whit you - there is STIL no game to day that is even close to the old SWG and I totaly cant understand it ?? wy is it so hard to make a new "SWG"