You are constantly rude, abusive, disrespectful, and mean. I have no idea how you're still allowed to post.

You are constantly rude, abusive, disrespectful, and mean. I have no idea how you're still allowed to post.

 

____________^^^ PetFish it's you, go look... you are that. Literally, you repeatedly post personal insults... I've only ever criticized the insults flung at me or the Original Poster by people such as yourself.

I mean, honestly, you must be SOME sort of a fool to platform like this... just look at your first post on page 2:

...

If you're gonna quit, then quit, nobody cares but you or what you have to say but yourself. So buh-bye and just don't post here again. Do what you say you're gonna do and just quit already.

...and you dare to pretend I'm being abusive!!! I only ever criticize insanely abusive people such as yourself.

 

In fact you repeated your abuse very recently:

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You are the very definition of selfish. You are clearly not speaking for every PvE-only player yet you cling to that premise. This is all about YOU and the fact that YOU want everything done YOUR way and forget what anyone else wants. YOU are upset cuz they gave one cookie from the cookie jar to someone else and YOU didn't get to hog all of them for YOURSELF.

How weak-minded to try to make an argument such as this! I'm not even requesting any new features... I'm only requesting duplicate mission locations that are outside the forced-flagging-zone.

 

Duplicate mission locations for the 2 [PVP] missions, outside the forced-flagging-zone, so that PvE players such as the Original Poster and myself, and all future PvE-only players who run the Gree Event missions, have a way just to earn the same daily reward as everyone else. No special consideration, just equal consideration.

It is not a strawman argument.

 

I argue against your points with facts supported by dev posts and ingame mechanics

 

How one can continue to deny that this event is designed for casual players (by far the majority of players) and not for strict pve or strict pvp players is beyond me. You can't offer more content in the missions to satisfy just "your" niche. And not that of strict PvP'ers as well. It creates unbalance and prejudice.

 

 

 

Once again I'll attempt to be the voice of reason here instead of an extremist.

 

I would be content to allow all rewards available via strict pve only options so long as the same rewards can be attained through strict pvp options.

 

Along with keeping the current system of a mixture of both methods.

 

 

 

I cannot see how this would not appeal to you as this satisfies your requests for strict pve options. As well as not forcing any pvp on you. It simply offers those options to the other players, and creates no inconvenience for you whatsoever.

Edited March 11, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

It is not a strawman argument.

 

I argue against your points with facts supported by dev posts and ingame mechanics

 

How one can continue to deny that this event is designed for casual players (by far the majority of players) and not for strict pve or strict pvp players is beyond me. You can't offer more content in the missions to satisfy just "your" niche. And not that of strict PvP'ers as well. It creates unbalance and prejudice.

 

Once again I'll attempt to be the voice of reason here instead of an extremist.

 

I would be content to allow all rewards available via strict pve only options so long as the same rewards can be attained through strict pvp options.

...

I cannot see how this would not appeal to you as this satisfies your requests for strict pve options. As well as not forcing any pvp on you. It simply offers those options to the other players, and creates no inconvenience for you whatsoever.

 

Like I already explained, the request is not for more content. And like I said, you cannot hold hostage a request for a PvE quality-of-life fix in order to demand other features along with it. Go create your own thread if you have the impulse to tack on stowaway requests.

 

You are NOT the voice of reason ... lol that is absurd.

Like I already explained, the request is not for more content. And like I said, you cannot hold hostage a request for a PvE quality-of-life fix in order to demand other features along with it. Go create your own thread if you have the impulse to tack on stowaway requests.

 

You are NOT the voice of reason ... lol that is absurd.

 

And yet there is nothing in my argument here that you have rebutted. I hold nothing hostage. I only ask for equal considerations for all.

 

Adding more missions IS content.

 

I offered a solution with satisfaction for all player bases. I would consider that being a voice of reason.

Edited March 11, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

Anonnn, it seems to me that you want all the rewards without actually doing all the stuff.

 

Gree Event had way more PvE missions, which were the only way to get Gray Helix Components, so they were the only way to get the weapons. These missions also had the best reputation rewards (Purples and Blues, bigger quantities of Greens), while PvP had only one Blue and one (or two) Green(s).

 

Your logic is that because you do not want to go to the very clearly marked PvP area to do clearly marked PvP quests, you should get the rewards from them?

 

Explain to me how is it just in any way? As it is not like you would need the rep items from PvP quests, Champion standing could be reached easily without them.

Anonnn, it seems to me that you want all the rewards without actually doing all the stuff.

Gree Event had way more PvE missions, which were the only way to get Gray Helix Components, so they were the only way to get the weapons. These missions also had the best reputation rewards (Purples and Blues, bigger quantities of Greens), while PvP had only one Blue and one (or two) Green(s).

Your logic is that because you do not want to go to the very clearly marked PvP area to do clearly marked PvP quests, you should get the rewards from them?

Explain to me how is it just in any way? As it is not like you would need the rep items from PvP quests, Champion standing could be reached easily without them.

 

You're both in gross error. Your selective consideration of the circumstances as different people with different play-styles work their way through the Gree Event missions is tainting your debate points.

 

There are 3 distinctive styles of players:

• PvE-only players
  
• PvE + PvP players
  
• PvP-only players
  

 

You are arguing on the basis that I'm promoting PvE-only players and failing to promote PvP players. Why should I be obligated to do so, just to ask for a change focused on PvE-only players? The Gree Event fails to take into account that everyone should have a right to expect just as much daily reward potential as any other players, regardless of which of the 3 categories they fall into. For PvE-only players, this means that the 2 [PVP] missions need to have just 1 additional mission area that is outside the forced-flagging zone, so they can complete all the missions on the Event terminal each day without having to flag for PvP.

 

This is a perfectly reasonable request.

For PvE-only players, this means that the 2 [PVP] missions need to have just 1 additional mission area that is outside the forced-flagging zone, so they can complete all the missions on the Event terminal each day without having to flag for PvP.

 

This is a perfectly reasonable request.

 

PvE+PvP players always get the most out of the content, because they are willing to play through it all. If you limit yourself to only one aspect, you will always come short on some rewards. And that is the way it should be.

 

Your "request" to add some extra missions outside of PvP zone, while reasonable, would give the PvE+PvP players more rewards, so you as PvE-only person would not be able to close the really tiny gap anyway.

 

For pure PvP players, no event to date rewarded anything useful, not weapons, and in Gree event case, certainly not enough reputation to get to champion level.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Aries_cz

PvE+PvP players always get the most out of the content, because they are willing to play through it all. If you limit yourself to only one aspect, you will always come short on some rewards. And that is the way it should be.

 

This is pretty much all that needs to be said. If a player is willing to put in the effort then they *should* be entitled to more rewards, faster leveling, and better quality of life over someone who chooses to limit themselves.

I do not do pvp. Not in this game. Not in any game that has pvp. I do not act in that fashion in real life and I do not see a need for me to do so playing a game. I do understand however that some people enjoy pvp as an additional feature. And I do not mind if people who enjoy that that kind of game play get together and have at it. I find that in this game pvp players have an easy time pulling pve players into a pvp situation. And once there pve players have to inconvenience themselves to get the pvp marker dropped.

 

I want to be able to switch off pvp as a option. And I want it to stay off.

 

This is my opinion and all I have to say on the matter.

I do not do pvp. Not in this game. Not in any game that has pvp. I do not act in that fashion in real life and I do not see a need for me to do so playing a game. I do understand however that some people enjoy pvp as an additional feature. And I do not mind if people who enjoy that that kind of game play get together and have at it. I find that in this game pvp players have an easy time pulling pve players into a pvp situation. And once there pve players have to inconvenience themselves to get the pvp marker dropped.

 

I want to be able to switch off pvp as a option. And I want it to stay off.

 

This is my opinion and all I have to say on the matter.

 

You are entitled to not wanting to participate in pvp but you will not be able to turn it off as it is a core component of the game. Perhaps in the future we might see a permanent disable to the pvp flag but I doubt they will ever add a opt out option.

My personal impression is alwys that PvP players are rather aggressive in their voicing against "being forced to do PvE" than the other way round.

 

It's usually the PvP players who call the PvE players "whiners", "loosers" and similar words, than the other way round.

 

It's usually the PvP players who are the most aggressive voices in the forums, rather that than the other way round.

 

Which means that PvP players usually get what they want - because they manage to become heard, because of their rather aggressive tone, rather that than the other way round, I guess.

 

That's my purely personal impression.

It's a game and nobody should make you do anything, but at the same time nobody should reward you for opting out of content, either. The PVP content in the Gree event is what it was intended to be, PVP content. There are two quests that are PVP based and one which is optionally PVP (the Heroic quest), and they're fairly well designed as such. Competing for resources is a classic method of adding PVP content. Fighting over resources and performing PVE style content while under the threat of enemy (player) attack is always going to implicitly be PVP content.

 

It's also worth noting that this event is going to be recurring, which means that you can still reach the same goal as someone who participates in both PVE and PVP content, it will just take you a little longer (since you have chosen not to participate in some aspects, and make no mistake that it is a choice). If you think about what you're giving up the rewards are fairly minimal, two quests and a slightly easier time with a third. The heroic is easier in the PVP area because you're under threat of attack and likely to be wearing PVP gear which is consistently worse for PVE than PVE gear, thus requiring adjustment of the mobs to bring balance.

 

That all said I do think that the PVP flagging system should be changed. I have zero issue with venturing into a PVP area force flagging you for PVP. That is sensible and results in a warning before it happens. One thing that might not be bad would be to slightly enlarge the PVP zone so as to reduce the number of times that it's possible to wander into a large quantity of guards who are designed to stunlock and murder a lone attacker (Republic and Imperial bases, for example). It's quite possible to accidentally wander into these areas and be stunned or killed long enough for the PVP flag to trigger accidentally, which should never happen.

 

Some other changes that would likely help:

1. It needs to be easier to remove the PVP flag. This should be manageable in a way that is not safe, as the chief reason for the player to not be able to remove the flag quickly or safely is that a person could attack others, cause a scene, etc. and then quickly unflag themselves and laugh at the people angrily challenging for a rematch. A good counter, I think, would be for a player to willingly submit to a 1 (or perhaps 5 to match the current unflag time) minute CC effect. Any attack (or aid, such as healing) made on the player during that 1 minute would break the CC with no other ill effects other than requiring the player to repeat the process to remove the PVP flag. At the conclusion of the 1 minute period the CC would end, removing the PVP flag and add a 10 minute duration debuff that would restrict the player from voluntarily participating in PVP.

2. It needs to be harder to flag onesself for PVP so that it cannot be done by accident. Some things that would help with this:

a. Companions should no longer heal flagged "Friendlies" if their controlling player is not flagged.

b. Healing AOEs should simply not work on unflagged players if the caster is not flagged.

c. Resurrection should not be enabled from an unflagged player to a flagged player (this currently flags you). Being a good Samaritan should not flag you for PVP by accident. If you flag yourself for PVP so that you can resurrect the flagged dead then good for you, but it shouldn't be a surprise.

d. AOE damaging abilities should not be capable of targeting, damaging, affecting or otherwise "hitting" hostile flagged targets if the caster is unflagged. This includes companion abilities.

e. PVP flagged players should not be permitted to join a group unless the leader of that group is flagged. The group as a whole should consent to either be flagged or not. Joining a group that has the leader flagged should include a warning prior to joining the group, and should flag all members immediately. This removes the tactical advantage of having several unattackable group members waiting in the wings in reserve in case someone takes the bait. This may seem silly or extreme but, as a healer, if you join a group that has ANY flagged members you are currently, with no change to the existing mechanics, either accepting that you are going to be flagged or voluntarily going to be derelict in your duties by not healing the PVP flagged member. Better to get the whole thing over with and out of the way at the outset.

 

Beyond that if you step into an area that the game tells you is PVP only then you just have to deal with it. An excellent argument can be made that if you step into an area that tells you it's a PVP environment, you have no right to be angry about PVP happening. And to anyone who disagrees: LOL U MAD, BRO?

Well, let me put my 2 cents in on this PvP / PvE thing. I rolled on a PvE server because I had been on a PvP server for a long time in WOW. I got tired of it when I was soloing. The point I want to make is a PvE server should be just that, no PvP period. I really loved LOTR because of that and there was PLENTY of great content. and lots of cool gear. I came to SWTOR because my friends did. I get tired of the wanna be PvPers screaming in chat..come on everybody que up for PvP lada lada lada. I don't want to PvP. There is plenty of ways to make great content and have a PVE server !! If you are a true PvPer than you will be on a PvP server. The original point of the thread was I think, is if you are going to have PvP on a PVE server don't make it a Part of REGULAR game play during anything, special events, or not. I for one am not a "keep up with the Jones" kind of person. I don't do the PvP and this probably leaves me at a disadvantage, which like the original person was trying to say is not making things equal. Just like bringing real world money via the Cartel Coins in the game. Those people who don't have or want to spend their hard earned money get left out on a lot of stuff unless they can afford to pay the jacked up GTN prices. Have a nice day folks