the thing is, that 90% out of the random warzones, the team with the more healer wins.

 

healing was always very strong in this game since the release, but somehow it has gotten worse and worse and worse.

 

healers are just to crucial right now. one good geared scoundrel/ops wins the game "solo" if his team doesnt consist of dumb players.

 

the pvp is dying more and more and for my part its the opness of healing.

i dont even wanna start with the discusssion of guard + heal. thats a whole different story.

 

every mmorg that i have played so far had at least some decent heal debuffs. this game only has 1 ****** heal debuff

 

/rant over

 

edit: i agree that sorcs and especially mercs dont need a nerf. the generell consens seems to be that sorcs are in a good state where as mercs could need a little buffing.

Edited September 14, 2013 by discoklaus

the thing is, that 90% out of the random warzones, the team with the more healer wins.

 

You could also say : the thing is, that 90% out of the random warzones, the team with the less muppets wins.

 

This would also be true. But would that mean that good players need to be nerfed?

 

You know - healing alone won't win any match, period. You can be a pro healer in AHG and be team up with muppets and you will lose even if the opposing team won't have a one healing class.

 

So no, no nerfing any healing class just because it is so hard to mark the healer and focus fire on him /her first.

You could also say : the thing is, that 90% out of the random warzones, the team with the less muppets wins.

 

This would also be true. But would that mean that good players need to be nerfed?

 

You know - healing alone won't win any match, period. You can be a pro healer in AHG and be team up with muppets and you will lose even if the opposing team won't have a one healing class.

 

So no, no nerfing any healing class just because it is so hard to mark the healer and focus fire on him /her first.

 

this was the most stupid post i ever read. thanks

healers are just to crucial right now. one good geared scoundrel/ops wins the game "solo" if his team doesnt consist of dumb players.

/rant over

 

You mean to tell me, that you win games, when your team doesnt consist of dumb players?

Healing is OP in that they have the best of too many worlds. They have great escape utility/survivability. They have great resource availability. The healing abilities themselves do too much healing in pvp gear.

 

Get rid of 1 and you solve the problem.

Edited September 13, 2013 by JefferyClark

Commando/Merc healers don't need another nerf.

 

And we can all agree that sage/sorc healers are in a good position.

this was the most stupid post i ever read. thanks

 

Pretty god damn hypocritical when your thread mentions and I quote "one good geared scoundrel/ops wins the game "solo" if his team doesnt consist of dumb players"

 

Which is exactly what he said in which, good players beat bad players.

 

Now is healing a bit over the top, in some ways yes but the only real issues is what seems like an endless recourse pool for ops/scoundrels and plenty of instant heals.

 

Sorcs/sages are fine and mercs/commandos, when played right can be ok but healing in general does not need to be toned down, just some specs need to be adjusted.

 

 

And a heal heavy team does not equal a win, at least not a 90% success rate.

I would think that the "best" way (my opinion) to fix healing, is to bring mando and sorc healing up to Op numbers, then give a pvp trauma increase, to 40%, and then tweak the pvp trauma debuff every week or so till healing is balanced with dps

Commando/Merc healers don't need another nerf.

 

And we can all agree that sage/sorc healers are in a good position.

Mercs need more immunities. Their actual output is fine. Sage has the same issues.

 

Buff PvP trauma by 10%, and add more immunity to those two. See where the chips fall.

I love when people start "Healing Needs a Nerf" threads and then just whine about Scoundrels.

I love when people start "Healing Needs a Nerf" threads and then just whine about Scoundrels.

 

And the best ones are where they whine about not being able to single-handedly kill a healer who is guarded by a tank.

In a 1v1 situation, only scoundrels/operatives seem really OP. In the hands of a good player, they are unkillable.

 

The real problem comes when cross-healing comes into play. Put 3 well-played healers on a team, and no one on their team dies. You might still be able to eek out a win, but no one dies.

 

For example, yesterday in Novare Coast, the dps on my team was far outclassed by the hps the 4 healers on the other team had, but our 1 healer could not out hps their dps, so every fight was a losing battle. When one teammate said to focus on healers (something already being done), I told them not to because it wouldn't matter, and instead attack off nodes to try and stretch them out and steal a node, then just play the interrupt game at the node. It worked for a while, but sadly we ended up losing the stolen node, and then the match 8% to 0%. Damn close.

 

But that was one of the times when focus firing didn't matter, because of the number of enemy healers, and the speed at which one "healed to full". Nothing could be killed in a big fight, only when surprised the off node, and even then, only 1 to 2 guys would die. I think I finished that match with over 600k damage, but only 8 kills.

Edited September 13, 2013 by waterboytkd

In a 1v1 situation, only scoundrels/operatives seem really OP. In the hands of a good player, they are unkillable.

 

The real problem comes when cross-healing comes into play. Put 3 well-played healers on a team, and no one on their team dies. You might still be able to eek out a win, but no one dies.

 

For example, yesterday in Novare Coast, the dps on my team was far outclassed by the hps the 4 healers on the other team had, but our 1 healer could not out hps their dps, so every fight was a losing battle. When one teammate said to focus on healers (something already being done), I told them not to because it wouldn't matter, and instead attack off nodes to try and stretch them out and steal a node, then just play the interrupt game at the node. It worked for a while, but sadly we ended up losing the stolen node, and then the match 8% to 0%. Damn close.

 

But that was one of the times when focus firing didn't matter, because of the number of enemy healers, and the speed at which one "healed to full". Nothing could be killed in a big fight, only when surprised the off node, and even then, only 1 to 2 guys would die. I think I finished that match with over 600k damage, but only 8 kills.

 

If the other team have at least 3 healers and a jugg tank who switches guard, it will become very tough to win because you probably will not be getting many kills-if any. If there were 4 healers and no tank guarding then there was definitely miscommunication with your dps (unless you had no healers on your team in which case you were pretty screwed).

 

I remember I played with a team of 6 healers and we still got stomped by a pre-made. Even with all the cross healing we couldn't keep up with their focus targets and died many times.

I love when people start "Healing Needs a Nerf" threads and then just whine about Scoundrels.

 

its the only healers you see.

 

the amount of sorc/sage and commando/merc heals i have seen tends to 0. why would anybody play a merc or a sage if you get a way better healer with a scoundrel.

 

still i think that there needs to be a better healing debuff. i dont mind if i and 3 other dps die while attacking the healer, as long as we can take him out. but with the amount of survivability and resource management the scoundrels have + guard it is almost impossible to kill him before all 4 of us die

its the only healers you see.

 

the amount of sorc/sage and commando/merc heals i have seen tends to 0. why would anybody play a merc or a sage if you get a way better healer with a scoundrel.

 

still i think that there needs to be a better healing debuff. i dont mind if i and 3 other dps die while attacking the healer, as long as we can take him out. but with the amount of survivability and resource management the scoundrels have + guard it is almost impossible to kill him before all 4 of us die

 

Scouperative healing is boring and easy. I switched to Scrapper because it's more fun knocking people on their faces and it's also challenging when under fire. Sage healing is fun especially when kiting 4 melee on your tail . Mando/Merc is the most fun for me because it's the most challenging. Nothing is more fun than getting Invincible in a WZ when under fire from 2 Snipers and a Smasher. I can kite very well too. So yeah, take your Spam Probe and play somewhere else.

its the only healers you see.

 

the amount of sorc/sage and commando/merc heals i have seen tends to 0. why would anybody play a merc or a sage if you get a way better healer with a scoundrel.

 

still i think that there needs to be a better healing debuff. i dont mind if i and 3 other dps die while attacking the healer, as long as we can take him out. but with the amount of survivability and resource management the scoundrels have + guard it is almost impossible to kill him before all 4 of us die

 

I'd wager that on the fact most Sorc healers switched to DPS cos Unlimited Powahhhh!

 

Nobody plays Comm healers because of the green beam of death, it paints a bullseye on the Comm, seen plenty of Merc healers because they don't have the same drawback.

 

Remember the vast majority of the playbase are not geared, not really experienced and thus don't know how to control Scoundrel/Operative healers, they interupt at the wrong time, they constantly switch targets and don't maintain focus (They are still squishy with poor defensive skills) they don't bother to AoE when the Op/Sc try to stealth...they have appauling timing with their CC.

 

So what do people commonly do when they cannot adapt?

 

Scream on the forums until said class(es) are made useless.

OPs are the only healers that are OP. They need some sort of nerf to their personal survivability. But I think guard is the bigger problem because it has no counter. It should have some sort of diminishing return or some counter ability given to some classes. 1 tank and one OP healer can last indefinitely. One OP by themselves can also be unkillable in certain situations. The other two healing classes are fine when they are not guarded.

A very simple solution would implement a match-making system. Like PvE group finder

1 - It's not a nerf to the classes.

2 - Mercenary and Sorcerer need a buff.

3 - Nerf the healing done while affected by bolster.

 

2 healers against a pug group it's a 99% chance win.

A very simple solution would implement a match-making system. Like PvE group finder

 

In 2.4 it'll be possible, players can't respec inside/queued for warzones, so the system can identify if you're a healer.

In a 1v1 situation, only scoundrels/operatives seem really OP. In the hands of a good player, they are unkillable.

 

The real problem comes when cross-healing comes into play. Put 3 well-played healers on a team, and no one on their team dies. You might still be able to eek out a win, but no one dies.

This. ^^^^^ A million times over.

 

My main is a Vigilance Guardian, and I LOVE 1v1 encounters. I feel that Vigilance/Vengeance are very well-balanced for 1v1. If I play intelligently, I can win. If I get outplayed, I'll lose, and that seems about right. I like that my spec has a hard counter in Gunslingers/Snipers, but if my timing is right (particularly with Saber Ward, Resolute, and Saber Reflect), I still stand a good chance of beating them. I find it only moderately difficult to beat Sage/Sorcerer/Commando/Mercenary healers; it really comes down to judicious interrupting, good positioning, and lining up DoTs and burst.

 

However, against a Scoundrel/Operative healer that hasn't been lobotomized, I stand no chance whatsoever. The entire fight consists of me doing my damned level best to close the gap, apply as much CC/damage as I can in that short window, keep Freezing Force applied, then watching helplessly as they roll way, spam HoTs, and top off their (barely damaged) health meters, laughing all the way.

 

From a melee DPS perspective, the only way I'll ever kill a Scouperative healer is if another of their critical heals requires a cast timer (and therefore becomes interruptible) and if that darned roll gets AT LEAST an 8-second cooldown.

 

Not a theorycrafter, so take my ideas with a ton of sodium chloride and tune your flamethrowers down a bit before you unload on me.

 

Edited September 13, 2013 by RodneyMcNeely

I brought up a similar idea in this thread. It went over about as well as this one is. "No, if you nerf me at all you completely break healing!" "You can't do anything to healing until mercs are fixed!" And, of course, my personal favorite: "I'm not overpowered, everyone else just sucks!"

 

But let's start off small. We all pretty much agree that Scoperatives need to get hit with the nerf stick hard. So let's start slow: if you shorten flash bang's mez duration to the same length as awe, you significantly bring scops in line with the other classes. Because there's just no reason for a class to have a CC that has the same duration as whirlwind, is AoE, ranged, AND instantaneous, especially when they already have a stealth escape and now a dash.

I hate how a lot of dps think they are the best. And then blame the healer, since it can't possibly be the dps at fault.

 

Does healing need looking into? Sure. Do we need to punish all 3 healing classes? No.

 

People need to realize they aren't as good as they think

I hate how a lot of dps think they are the best. And then blame the healer, since it can't possibly be the dps at fault.

 

Does healing need looking into? Sure. Do we need to punish all 3 healing classes? No.

Couldn't agree more. I think the Scouperative healers' ability to facetank while insta-casting and staying mobile are the real culprit here, leading to insane cross-heals simply because you can't catch the guy (even when slowed).

I have never felt balanced as a Merc healer nor a Scoundrel healer, and until I play a sage/sorc to max level I cannot comment on them. Either I am just a pure bad *** when it comes to healing, or it really does offer too much utility and power to a team in my opinion.

 

Why shouldn't I die in a 1 v 1 fight just because I am a healer? It makes no sense to me why people think healers should be powerful enough that not even the best DPS are balanced if they can kill me without more than 1 person. Do we need more glass cannons to balance this out or will healers never be satisfied with anything less than immortality against typical players?

 

 

Just a side note but there are two aspects to balancing classes, balance based on the average or balanced based on the maximum. As it stands, I think players feel healers should be balanced around the average with their own strength while the DPS that attack them should be balanced around the maximum. A bit ridiculous if you ask me. Players are not perfect, but its damn easy to play a healer very well while the same can't be said for the DPS trying to kill them.