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[Serious Suggestion] Blaster fire ONLY to remove non-participant flag?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
[Serious Suggestion] Blaster fire ONLY to remove non-participant flag?

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
04.28.2014 , 07:52 AM | #1
Nothing - NOTHING - pisses me off more than people who won't even try.

You know who I'm talking about. Those idiots who queue up and spawn in just to fly around in circles or crash if they get a vote to kick 'em (mostly because they're flying around in f*&^ing circles - ain't nobody got time for that). Some use it to grind cash, others use it to grind req, and the worst ones use it to shortcut leveling.

They should all die in a fire. But that's probably not going to happen, so we gotta find ways to get rid of 'em.

I say make 'em play at least a LITTLE bit - set it to where only blaster fire or missiles can remove the non-participant flag. If nowhere else, at least just in TDM. The preferred method these slacktards use to shed the kick votes is, of course, suicide, which gives a point to the opposition (and ends the match faster because **** they just can't BEAR to actually play the damned game. Oh nononononono.).

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's sick of that crap. So, is there a way to set it to where hitting or getting hit ONLY removes kick votes?

And if there is, can we do this without bombers getting flagged too? I remember that was a bit of an issue last time. -bp

Verain's Avatar


Verain
04.28.2014 , 08:45 AM | #2
I got flagged in a match I was top kills and assists in. I pretty much hate the mechanic, because it doesn't stop the trolls, but it really wrecks me when I'm being chased hard. I had one scout on me (he had killed my req strike fighter, my only death that match) and then he and some buddies locked me down around an asteroid for minutes, with nothing but hard dodging and cooldown cycling to keep me up until I finally got a peel. I then railgunned him, which was satisfying to get that kill- but it is of course accompanied by "you are now again contributing".

It's ludicrous that I can basically carry a whole match and still get flagged non participate while tanking a third of the enemy team.


The mechanic as it is coded is obviously ludicrous. It doesn't record being hit by enemies, but it does count suicides. WHAT? It's pretty much a constant threat for boy bombers who are defending a nest of gunships and girl bombers, a strategically huge value that prevents those two ships, normally prey for Type 2 Scouts, from being farmed by one lone ace. It sucks and the game is probably worse for it- TDM definitely is.

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
04.28.2014 , 08:53 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
I got flagged in a match I was top kills and assists in. I pretty much hate the mechanic, because it doesn't stop the trolls, but it really wrecks me when I'm being chased hard. I had one scout on me (he had killed my req strike fighter, my only death that match) and then he and some buddies locked me down around an asteroid for minutes, with nothing but hard dodging and cooldown cycling to keep me up until I finally got a peel. I then railgunned him, which was satisfying to get that kill- but it is of course accompanied by "you are now again contributing".

It's ludicrous that I can basically carry a whole match and still get flagged non participate while tanking a third of the enemy team.


The mechanic as it is coded is obviously ludicrous. It doesn't record being hit by enemies, but it does count suicides. WHAT? It's pretty much a constant threat for boy bombers who are defending a nest of gunships and girl bombers, a strategically huge value that prevents those two ships, normally prey for Type 2 Scouts, from being farmed by one lone ace. It sucks and the game is probably worse for it- TDM definitely is.
It definitely removes the flag if a non-participant hits someone with blaster fire. Perhaps, as you point out, it would make more sense to have the flag set on offensive action only - taking care to set certain things like healprobes' and healdrones' effect to Offensive, of course.

Why isn't there an easy solution for people being total prats?!

Verain's Avatar


Verain
04.28.2014 , 09:01 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Sidenti View Post
It definitely removes the flag if a non-participant hits someone with blaster fire.
That's not my claim. I claim it doesn't remove the participant flag if I'm STRUCK with blaster fire. It will do so if I DIE, whether that is to blasters, missiles, or just power diving into the cap ship on spawn.

I was participating- harder than anyone else in the match, mind you- when I was flagged non participate.

Quote:
Perhaps, as you point out, it would make more sense to have the flag set on offensive action only
Does that solve the problem of the gunship flying around an asteroid while 2-4 ships fail to kill him? We need to solve that one too.

Quote:
Why isn't there an easy solution for people being total prats?!
Sadly, it appears the creator has endowed prats with a kind of low cunning, so as to better equip them for their role of tormenting the rest of us.

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
04.28.2014 , 09:12 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
That's not my claim. I claim it doesn't remove the participant flag if I'm STRUCK with blaster fire. It will do so if I DIE, whether that is to blasters, missiles, or just power diving into the cap ship on spawn.

I was participating- harder than anyone else in the match, mind you- when I was flagged non participate.



Does that solve the problem of the gunship flying around an asteroid while 2-4 ships fail to kill him? We need to solve that one too.



Sadly, it appears the creator has endowed prats with a kind of low cunning, so as to better equip them for their role of tormenting the rest of us.
In order:

* Right. What I said is that it removes the flag if you're the one STRIKING people with blaster fire. So the mechanism for recognizing blaster fire as a flag remover is already present. It just needs to be applied to the person being struck as well (why it isn't, I don't know).

* That's gotta be an exceptionally rare occurrence. Usually someone among the 3-5 participants there can land at least one shot in the timeframe it takes to get hit with the NP flag. I would think healbombers protecting a bomberball would have more concerns, and I really can't think of a valid, viable method to fix THAT save for an "are you there" button. Which would still get abused by macro, with the right peripherals. (Pretty sure someone makes keyboards with programmable macros.)

* I choose not to believe that. I think the enemy is us. We've just got to try harder to keep out that kind of "player".

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
04.28.2014 , 10:34 AM | #6
So we can all agree we hate douchey bots and people who refuse to do anything, but as we have found out quantifying "contribution" is very difficult. This is due in part to trying to catch two different kinds of sandbaggers:

1.) Type 1 - Player who simply does not contribute, fly's around wherever the combat isn't, and doesn't shoot targets or fight back.

2.) Type 2 - Sophisticated BOT's programmed to do things like capture nodes, fire weapons, use abilities, switch targets ETC.

the dev's have attempted to put a "catch all" in and it simply wont work. The rules required to catch sophisticated BOT's are too strict, and cause support classes and people evading to be labeled as a non contributor.

So I propose this, lets loosen the current non contributor rules to something simple, like (has fired weapon, used ability, boost, or throttle change in x seconds). Something designed to catch type 1 non contributors.

Secondly lets add a "report player" feature. This would not fix the problem in the match but would allow players to place a flag on someone, if someone gets a lot of flags a CSR review commences and possible action on the account is taken. This would at least seriously threaten anyone who chooses to do this on a regular or even semi regular basis (they may get temp or perm account bans etc, not worth it eh)


Its also a good test bed for a "Vote Kick" feature. If the player base can use report player responsibly perhaps in the future we can have the dev's look at a true blue "Vote Kick" feature.

The whole point is you shoot yourself in the foot when you attempt to make the rules too stringent in order to catch the worst offenders. Machines can be bad at spotting complex patterns, humans are much MUCH better at this. Let the people have a crack at it! Worked for galaxy zoo and about a thousand other crowd sourced projects hehe.

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Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
04.28.2014 , 10:39 AM | #7
I have had matches where I was being focused and chased so hard that I got the timer just from running away trying to survive, so we need to be careful with making people get kicked faster.
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LilSaihah's Avatar


LilSaihah
04.28.2014 , 05:35 PM | #8
Vote kick seems like the option that would have the most bang for its buck. Simple to use, and I don't think it's too difficult to tell who isn't contributing.

The main problem is actually implementing a system which allows you to votekick someone without interrupting the flow of play. In the ground game, you can move your mouse down and rightclick someone's face and press votekick and there's no issue, as not moving for a few seconds probably won't get you killed. Moving your mouse in space combat, though, has an obvious penalty; you're not flying in the direction you want to for however long it takes to do it.

So, lazy thoughts. Two ways to initiate a votekick;
1. People can initiate a votekick from the Choose Ship window. If you're winning, an AFKer is less of an issue; if you're losing, the other team will probably be more than happy to send you to the Choose Ship screen.
2. People can automatically have a votekick initiated against them if they do certain things. If they suicide 2+ times in quick succession, for example.

When a votekick's initiated, a little window pops up somewhere out of the way, maybe next to the score. To actually vote on a kick, default keys are f5 and f6. They're far enough out of the way that you won't accidentally press them, but they're close enough to your default power buttons to be manageable in the middle of a fight.
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DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
04.28.2014 , 07:06 PM | #9
I think the best way to accomplish this is with text:

Initiated through chat /votekick playername

If accepted a votekick is initiated: it will flash (Vote Kick Playername) on the screen (like damage overcharge)

You could vote with 1 for yes 2 for no through a prompt in the chat window (think the counterstrike voting system, once initiated you could press one or two to choose)

This is pretty unobtrusive IMO I find it pretty easy to type a quick message as long as im not in the middle of a dogfight.
Ahazi Server Refugee (Beta - Shutdown) RIP TIE & Twin Ion
[Circle of Emnity] - Pincer - Ocula Pilot - The Bastion
New to GSF? Look Here!. // And Here!

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
04.28.2014 , 07:59 PM | #10
For myself, as long as they're helping the queue be a bit faster I don't mind non-participants all that much. Strictly speaking, they could be better in a TDM than a new player doing lemming rushes to fiery death. I'd still rather have the noob on my team rather than the a.f.k.er, but if I'm getting to fly, that's good enough for me.

As for a.f.k.ers and bots on the other side? Well, what's not to like about free kills? If the other side wants to farm ours, well, they're welcome to them as far as I'm concerned.

Clearly I've played online games enough to lower my expectations for any group that's not a premade of people I know to the absolute minimum. The upside is that I get pleasantly surprised by groups on a regular basis.
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