Ok, I'm rolling my madness assassin (right now I'm not interested in others) in pvp and even I can farm medals for dps, protection, objectives, healing etc and become "invincible" almost every game... I'm not happy with my dps output (as I don't care for those stupid medals, but I wanna top the dps charts lol). So I'm interested in rotations people use and some general pvp tips, builds, gear (stalker or force master?), augments, relics etc. I really like idea of this tree, so I'd like to be better.

Respec Deception.

The Madness sin is quite honestly a joke in PvP, as the damage output you are capable is pretty weak for the type of play style it brings. I'd suggest going Deception as well, or even rolling a Lethality operative instead.

 

But rotation wise, it's all about making sure everyone on the other team has a DoT on them if you want to pump out the best damage numbers. Just don't be surprised when you play those matches where it's only fluff damage.

Getting high numbers for the scoreboard as a Madness Assassin is easy. You have a very large radius on Deathfield and it hits up to five targets. Not much reason to go into melee if you want to see numbers, just spam DoTs. Tab target and DoT for eaz-mode scoreboard-whoring. Edited November 14, 2013 by Majspuffen

Well, I dunno I don't wanna play deception. As I said I'm interested in playing madness/balance sin/shadow, mostly because everyone says it's ****.

 

I usually use spike, CT, recklessness, DF, LC, (if needed one of the cc), overcharged saber, trash, trash, trash, CD, DF + dots, trash, trash .... assassinate. I usually don't use maul at all and my build is 3/7/37 (I've abandon trashing blades darkness perk for deception's insulation to get 30% boost on armor, as madness is quite squishy). Now, my problem is just that even I dot everyone and use DF on groups (usually with recklessness), stay alive (but still in middle of fight) I don't have big dmg on score board. And I don't have any problems soloing deception or darkness assassins. Even those that are not noobs.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Zydean

Well, I dunno I don't wanna play deception. As I said I'm interested in playing madness/balance sin/shadow, mostly because everyone says it's ****.

 

I usually use spike, CT, recklessness, DF, LC, (if needed one of the cc), overcharged saber, trash, trash, trash, CD, DF + dots, trash, trash .... assassinate. I usually don't use maul at all and my build is 3/7/37 (I've abandon trashing blades darkness perk for deception's insulation to get 30% boost on armor, as madness is quite squishy). Now, my problem is just that even I dot everyone and use DF on groups (usually with recklessness), stay alive (but still in middle of fight) I don't have big dmg on score board. And I don't have any problems soloing deception or darkness assassins. Even those that are not noobs.

 

What's your stat setup look like in regards to crit, surge, bonus damage, and the procs you are using from the relics (assuming you're 55)?

Typical baddie. Doesn't care about objectives, just wants to top the damage board. Well friend, if you're trying to top the boards in madness, and not able to do so, you need to L2P. Madness assassins are amazing tab dotters. Absolute kings of fluff damage.

 

And the reason people say they're **** is that they are. In the time it takes you to get your three dots and DF applied, my deception sin will have that target damn near dead. Sure, I may not put up the same overall damage numbers as a (good) madness sin, but that's just because I killed my target a lot faster.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Jimvinny

Simple enough rotation: Death Field-Discharge-Creeping Terror-Discharge-Discharge-Discharge-Channeled Crushing Darkness-Thrash until instant Crushing Darkness-Apply Second Darkness to separate target-Creeping Terror etc...

 

NEVER*** use spike, it has no benefit and causes useless resolve gain. You're better off trying to start with a Crushing Darkness (channeled) from an area they aren't looking at.

 

Basically apply the Death Field debuff to 5 people, dot those people, apply 2 separate Crushing Darkness on 2 targets to stress the healer, Death Field/Assassinate to execute. I would also advise saving your recklessness for Force Lightning as you will get 30m range as well as increased chance to crit. Using Reck on Death Field burns up your stacks too quickly for not a lot of damage gain.

 

You can also dot everyone else, they won't take as much dot damage though.

 

NOTE: Death Field does 15% more damage to people below 30% health.

 

I would NOT use this in ranked unless you trust your team. The spec is VERY squishy ( It has a 30% DR that only applies when stunned and loses the 12 second 25% damage reduction of deception) and unless you have a tank that swaps guard or a healer that is watching, you will die FAST**. There is also a lack of any burst coming from Maddness which makes killing things tricky (also a great CC breaker)

 

Solo ranked is a bit worse because you rely too much on the others around you (whereas you have a little more breathing room in deception).

 

Spec works fine in regs (you should easily be able to get well over a million) if you're looking for scoreboard numbers.

 

As far as augments I'm running full Willpower. I stacked Power and Surge in my gear (taking different parts from both sorc and assasin gear). I'm running (with bolster) about 23% Crit-75% Surge-95% Accuracy-1776 Mainhand-1230? Bonus Force Damage. Usual big hits are 6K+ on a Death Field (7K against a low geared enemy)

 

** The reason I say FAST is because I can lose 50% of my health from 2 GCD of a well geared operative (big hit of 8.1K)

***Spike should only be used as a second interrupt on a non-whitebarred target.

Edited November 14, 2013 by jackrunip

If you enjoy madness, but still want to be useful to your team, I'd suggest rolling a sorc. Not only is it far more effective, but it's also far more enjoyable. Edited November 14, 2013 by LaVall

If you enjoy madness, but still want to be useful to your team, I'd suggest rolling a sorc. Not only is it far more effective, but it's also far more enjoyable.

 

unfortuntely this. On my server there is only 1 guy currently playing it (nope, it's not me ), it's so sad.

Typical baddie. Doesn't care about objectives, just wants to top the damage board. Well friend, if you're trying to top the boards in madness, and not able to do so, you need to L2P. Madness assassins are amazing tab dotters. Absolute kings of fluff damage. .

 

I'd kindly ask you not to post if you gonna be immature troll. I've opened this thread because of damage problem I have while playing this spec. I've never said that I don't care about objectives (I said I don't care about medals) - I've just asked about certain problem I have. All the people that played with me, or against me, on my server know that I'm objective oriented and quite good with my main (and few other alts).

 

Also, there's really big difference between playing madness sorc and madness assassin. There is a reason why people don't play madness sins.

 

But even if inexperienced player asked question I don't really see a reason for you to behave like this. Who do you think you are?

Simple enough rotation: Death Field-Discharge-Creeping Terror-Discharge-Discharge-Discharge-Channeled Crushing Darkness-Thrash until instant Crushing Darkness-Apply Second Darkness to separate target-Creeping Terror etc...

 

NEVER*** use spike, it has no benefit and causes useless resolve gain. You're better off trying to start with a Crushing Darkness (channeled) from an area they aren't looking at.

 

Basically apply the Death Field debuff to 5 people, dot those people, apply 2 separate Crushing Darkness on 2 targets to stress the healer, Death Field/Assassinate to execute. I would also advise saving your recklessness for Force Lightning as you will get 30m range as well as increased chance to crit. Using Reck on Death Field burns up your stacks too quickly for not a lot of damage gain.

 

You can also dot everyone else, they won't take as much dot damage though.

 

NOTE: Death Field does 15% more damage to people below 30% health.

 

I would NOT use this in ranked unless you trust your team. The spec is VERY squishy ( It has a 30% DR that only applies when stunned and loses the 12 second 25% damage reduction of deception) and unless you have a tank that swaps guard or a healer that is watching, you will die FAST**. There is also a lack of any burst coming from Maddness which makes killing things tricky (also a great CC breaker)

 

Solo ranked is a bit worse because you rely too much on the others around you (whereas you have a little more breathing room in deception).

 

Spec works fine in regs (you should easily be able to get well over a million) if you're looking for scoreboard numbers.

 

As far as augments I'm running full Willpower. I stacked Power and Surge in my gear (taking different parts from both sorc and assasin gear). I'm running (with bolster) about 23% Crit-75% Surge-95% Accuracy-1776 Mainhand-1230? Bonus Force Damage. Usual big hits are 6K+ on a Death Field (7K against a low geared enemy)

 

** The reason I say FAST is because I can lose 50% of my health from 2 GCD of a well geared operative (big hit of 8.1K)

***Spike should only be used as a second interrupt on a non-whitebarred target.

 

Thanks for tips. Especially spike one...

 

What relics are you using? I have full conquer gear and I'm using SA and I've decided to try Devastating Vengeance (that gives crit boost).

 

Also what is your melee accuracy? I have force accuracy 105% but melee is little bit low. I was thinking of putting an accuracy augment... I'm mostly using Resolve and Fortitude 28 augments.

 

Highest dmg I got so far was around 800k. But I've seen people with bigger dmg on madness sins so I've wanted to ask others who play about their stuff.

If you enjoy madness, but still want to be useful to your team, I'd suggest rolling a sorc. Not only is it far more effective, but it's also far more enjoyable.

 

I have one with 78 valor. But wanted to try something else

for max dps go.. 7/2/37

as far as crit i'm around 26,5 % with full buffs.. rest power

gear stalker...

power and crit relics.. you can swap crit for matrix cube..

aug willpower

 

as for rotation..

FiB before dots.. rest is up to you.

Use your brain and you'll be just fine ;]

 

 

Balance sages do far more damage though..

Edited November 15, 2013 by Sabatiel

Simple enough rotation: Death Field-Discharge-Creeping Terror-Discharge-Discharge-Discharge-Channeled Crushing Darkness-Thrash until instant Crushing Darkness-Apply Second Darkness to separate target-Creeping Terror etc...

 

NEVER*** use spike, it has no benefit and causes useless resolve gain. You're better off trying to start with a Crushing Darkness (channeled) from an area they aren't looking at.

 

Would you know what this translates into playing a Balance Shadow? I can't play an Assassin, because that would entail going through that maddeningly insipid Ashara Zavros storyline a second time, and the one time through on the sorcie was torture enough as it was. I can tolerate the Consular story enough, so Shadow looks like something I'd like to try...and as it's the Assassin's mirror, it seems my best bet.

Thanks for tips. Especially spike one...

 

What relics are you using? I have full conquer gear and I'm using SA and I've decided to try Devastating Vengeance (that gives crit boost).

 

Also what is your melee accuracy? I have force accuracy 105% but melee is little bit low. I was thinking of putting an accuracy augment... I'm mostly using Resolve and Fortitude 28 augments.

 

Highest dmg I got so far was around 800k. But I've seen people with bigger dmg on madness sins so I've wanted to ask others who play about their stuff.

 

Stats are out of warzone.

 

Relics: Oberon(sp?) Focused Retribution (primary stat) + Serendipitous Assault (power)

 

Melee accuracy: 95.03% (my attacks that matter rarely miss)

 

Personally I would advise not getting the crit boost. You get the passive 45% boost for your breach/discharge from the tank tree.

 

Would you know what this translates into playing a Balance Shadow? I can't play an Assassin, because that would entail going through that maddeningly insipid Ashara Zavros storyline a second time, and the one time through on the sorcie was torture enough as it was. I can tolerate the Consular story enough, so Shadow looks like something I'd like to try...and as it's the Assassin's mirror, it seems my best bet.

 

Force in Balance-Breach-Sever Force-Breach-Breach-Breach-Channeled Mind Crush-Double Strike until instant Mind Crush-Apply Second Crush to seperate target-Sever Force etc...

Thx.

 

I wanted to experiment with crit or primary stat to see what's better

 

Personally I would advise not getting the crit boost. You get the passive 45% boost for your breach/discharge from the tank tree.

 

 

as far as I know that gives boost only to Force Technique's crit chance not Breach, nor any other DoTs...

 

And believe me higher crit chance = higher survivability

my two cents...

Edited November 15, 2013 by Sabatiel

as far as I know that gives boost only to Force Technique's crit chance not Breach, nor any other DoTs...

 

And believe me higher crit chance = higher survivability

my two cents...

 

Yeah, madness is the one tree we have that I think it's clearly obvious that you want some crit chance, even though it will probably lower your overall damage. The other specs mostly are power-stacking, with maybe some crit in deception if you feel inclined to do so (I don't).

The madness tree has a lot of stuff buffing the surge and nothing giving autocrits or buffing crit chance anywhere in the tree. And the talent he mentioned here only affects the actual charge damage, NOT the discharge damage or any other dot's damage.

 

Anyways if you want to maximize your damage as a madness sin, you are going to have to tab-dot and be a useless dbag. But you should top the dps charts without doing that, and it isn't necessary at all.

What you should be doing as a madness sin in pvp is focusing your damage on a single target and switching as needed to account for guard/cooldowns/etc. IE when the mara pops undying, it's not a big deal for you because your dots are still on him. Just apply your dots to another target or drop some cc or a death field or whatever for that time then get back on the mara and finish him off. Same for stealth or phase walk or whatever.

Since your dots last 18s your dps will naturally increase as the guard/cooldowns force(s) you to swap targets. If there is no guard and you are able to stay on target, you need to stay on him til hes dead. Since your damage is almost entirely internal damage, you'll be doing more single target dps than most players in the warzone (including madness sorcs) so your target should eventually drop if everyone is doing their job. Just know that when the other team figures out what you're doing, you're going to be the focused guy, so have your escape plan ready.

Please whatever you do don't go into the game and tab-dot for dps numbers. Nobody even cares about that anymore, the sites that used to track that stuff aren't even active.

as far as I know that gives boost only to Force Technique's crit chance not Breach, nor any other DoTs...

 

You're right, I went this entire time misunderstanding what that provided. My mind kept equating "Force Technique" with breach.

You're right, I went this entire time misunderstanding what that provided. My mind kept equating "Force Technique" with breach.

 

You're were not the only one. Buffing Force Breach would be awesome! But what exactly do we gain from buffing our random tick that deals like 200 damage? Bioware seem to absolutely love the Force Technique proc, seeing as how they've given us so many talents to buff it with (LAMBASTE!!!) but personally I hate it. Even with Battle Readiness the proc is extremely lackluster... what is the point? -.-

You're were not the only one. Buffing Force Breach would be awesome! But what exactly do we gain from buffing our random tick that deals like 200 damage? Bioware seem to absolutely love the Force Technique proc, seeing as how they've given us so many talents to buff it with (LAMBASTE!!!) but personally I hate it. Even with Battle Readiness the proc is extremely lackluster... what is the point? -.-

 

EDIT: I see what you mean. You're right, as it stands there isn't really a point to having that ability. It doesn't really add anything as far as healing or damage is concerned.

 

PS: I should L2R. Thought Lambaste generated a Breach tick on those it hit. That would have provided 10%(?) instant health when 5 targets were hit...I see now, what a useless talent.

 

...

 

When I first was leveling my Shadow it was 1.7 where you didn't see many full Infiltration (days of the hybrids). I based my gear design off of high surge and high power. When the 2.0 crit nerf came I found that stacking crit no longer provided the high % I wanted. (My scoundrel went from 40% down to 26-28% with 300-400 crit). I figured that sitting at about 23% was decent enough (at 200 Crit). If I get enough coms to regear I wouldn't mind testing out a higher crit build on Balance.

 

I rushed my original post (happens when I type at work). I agree that your main focus should be on a single target. However, in a match against multiple healers (with few or no CCs) I find it better to DOT most of the enemy team in order to stress the healers. If you're only hitting 1-2 people against 3 healers then the damage is easily covered (especially if you don't have help as Balance/Maddness is missing burst). Hitting 8 people on the other hand (in combination with SOME of your DPS attacking those targets) should give the healers a bit more trouble.

 

Of course, you'll want to be smart about what you DOT in the situation where you need to CC things. I'll usually save my Lift/Whirlwind for the healer that is hiding in the corner, away from the group I'm attacking.

 

Tip: When using Lift/Whirlwind I suggest "masking" your cast. You have to face your target to start the channel. Once it's started turn back to the main fight. This way it looks like you're not going to CC your intended target. A lot of healers will be focused on the health bars or looking for people that seem to be staring at them. They won't be looking for a backwards CC.

Edited November 15, 2013 by jackrunip

Thank you for all your comments as they have been really helpful. I'm going to test them in following days so I'll let you what I think.

 

Last night I had really nice dps and on my extreme joy I soloed friend who was cocky deception sin