Selflessness trumps ruthless self-interest.

The Sith also fear death, while the Jedi do not.

Selflessness trumps ruthless self-interest.

 

The Sith also fear death, while the Jedi do not.

It's funny but when I look at a map of the galaxy prior to and after the start of the war, I can't help thinking the fact that the jedi got their asses whooped out of half of the galaxy over the course of 30 years refutes your point. I can't even begin to explain the spacial relationships involved but the jedi must have been losing at LEAST millions of cubic miles per day just to fail at such an astounding rate.

Selflessness trumps ruthless self-interest.

 

The Sith also fear death, while the Jedi do not.

So you're basically comparing the Jedi to suicide bombers?

Saying the Light is more powerful than the Dark or vice versa is the same thing as saying the Force is more powerful than the Force.

Here are the main differences:

Dark Side pros: Quicker power, more aggressive and far more applicable against others.

Light Side pros: Self-control, emotional control, ability to achieve oneness with the force, true immortality.

Dark Side cons: Lack of self-control, emotionally unbalanced, inability to become truly immortal.

Light Side cons: Growth in ability and power takes a lot longer.

I feel a sudden urge to make a male scoundrel with whatever face resembles Bruce Campbell the most.

If you mean Republic vs Empire and:

If you really mean using the Dark-side of the force vs the Light-side it's like said above. Both have their strenght and weaknesses and I'd definitly not say that the Light-side is more powerful. There's a lot of strenght in the Dark-side.

If you mean Republic vs Empire and:

 

 

Why they have the upperhand in the war at the end of every class-story. 2 Empire-side stories are based on killing your superiors and thus focussing on thinning out your own forces rather than overcoming the Republic. 1 Story helps both sides and get a major blown struck to the Empires non-force users. 1 Story can end in 2 ways, helping the Sith and killing an important Republic leader or siding with him and turning on your Sith employer. Where-as the Republic-side has 1 gathering a big army, 1 striking a big blow against a Grand Admiral, 1 capturing (possibly releasing) another important Empire-person and 1 striking a blow against the Emperor himself. So yes, that makes the Dark-side quite a bit weaker, but opens up potentional for growth and a come-back

 

 

If you really mean using the Dark-side of the force vs the Light-side it's like said above. Both have their strenght and weaknesses and I'd definitly not say that the Light-side is more powerful. There's a lot of strenght in the Dark-side.

A lot of strength to the Dark-side yes. More powerful? No. It's part of established lore that the Light Side is stronger. There's no debating that. It's been said. It's canon. Seriously, whatever your thoughts on it are, Light Side is more powerful. Is it as free as Dark Side? I'd say yes, but not until Luke. Basically it takes centuries for the Light Side to figure out "OMG! We don't have to hold back!"

But Dark Side is the easier path to power and way more seductive. But being selfish usually tends to be more seductive.

So you're basically comparing the Jedi to suicide bombers?

No.

Kamikaze pilots where usually drunk and sent out low on fuel.

Suicide bombers have it easier. Get wrapped in a bomb and push a button. It's why suicides with guns are 2/3rd of guns deaths in America. Get depressed, pull a trigger with no time to think on it.

Jedi get plenty of time to think on it

The Sith also fear death...

Darth Marr would like a word with you.

The aforementioned comment about the light being stronger than the dark according to lore aside for a moment...

I don't think it's a really fair test to say that because the Jedi often get their collective butt kicked by the Sith of the day makes the light side necessarily weaker than the the dark side. That's more a question of whether Jedi are weaker than Sith, which is far more of a case by case basis comparison.

Saying the light side is inherently stronger/weaker than the dark side due to the Jedi losing to the Sith or vice versa is a lot like saying a katana is an inferior weapon to a rapier because the people with the rapiers killed the people with the katanas. You might be able to come to that conclusion based on the immediate evidence, in this case that there are no katana users left, while some rapier wielders are alive.

But I think it'd be a potentially misleading conclusion. Too much evidence is omitted. You're missing all kinds of context and information that would allow you to come to a more thorough understanding of why one side won and the other side lost. You have to take into account comparative numbers from both sides in the fight, relative strength of the opponents in terms of physical ability, training, experience, etc, battle conditions. There are far too many variables to just categorically say one side is immediately superior to the other based on what essentially breaks down into a win-loss record.

Also, ff you want to argue that the light is more/less powerful than the dark, you'd have to be as inclusive as possible in who you included into the debate, because the Jedi and Sith don't have a monopoly on using either side. There are multitudes of Force-using disciplines from both sides. The Jedi and Sith are just the most prominent representatives of the light and dark, respectively.

So, it's not just as easy as sitting there seeing Palpatine kill four Jedi Masters and going "Oh! Well, that proves it!" or watching Obi-Wan get the better of Anakin, then drawing the conclusion that one side of the Force is better than the other.

I almost think the original essence of this thread was: "Why Jed are more powerful than Sith"

A lot of strength to the Dark-side yes. More powerful? No. It's part of established lore that the Light Side is stronger. There's no debating that. It's been said. It's canon. Seriously, whatever your thoughts on it are, Light Side is more powerful. Is it as free as Dark Side? I'd say yes, but not until Luke. Basically it takes centuries for the Light Side to figure out "OMG! We don't have to hold back!"

 

But Dark Side is the easier path to power and way more seductive. But being selfish usually tends to be more seductive.

Care to tell me how you reached this conclusion? if your basis is Grand Master Skywalker, he had the potential of the Chosen One, hardly a legitimate judgement.

Care to tell me how you reached this conclusion? if your basis is Grand Master Skywalker, he had the potential of the Chosen One, hardly a legitimate judgement.

On which part exactly? You mean how Yoda said as such? Or because Luke showed you could form attachments, stay lightside and still be powerful?

Selflessness trumps ruthless self-interest.

 

The Sith also fear death, while the Jedi do not.

Actually, enlightened self-interest trumps all.

On which part exactly? You mean how Yoda said as such? Or because Luke showed you could form attachments, stay lightside and still be powerful?

Yoda is hardly an impartial voice in this matter.

Also, I certainly see what you mean... as long as we forget about the little Jacen/Caedus thing but that totally didn't prove the Orthodox Jedi Order's point on love for the second time in a row.

Simply put I whole-heartedly believe that claiming one side is more powerful than the other is still the same as claiming the Force is more powerful than the Force.

On which part exactly? You mean how Yoda said as such? Or because Luke showed you could form attachments, stay lightside and still be powerful?

no the part where you pulled a bunch of stuff about the "light being more powerful" completely all-the-way out of your ***, and then called it canon. If you can provide even one canonical source for this that isn't just something some jedi said in passing (because to find a sith saying the dark side is more powerful would be impossible).

If you don't understand that it's a moot point and that the dark and light side are just conceptual personifications of the real world conflict between good and evil (yin and yang, dao and shiva etc.) that is both ceaseless and by it's very Nature balanced;then you're a fool and have a poor eye for lit-comprehension

One side cannot be more powerful then the other, if that's the case it just means they're approaching the point where they'll fall (See the entire star wars universe history). Also stop riding jedi dick, it gives the impression that you're a 14 year old.

A lot of strength to the Dark-side yes. More powerful? No. It's part of established lore that the Light Side is stronger. There's no debating that. It's been said. It's canon. Seriously, whatever your thoughts on it are, Light Side is more powerful. Is it as free as Dark Side? I'd say yes, but not until Luke. Basically it takes centuries for the Light Side to figure out "OMG! We don't have to hold back!"

How can something be 'more powerful' than its mirror image? The concept of 'power' doesn't apply to the Light Side or Dark Side, because they are two halves of the same thing: they are the Force.

And as for Luke, he quite obviously isn't 'the most powerful' Jedi ever, because we see other Jedi do things he was unable to. The big deal about Luke was that he wasn't indoctrinated from a young age in how to be a 'real' Jedi (which led to the order's ossification and stagnation as shown in the prequels) so his mind is open to a third path - neither Light nor Dark, embracing his emotions but not controlled by them. Revan's path, basically.

no the part where you pulled a bunch of stuff about the "light being more powerful" completely all-the-way out of your ***, and then called it canon. If you can provide even one canonical source for this that isn't just something some jedi said in passing (because to find a sith saying the dark side is more powerful would be impossible).

 

If you don't understand that it's a moot point and that the dark and light side are just conceptual personifications of the real world conflict between good and evil (yin and yang, dao and shiva etc.) that is both ceaseless and by it's very Nature balanced;then you're a fool and have a poor eye for lit-comprehension

 

One side cannot be more powerful then the other, if that's the case it just means they're approaching the point where they'll fall (See the entire star wars universe history). Also stop riding jedi dick, it gives the impression that you're a 14 year old.

Pretty sure GL has said as such himself. But now it seems like it's more that you want to try and turn what is essentially a Good vs Evil story (Star Wars) into your homogenized idea of making stories grey and go with your Sith character all hero and powerful.

Seriously, it's been this way since the beginning. Not to mention I don't recall Yoda ever really lying. Not telling the whole truth, sure (let's not tell Luke he has a sister), but lying, I don't recall. Not even so much as Ben's, certain point of view.

Pretty sure GL has said as such himself.

Counterpoint: GL also thought Midichlorians were a good idea.

Pretty sure GL has said as such himself. But now it seems like it's more that you want to try and turn what is essentially a Good vs Evil story (Star Wars) into your homogenized idea of making stories grey and go with your Sith character all hero and powerful.

 

Seriously, it's been this way since the beginning. Not to mention I don't recall Yoda ever really lying. Not telling the whole truth, sure (let's not tell Luke he has a sister), but lying, I don't recall. Not even so much as Ben's, certain point of view.

GL said in the AOTC commentary that the dark side is more powerful

Selflessness trumps ruthless self-interest.

 

The Sith also fear death, while the Jedi do not.

Wasn't Batman weak because he didn't fear death?

"How can you move faster than possible, fight longer than possible without the most powerful impulse of the spirit: the fear of death."

GL said in the AOTC commentary that the dark side is more powerful

No he said in relevance to Anakin's situation that the Dark Side would be more powerful, for him.

No he said in relevance to Anakin's situation that the Dark Side would be more powerful, for him.

Thats where I disagree with you.

Thats where I disagree with you.

Agree or not the AOTC commentary was very precise in it's context.

Agree or not the AOTC commentary was very precise in it's context.

And so were the movies in which the dark side is more powerful. Luke even needs to call on the dark side to beat Vader.