OK here is my rant take it for what you will.

So far the end game content in this game is a joke. My guild can complete KP and EV in one night with little no no effort and just pugging people in if the core group is not there. So in 2-3 weeks at about 6-8h most of them will be in full rakatta. Then what? What is next. Ohh nothing.

Then there is PvP, the reason I play mmorpgs. At one time getting to Battle Master was a big deal you had to WANT it. You had to have some skill to get the badges and a little luck with others voting for you so you could get the extra valor. Now they are giving the points away. 1500 points for a win was the max I had ever heard of anyone getting now people are getting 2500+ for a loss. Who cares if my team wins or loses just keep on going.

Now I suspect that bioware did all of the above for the casual gamer, many who were not able to compete with the power gamers. The thing is they have dumbed down the game way to much. Is there any sense of accomplishment when you hit Battlemaster or you get that Rakatta piece? For most people the answer is no. In fact they EXPECT to get them, after all everyone else has them why shouldn't I is the thoght process.

So yeah 1.2 had better be something really special or I see a bunch of people leaving. Lightsabers or not there is no reason to stay in a game that has little to no challenge to it.

Rayth-Cho-Mai

I hope you understand that 'hardcore' gamers are the vast minority in this game... casual gamers making up the bulk of players. So yes, they are trying to appeal to the majority of their players.

You have to learn to deal with that fact. I am sorry you don't feel like a special snowflake anymore.

So yeah 1.2 had better be something really special or I see a bunch of people leaving. Lightsabers or not there is no reason to stay in a game that has little to no challenge to it.

Maybe cut your losses, mitigate your upcoming disappointment, and unsub now??

Tip: amatuer proclomamations and threats serve no productive purpose in forum discussion, and they certanily do not deserve their own thread. You could have attached your concerns to any number of existing threads.

On the other hand, you admitted you were ranting..... so maybe that makes it all OK.

I do agree that its just giveaway valor now

But if you think it was a big deal to get BM I feel bad for you. All it is, is time

Its like saying getting to 50 is a big deal

 

Then there is PvP, the reason I play mmorpgs.

Rants are fine, but this just made me laugh. It's sad really, but hey, to each their own.

If I want to pvp, the last thing I want to play is a mmorpg. Give me a shooter any day. At least skill is more important than gear there.

I do agree it's too quick to get rakkata gear in this game. Not that I have it but I've only done a couple of ops in normal mode and am not in a hurry to rush myself out of things to do.

If I want to pvp, the last thing I want to play is a mmorpg. Give me a shooter any day. At least skill is more important than gear there.

it's skill to exploit the MAV as a sniper elevator? What about IR scopes before their nerf, or flashlights? Noob tubing? Are pyros in 2fort skillful? What about AWP camping?

Every fps has issues, just of a different kind, every pvp has issues. Since the meshing of fps and persistence mechanics, there's "gear" there as well, and kitting up your character matters almost as much as an mmo.

Not trolling, just giving food for thought after reading your post.

As for 1.2, I think we all accept the patch is pretty much going to determine the fate of the game. I remain cautiously optimistic.

If your playing 6-8 hours a day it doesn't make you any better than a casual necessarily, it just means you get stuff faster. There are some very fine casual players out there, very good skills.

You probably are better than most casual players, if nothing else just because of the amount you play, but if they make things easier to get it just means you get them all the more faster.

Such is the way these games have gone over the last X years. The vast majority of players are casuals. Keep them happy and you got a profit. Power gamer/Hardcore players just have to deal with that reality or find a different game.

Yes this game is way too easy, in my opinion, but so will every other MMO out there be similar, because that yields the most profit.

If you want a harder game go play a harder MMO, such as Darkfall or similar that does not cater so easily to casuals, but has a very small (comparative) player base as a result, or EvE, something like that.

Play your way and take your choices, move on or suck it up because that is the way every MMO and game is going to be since WOW got it's foot in the door.

PvP in this game and WOW always has been and always will be a bit of a joke by the way, it is not real PvP or even close to it, but it will do for the majority.

But you already knew this and just wanted to vent about it....right?

Rants are fine, but this just made me laugh. It's sad really, but hey, to each their own.

 

If I want to pvp, the last thing I want to play is a mmorpg. Give me a shooter any day. At least skill is more important than gear there.

 

I do agree it's too quick to get rakkata gear in this game. Not that I have it but I've only done a couple of ops in normal mode and am not in a hurry to rush myself out of things to do.

Yeah I would love to play FPS but haven't in years for some reason they make me motion sick which is odd since I never get that way anywhere else. So I have to take what I can get.

I hope you understand that 'hardcore' gamers are the vast minority in this game... casual gamers making up the bulk of players. So yes, they are trying to appeal to the majority of their players.

 

You have to learn to deal with that fact. I am sorry you don't feel like a special snowflake anymore.

Minority or not, catering to hardcore benefits both groups. WoW used to do that and they had the best mmo back in vanilla and tbc. Now see how bad that game is when they started catering to casuals and bads, abomination of a game it used to be.

Minority or not, catering to hardcore benefits both groups. WoW used to do that and they had the best mmo back in vanilla and tbc. Now see how bad that game is when they started catering to casuals and bads, abomination of a game it used to be.

How does catering to hardcores help everyone?

They are simply trying to appeal to the largest group of players... casuals.

OK here is my rant take it for what you will.

 

So far the end game content in this game is a joke. My guild can complete KP and EV in one night with little no no effort and just pugging people in if the core group is not there. So in 2-3 weeks at about 6-8h most of them will be in full rakatta. Then what? What is next. Ohh nothing.

 

Then there is PvP, the reason I play mmorpgs. At one time getting to Battle Master was a big deal you had to WANT it. You had to have some skill to get the badges and a little luck with others voting for you so you could get the extra valor. Now they are giving the points away. 1500 points for a win was the max I had ever heard of anyone getting now people are getting 2500+ for a loss. Who cares if my team wins or loses just keep on going.

 

Now I suspect that bioware did all of the above for the casual gamer, many who were not able to compete with the power gamers. The thing is they have dumbed down the game way to much. Is there any sense of accomplishment when you hit Battlemaster or you get that Rakatta piece? For most people the answer is no. In fact they EXPECT to get them, after all everyone else has them why shouldn't I is the thoght process.

 

So yeah 1.2 had better be something really special or I see a bunch of people leaving. Lightsabers or not there is no reason to stay in a game that has little to no challenge to it.

 

Rayth-Cho-Mai

1.2 is not significant. People will continue to leave. And anyone that is gone, has no reason to come back. Give the game at east a year to be even slightly competitive.

Right now and for the foreseeable future, swtor doesn't do and will not do anything better than any other mmo. Same game different wrapper. Been there done that type of thing.

Okay, story, big deal. You want a story read a book.

Yeah I would love to play FPS but haven't in years for some reason they make me motion sick which is odd since I never get that way anywhere else. So I have to take what I can get.

motion sick from a video game? thats the strangest thing ive ever heard

I hope you understand that 'hardcore' gamers are the vast minority in this game... casual gamers making up the bulk of players. So yes, they are trying to appeal to the majority of their players.

 

You have to learn to deal with that fact. I am sorry you don't feel like a special snowflake anymore.

Bingo, along with the fact most peope are NOT has hardcore as they think they are..

Patch 1.2 will a nice patch, if anyone thinks its going to be the mother load of all game patches in the known universe, I am sure will be disapointed.

Games post wow are driven by the casual player, since wow woke them up, I am not saying anything wrong with that, but companies follow the business models that have been proven to make money..

Then there is PvP, the reason I play mmorpgs. At one time getting to Battle Master was a big deal you had to WANT it. You had to have some skill to get the badges and a little luck with others voting for you so you could get the extra valor. Now they are giving the points away. 1500 points for a win was the max I had ever heard of anyone getting now people are getting 2500+ for a loss. Who cares if my team wins or loses just keep on going.

If you play MMOs to PvP, and you feel that getting Battlemaster was an indication of anything then you might be stuck in an awkward niche of players who will never be satisfied with the design of games like TOR.

The reason I say that is because I play MMOs to PvP, and I have many friends who are the same. Nothing about the current incarnation of valor ranks and gear tiers is related to performance in PvP. "PvP"ers in MMOs aren't concerned with gear progression. In particular, valor rank was simply a direct proportion of time spent. You didn't have to win or lose, you simply had to collect a certain number of medals, build valor up high enough from playing, and then purchase gear. No real PvP player I've spoken with is terribly concerned with replacing their battlemaster gear with an unrestricted gear set. Many of them welcome the idea because it will provide more people who can compete based on skill. More will be attracted to the game if they feel that they can improve themselves in a more engaging manner than spending X hours to equip so many items.

People who are more PvE minded (concerned with gear progressions and other game mechanic-related improvements) and play PvP prefer the sort of valor system in place because they aren't as concerned with practicing PvP tactics as much as they are concerned with acquiring some virtual progression.

How does catering to hardcores help everyone?

 

They are simply trying to appeal to the largest group of players... casuals.

Catering to the hardcore, and making a game that keeps them playing 6-8 hours a day means that your 'casual' players will be with the game a lot longer and never get bored.

Replaying content is the stupidest idea to come into the gaming industry, and has greatly set pack the chances for innovation in PvE.

This game has 90% of it's content through the single player story line. It is a game to play for a few months, then put it down for a year, and re-sub for a month every year or so to do the new stuff. BioWare has shown us that they can't churn out content at any effective speed.

+1 to the games that charge 3x as much as they should. When you target the casual crowd the subscription price should drop as much as the difference between the casual and hardcore play times. Same exact problem DCUO had.

The Box cost pays for the storylines and the subscription pays for the repeatable content. In this case, the repeatable content should be a $5/month subscription.

BioWare has shown us that they can't churn out content at any effective speed.

Say what? This is their first MMO... how have they shown that?

They are releasing major content less than 4 months after release. It's only the 'hardcore content locusts' that feel that content isn't being released quick enough.

People keep using the word joke.

I don't think they know what that means.

Edit:

And battlemaster doesn't take skills. It takes time.

Minority or not, catering to hardcore benefits both groups. WoW used to do that and they had the best mmo back in vanilla and tbc. Now see how bad that game is when they started catering to casuals and bads, abomination of a game it used to be.

That's a load. Vanilla WoW had no benefit to PvP, until they implemented battlefields. Before that, it was just Tauren Hill. Once they did implement battlefields and rewards, many complained about the system implemented. Eventually, Blizzard "dumbed" it down for the rest of the players.

usually the rules for add-ons/content-patches is: if you don't like the original game chances are you won't be happy after things get added either

that being said, I will be able to play a chiss smuggler so this makes 1.2 EPIC EPIC EPIC

Minority or not, catering to hardcore benefits both groups. WoW used to do that and they had the best mmo back in vanilla and tbc. Now see how bad that game is when they started catering to casuals and bads, abomination of a game it used to be.

Pandering to the "hardcore" "power gamers" would be the death knell for this game. Typically such "pro-gamers" move on quickly, which is why they are more at home on a X box or PS3.

I have zero time nor tolerance for anyone who proclaims themselves to be pro, hardcore or power gaming. Typically their ingame achievements are all they have, with little or nothing to show in their real lives.

Sure, there are a small number that do make a profession out of it, but they are the exception, not the rule.

This game, like WoW, needs to remain as mainstream as possible for a MMO if it is to continue to grow and thrive.

Pandering to "pro-players" who will not be here in 6 months because they have moved to the next "big thing" would be suicide for this game.

Catering to the hardcore, and making a game that keeps them playing 6-8 hours a day means that your 'casual' players will be with the game a lot longer and never get bored.

 

Replaying content is the stupidest idea to come into the gaming industry, and has greatly set pack the chances for innovation in PvE.

 

This game has 90% of it's content through the single player story line. It is a game to play for a few months, then put it down for a year, and re-sub for a month every year or so to do the new stuff. BioWare has shown us that they can't churn out content at any effective speed.

 

+1 to the games that charge 3x as much as they should. When you target the casual crowd the subscription price should drop as much as the difference between the casual and hardcore play times. Same exact problem DCUO had.

 

The Box cost pays for the storylines and the subscription pays for the repeatable content. In this case, the repeatable content should be a $5/month subscription.

What a load of nonesense.

Every MMO is about repetition. Daily quests, repeatables and yes pvp. Even though they might say every fight is different, it's not. It's all about routines you build up by experience.

Catering to hardcore players doesn't work for a very simply reason: You cannot create actual content fast enough to keep up with hardcore players. Repetition is the only thing and that's why there are flash points that can be repeated every day.

It's simply not possible, if you want to actually make a profit, to make enough content to cater to the hardcore players. And besides, most casual players aren't into the same things that hardcore players like to do. So a lot of the content that would be created for hardcore players will simply never be done by casual players. And this is the basic element where your thinking is flawed.

Right now, as they said, only 34% of all level 50s have done operations. Or in other words, so far the vast majority of level 50s haven't done a single operation.

The question there is why. So why is that you might wonder. I know that aside from the massive bugs that seem to mostly plague the normal mode version, not everybody is into raiding. So there is another ops and another warzone coming (and a fp). That raid supposedly will be a lot tougher than the current ones. A lot of people are doing PvP so they are doing more for that as well.

And there's a lot of legacy stuff coming out in 1.2 and 1.3

So yeah think about this. While a relatively small percentage is crying for tougher content, a vast majority doesn't even have rakkata gear sets, let alone columi. And when 1.2 hits and you rush off a lot of players aren't even near that. I don't see a great advantage to dividing the community up even more, but perhaps the story mode operations will give more cause for casual people to start doing raids. Perhaps making companions a lot stronger via the legacy stuff will make them more viable in endgame content.

The strangest things can happen.

Although I would like to see more variation in what's there to do in a MMO, all that's needed for hard core players is a new ops that is tough as nails in Nightmare and even Hard Mode and let it take them months to get one armour piece because it is that tough. That's all it takes.

The rest of us lesser gods can get more fun out of their gameplay with the legacy stuff, crafting etc. And that takes a lot more programming than one ops I would think.

So, perhaps 1.2 is going to bring exactly that.

if people are that concerned with things going way too fast, go back to galaxies >.< I stayed with WoW from beta till cata, and from my experience I can say that they've shifted from the so called 'hard core' aka jobless sacks of Hutt that can afford to invest lavish amounts of playtime each day, to the casual joe who works 9-5 has a social life but needs a few hours to unwind from a stressful day.

When going to school full time, vanilla wow felt like a long grind that didn't really pay off after every playtime, and was annoying because I couldn't keep up with friends who were the former. After college I had about 8 months of job hunting and lots of time on my hands and thus put a lot more time into the game and felt rewarded for it, at the cost of no monetary income.

Now, years later, I work 9-5 and have real life needs to attend to, so the way WoW is now, and in this case the old republic, I absolutely love the pace of things. I feel like I really accomplished things after every play period, even if it was only 3-4 hours.

If Bioware can keep up and release expansion packs that add more unique story content I will be on this bandwagon for much time to come.

This game is really not hardcore oriented, unless they decide to dramatically shift things to that. Who knows, it may happen. Until then I am REALLY happy with this game. If a game gets too grueling where playing becomes more of a job then a stress release (aka games like FF online, EvE, galaxies) then the majority will not be interested, and that majority now are us mere meek casuals haha

Hey, everyone look, a 'hardcore' gamer making a thread about the game not being 'hardcore' enough. Quick, look at this new and interesting topic before it goes away!

BTW, 1.2 will be a very special update, as they will add tons of stuff for casual players.