Hey guys,

We all did a great job getting Biowares attention with regards to the Bolster/gear issue for pvp in 5.10.

With all the multiple threads in the Gen section, PTS section and PVP forum sections, and player support for change, we were able to get Bioware to take some action.

Now we just need to have a concerted effort to get them to look at the Desync and Bug problems plaguing pvp.

I think if we can make this problem front and centre and get plenty of supporting discussions around it in all relevant forums section and other social media, then Bioware will have to see it’s a problem,

Snave already started on twitter https://twitter.com/snave1208/status/1060160292322193409?s=21

Let’s all ask Musco

“We got them to change the lightbulb now let’s get them to rebuild the building”.

Have to start somewhere

This literally can't be fixed without rebuilding the games engine.....and that is 100% not going to happen.

I doubt that's true. They obviously can't completely eliminate it but there are almost certainly ways to reduce it.

It's definitely a way more complex issue than just changing bolster though. Ones just a design choice, ones an actual optimization issue. They know desync exists, and I would like them to devote resources to trying to improve it, but yeah it's not really the same thing.

“We got them to change the lightbulb now let’s get them to rebuild the building”.

Heh yeah, the comparison really fits its like I finnaly got a gaming laptop which gives awesome game performance but the dsync is still dare cause... its not a PC issue but the engine. Oh well, what can we do....

The fact that dsync got worse over time proves it can at least be rolled back to its least annoying state, even if it can't be completely removed, without a full rework. I am not sure that the fact we got listened to once means that the devs are currently on "listening mode"

But here's hoping, nevertheless

I have to say the desync is a big issue and it is getting worse and worse. It really hinders proper action in ranked PVP as when operatives roll and desync you really arent able to chase or take action as you see them blinking in place and do not know which direction they went for several seconds and then its too late.

It happened to me countless times that I didnt see him but he was dpsing me and only appeared after like 4 seconds but that is too much in ranked! I do not think they can fix this with this engine.

I doubt that's true. They obviously can't completely eliminate it but there are almost certainly ways to reduce it.

The engine limitations certainly play a huge role in the desynch issue. Though they may be able to mitigate it in other ways, it would likely require some significant rework in their network architecture. I don't know if that's feasible considering they migrated the servers to a data center that is very likely shared by other servers that have nothing to do with this game, not to mention the financial side of that proposition. Though I will say anecdotally that the desynch issues coincidently worsened when they migrated the servers. It could also be some additional layers of code they added we don't even know about, such as something security related for anti-hacking or to prevent the use of exploitive third-party software.

Bottom line is that I don't believe they have the resources to address this, and will likely be something that remains with the game until the day it sunsets.

Every time someone jumps, their position is updated server side.

They could simply use whatever code triggers that, and put it on a timer for every half second for every player in a wz.

Temporary fix sure, but would be an easy one.

Well.. I think that's just not possible atm.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/175363

This is a good read about what dsync is and why it can't be fixed....

The best fix for dsync is reducing the amount of hutball matches.

The studio addressing one thing =/= addressing another thing. AND... I do not recall much talk at all about bolster by those angry about the new gear.. so it is kind of a charade to use that as a premise here in my view.

Should they address this? Absolutely.

Should listening to logic based and objective feedback on Bolster as it is being evaluated on PTS ahead of going live = an automatic commitment to fixing this? Absolutely not.

Make your case objectively and factually, be polite about it, and request that they address this (and/or comment as to why they cannot). THAT would be following the actual process of how players encouraged them to respond on bolster plans and adjust them while still on PTS.

This literally can't be fixed without rebuilding the games engine.....and that is 100% not going to happen.

That’s not exactly true. The game has always had desync, but since 5.0 it has gotten worse with “every new release” of content or changes,

If it was just the engine, that wouldn’t be happening. The desync would be static the same as it was 3 years ago, not getting worse everytime they add something to the game.

There are only 3 reasons I can think of for it to be continuously getting worse each time.

1. Poor coding that is conflicting with older coding .

2. Ninja Changes to the performance settings in the game.

3. Backend changes to software or hardware platforms (the most probable of the 3)

4. All of the above.

The thing is, a bunch of us said to Bioware while they were developing the latest HB that if they didn’t fix the desync first, it would affect the new map the worst and be a waste of their time even making it.

But they went ahead and spent valuable resources and didnt fix the desync. Now the new map has the worst desync in the game, followed closely by Quesh Ball and the original HB. Ontop of that, since they added the new maps, the desync in the other pvp maps has also gotten worse.

I think we all realise they can’t fully eliminate all the desync, but they could try and wind it back to the levels we had 3-4 years ago.

Every time someone jumps, their position is updated server side.

 

They could simply use whatever code triggers that, and put it on a timer for every half second for every player in a wz.

 

Temporary fix sure, but would be an easy one.

They already accidently disabled stun breakers for carriers. I suppose another possible solution would be to disable the "don't jump" option for them. Make them hop like bunnies

There are only 3 reasons I can think of for it to be continuously getting worse each time.

1. Poor coding that is conflicting with older coding .

2. Ninja Changes to the performance settings in the game.

3. Backend changes to software or hardware platforms (the most probable of the 3)

4. All of the above.

5. The addition of WZ's with an emphasis on vertical movement i.e. Vanadin and Queshball.

6. The addition of fast movement abilities for nearly every AC.

7. The centralization of servers increasing lag for certain players.

8. Desync issues becoming well known and exploitable.

There are several easy map fixes the devs could implement such as making the off-node platforms in Civil War and Yavin bigger.

Desync wasn't a major problem until the "upgraded FPS" patch which made it much worse.

We all understand that desync exists in all online games but the desync in this game is actually game breaking rather than inconvenience and it's getting worse.

This is a good example of the current state of desync -

https://clips.twitch.tv/SplendidAmusedDovePRChase

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpotlessTardyButterKlappa

That simply didn't happen until relatively recent patches. Original huttball has ramps and ledges, sorcs have had force speed since launch and this stuff simply didn't happen back then so rather than saying "all games have desync" please try to understand how much worse this has gotten over time.

Well.. I think that's just not possible atm.

 

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/175363

 

This is a good read about what dsync is and why it can't be fixed....

This doesn't say why this issue can't be fixed. It describes that a bit of desync happens in all online games due to latency in sending position data between server and clients. Checking position every second would be too expensive, but since in swtor we can see other players move and change direction without issues, position data must be updated for every movement action, like this post says? Why then does it sometimes go wrong when players use high mobility abilities like roll or jump, especially upon changing vertical levels? They desync for multiple seconds. This can't be due to latency. They're not all getting 4s lag spikes. And they usually move (in their client) after leaping/rolling, yet the game state does not update even with that.

Iirc this long desync and rubberbanding used to not happen back in the early game. I remember that we started seeing it at some point, in huttball. We heard it was originally caused by a fix against hacking or something like that, so it's likely very necessary. But, as snave said, other online games don't have such huge issues, and they surely have anti-hacking systems too.

ESO has the hero engine with no de sync issues. So it would seem its a swtor exclusive issue.

ESO just used Hero Engine in prototyping phase.

But they went ahead and spent valuable resources and didnt fix the desync.

Building a new level (map etc) or texturing has nothing to do with server architecture, net- or engine coding. it's a totally different job.

you cant just use your design resources for engine work....you dont waste resources if a chisel is doing chisel work instead of being an excavator

Desync wasn't a major problem until the "upgraded FPS" patch which made it much worse.

 

We all understand that desync exists in all online games but the desync in this game is actually game breaking rather than inconvenience and it's getting worse.

 

This is a good example of the current state of desync -

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/SplendidAmusedDovePRChase

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpotlessTardyButterKlappa

 

That simply didn't happen until relatively recent patches. Original huttball has ramps and ledges, sorcs have had force speed since launch and this stuff simply didn't happen back then so rather than saying "all games have desync" please try to understand how much worse this has gotten over time.

Here, here 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Building a new level (map etc) or texturing has nothing to do with server architecture, net- or engine coding. it's a totally different job.

you cant just use your design resources for engine work....you dont waste resources if a chisel is doing chisel work instead of being an excavator

You missed the point completely

Making a HB map with multiple levels was always going to have the worst desync of any map.

It was a waste of resources making a HB map if they weren’t going to fix the desync.

What ever map they made would have had desync, but they could have made a map style that would minimise the desync if they weren’t going to fix it,

So yes, it was a waste of time and resources making a HB map because they didn’t fix the desync first.

Desync wasn't a major problem until the "upgraded FPS" patch which made it much worse.

 

We all understand that desync exists in all online games but the desync in this game is actually game breaking rather than inconvenience and it's getting worse.

 

This is a good example of the current state of desync -

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/SplendidAmusedDovePRChase

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpotlessTardyButterKlappa

 

That simply didn't happen until relatively recent patches. Original huttball has ramps and ledges, sorcs have had force speed since launch and this stuff simply didn't happen back then so rather than saying "all games have desync" please try to understand how much worse this has gotten over time.

^^ this is the type of post that can actually gain the attention of the studio and result in action on their part.

^^ this is the type of post that can actually gain the attention of the studio and result in action on their part.

Sure, now that it has your stamp of approval that's a step in the right direction, since you seemingly have a direct line to Musco's office.

Well last livestream they said they are working on trying to fix this desyncing issue. Now there will be another livestream tomorrow. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=956244. That's 18:00 CET.

We can try to ask there, about that, and the upcoming new gear still being bad for pvp.