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PvE


Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.11.2015 , 10:44 AM | #11
Unbalanced? GSF is pretty balanced, especially for a game where the devs have made no adjustments in so long. The meta is reasonably deep, and what ship and build is best changes decently depending on what scenario you are in, what map you are up against, and what players are allied/opposed.

We talk about balance changes to make the meta deeper, but there's no real way that's a systemic problem. Game balance is almost never the reason a game succeeds or dies anyway- it's just something people complain about.


One way I know the game is (reasonably) balanced is that I don't know what "imbalance" you are referring to.

> The actual imbalance where strike fighters are undertuned?
> Maybe you hate gunships?
> Scouts pretty OP, maybe that?
> Do you fly into mines? Bombers your bogey-man?
> Something something gear you don't understand?
> Ships being maybe too rock-paper-scissors on certain maps? Legit, but unlikely...
> Premades? Matchmaking? Cross server, lack of?
> Some strange thing about crewmembers?

There's no telling what you even think is unbalanced. Not that this is important: the point is that even if you can pick out the thing you don't like, plenty of people are busy upset about something else entirely, and both are certain that (a) GSF is dying and (b) $MY_PET_PEEVE is why.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

WedgeFan's Avatar


WedgeFan
02.11.2015 , 10:54 AM | #12
Coulnd't have typed it better.

GSF is actuall pretty balanced. No ship has an "I win" button.

Now if you are referring to it's steep learning curve....

The only thing I'd like to see them add is a few mobile targets to the tutorial. That might go a long way. The major hold up I see is that maybe no one on the staff can code a proper dogfighting AI.

I wonder what Larry Holland is doing right about now?
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Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
02.14.2015 , 09:55 PM | #13
I cannot wrap my head around why they're not adding PVE starfighter component. Even if simplified, it would be an invaluable addition to the game:

- serving as template for multiple 'set-piece/vehicle-section' moments during future story expansions for years to come (never never falling into overused category as space battles are core part of Star Wars experience)
- providing much needed tutorial and boot camp experience for PVP GSF
- finally replacing the abandoned (by the devs and the playerbase) old on-rails space content
- marrying the components and systems of the game together at last into a more coherent structure

Coding AI ships seems to be the core "but" here, but the rest of the groundwork has already been done, why stop now?

ALaggyGrunt's Avatar


ALaggyGrunt
02.15.2015 , 03:38 PM | #14
The AI would have to be a bit more complicated than ye olde classics. GSF has terrain the AI has to navigate through while trying to kill you.

AztecSoul's Avatar


AztecSoul
02.15.2015 , 11:22 PM | #15
If you look to a possible PvE component in GSF for the purpose of practice for the real PvP thing, then I'm afraid it wouldn't adequately prepare you to deal with real people and their particular playstyles. Throwing oneself into it and learning the hard way will pay off. Once you upgrade your ship(s) and really learn how to handle certain situations on the spot, you'd have gained valuable experience in the process, not realized otherwise.

WiseStranger's Avatar


WiseStranger
02.16.2015 , 01:32 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
I cannot wrap my head around why they're not adding PVE starfighter component. Even if simplified, it would be an invaluable addition to the game:

- serving as template for multiple 'set-piece/vehicle-section' moments during future story expansions for years to come (never never falling into overused category as space battles are core part of Star Wars experience)
- providing much needed tutorial and boot camp experience for PVP GSF
- finally replacing the abandoned (by the devs and the playerbase) old on-rails space content
- marrying the components and systems of the game together at last into a more coherent structure

Coding AI ships seems to be the core "but" here, but the rest of the groundwork has already been done, why stop now?
They are not adding it because it's too bloody difficult for them to program AI to behave like a real pilot in an unrestricted 3D environment within SWTOR framework. And no amount of PvE will prepare you for dealing with real people and the way they play. If you want to get better at PvP - you must do PvP and try to get better. Nobody is good from the first moment, everyone has to go through learning curve. PvE is not the answer you're looking for, however...

They MUST add a proper MANDATORY tutorial at lvl 1 before you can que for real matches that rewards a selection of 1-2 ships (same as current quest at lvl 10 that grants 5k fleet requisition which you can use to buy either Quarrel/Mangler + Rampart/Razzorwire at 2.5k each or any other 5k ship, but idiot-proof since you can't waste the chance to buy better ship(s) on upgrades of mostly worthless ships). This way aces still have a reason to suffer through tutorial and noobs get the basics of GSF where they can set up their controls and learn about ship classes, weapon classes (laser canons, missiles, railguns, mines and drones), tracking penalties, proper use of engine and other defensive abilities, power pool management, and objectives for each game mode.

There were discussions about what needs to be included in that tutorial, so I'm not going to go through the technical details again.

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
02.16.2015 , 05:17 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by WiseStranger View Post
And no amount of PvE will prepare you for dealing with real people and the way they play.
It will teach basics, just as PVE on ground DOES teach some basics to use in warzone PVP. There's nothing like that for Starfighter, just as u said, people get thrown into matches without having the slightest ideas how to use the ships

WiseStranger's Avatar


WiseStranger
02.16.2015 , 09:37 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
It will teach basics, just as PVE on ground DOES teach some basics to use in warzone PVP. There's nothing like that for Starfighter, just as u said, people get thrown into matches without having the slightest ideas how to use the ships
You don't need PvE for that. Just a good tutorial will do. All what those people need is a step by step set up of controls, sequence of capturing a satellite and explanation how different weapons work and how to use engine component.

After that you just need to throw them into the real games and let them feel it on their own skin.

A boss fight for ground PvE teaches you nothing in respect to PvP. Nobody decent will let you stand in place and do your rotation in PvP. There are no predictable, repetitive AI in PvP. That's why there are PvE guilds and there are PvP guilds and not all PvPers can do PvE and a lot of PvErs can't do PvP.

Muljo_Stpho's Avatar


Muljo_Stpho
02.17.2015 , 12:42 AM | #19
I never had any expectation for any sort of free roaming space PVE anyway. The most I would expect would be a revamp of the on-rails space mission format to allow for multiple alternate rails that we can switch onto by banking in the correct direction when some sort of prompt flashes. So we would have some degree of "control" as far as being able to decide (if the prompts have informative distinct icons that can be understood at a glance) whether we want to swing around an obstacle one direction vs another or if we want to move towards a specific target or make another pass at the current target or whatever else.

If they were really really feeling ambitious about it, maybe they could tweak the gearing for the class ship in such a way that the existing gear items remain relevant on some basic level but a new skill system is added to provide some way to upgrade beyond what the gear alone does for you, pushing the limits of what those parts are capable of. And brand new missions could be added in (at least one to rescale a few times throughout the earlier level tiers of missions, and then others could all be a new tier of higher level "heroic" missions) that push for us to have made those upgrades.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.17.2015 , 02:22 AM | #20
The problem with a tutorial is that it's a hard sell. It was rough to get them to put in the ghetto one that we have. The fact that it's a big deal for new players didn't really seem to stick, I guess?

It would be nice. And no, you wouldn't need pve to get a nice tutorial.

But...


If pve was in the cards at all (and it appears not to be, based on dev statements), it would be HUGE for the game. Ludicrously huge. But, given the costs involved in developing it, I doubt we'll see it. But definitely don't underestimate how awesome it would be if it was even vaguely decent, and how much of a draw to the game.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."