Hey BW, right now i can't use RC as tank when i'm not the leader of the pack^^

When i queue via GF and not get the lead, i always have to "beg" to get the leadership to perform a RC

You should alter it this way, that tanks can perform a RC always, even if they are not the groupleader.

W

PS. in a guild-run, i don't need a RC, because we're on vent - so no need for RC^^

and in a PUG, where a RC could come in handy, it won't work due to restrictions

Cool, excellent idea vote kicking a tank

Enjoy the waiting time of 1h+ for a new one

W

So you want your tank to just start fights whenever not caring if the group is ready or not?

And you will try to vote kick a tank who does try to make sure all are ready? God I hope I'm never grouped up with you.

Energy check on healer, and you know if you can pull next group. You are a tank, not a midnless dps, you should know how to make judgment call.

RC is more for operations so you are sure that all 8/16 guys are ready to start, not afk, so you don't wipe on a boss fight.

Giving everybody right to RC will be a pain... so would be RC before every single damn trash group in a flashpoint...

So you want your tank to just start fights whenever not caring if the group is ready or not?

And you will try to vote kick a tank who does try to make sure all are ready? God I hope I'm never grouped up with you.

I want my tank to be able to judge the group's readiness on his own, not by some annoying tool that slows the progress down. And yes, I will initiate a vote kick on a tank that keeps abusing this feature and making the run unenjoyable. But that's just crazy old me; thinking that learning to play is far better than being spoon-fed and "progressing" with the speed of a snail.

God I hope you group with me and actually learn something.

I'd rather wait for a capable one than be doomed to play with such a bad one.

Dear slafko, enlighten us with your unlimited wisdom^^

how do you recognize a "capable one"? you claim, a tank who's doing RCs is a bad tank?

Guess you're the "ogogogogogo!!!oneeleven - we don't break for anybody"-type from WoW!

I want my tank to be able to judge the group's readiness on his own, not by some annoying tool that slows the progress down. And yes, I will initiate a vote kick on a tank that keeps abusing this feature and making the run unenjoyable. But that's just crazy old me; thinking that learning to play is far better than being spoon-fed and "progressing" with the speed of a snail.

 

God I hope you group with me and actually learn something.

All I would learn from you is how to suck all the enjoyment out of a run by racing ahead and vote kicking any who don't meet my ideal of a perfect player.

Dear slafko, enlighten us with your unlimited wisdom^^

how do you recognize a "capable one"? you claim, a tank who's doing RCs is a bad tank?

Point is - RC is not needed in flashpoints. All it does in flashpoints is giving bad tanks (those who stand in front of each mob for 10 seconds before aggroing) another way (besides standing around doing nothing) to annoy the rest of the team.

Guess you're the "ogogogogogo!!!oneeleven - we don't break for anybody"-type from WoW!

I'm a good tank *because* I didn't come from WoW, my dear sir.

All I would learn from you is how to suck all the enjoyment out of a run by racing ahead and vote kicking any who don't meet my ideal of a perfect player.

TBH, you wouldn't learn anything. But not because I don't have anything to teach you.

i guess it all comes down to what mmos you have played in the past and learned etiquette or how to play from.

if you came from wow and or its clones whose stupid easy game play attracts 10 year olds that run away from the computer all the time i can understand the need.

if you came from the more challenging mmos which will frustrate children of all ages it really isnt needed much or at all as the game has very few if any of such players.

here are some times when you should use it in a fp in this game. ops is a different issue all together but some still can apply.

at the beginning to make sure everyone has zoned in and is there in the right gear and spec.

after someone stated they are going afk and came back (others will go afk as well and not say so)

before a boss fight

after any type of lengthy explanation of a fight. (those that know it will go afk)

for gods sake dont use it before every trash pull.

for gods sake dont use it before every trash pull.

This. And don't use it in flashpoints. It has no place there.

here are some times when you should use it in a fp in this game. ops is a different issue all together but some still can apply.

 

at the beginning to make sure everyone has zoned in and is there in the right gear and spec.

 

after someone stated they are going afk and came back (others will go afk as well and not say so)

 

before a boss fight

 

after any type of lengthy explanation of a fight. (those that know it will go afk)

 

for gods sake dont use it before every trash pull.

These are valid times to use it, OPs or FP.

I agree tho that with only a couple of nasty exceptions before a trash pull is unneeded.

Should rename it "afk check" because that's really what it's for: making sure everyone is present before starting a boss fight, especially when someone has gone afk.

It is safe to assume that people are ready between pulls unless someone has explicitly said they're afk, are out of resources and using their out-of-combat recuperative ability to regain them, or are lagging behind and still catching up to the group.

A tiny modicum of awareness is all that's needed to gauge readiness between trash pulls, and ready check isn't and shouldn't ever be necessary.

I would absolutely vote kick a tank who insisted on using ready check for every single pull, especially since I would make an attempt to politely explain first why it's not needed. If they ignore logic and insist on using it anyway, they're a bad tank and I'd rather be rid of them. Life is too short to suffer fools, and I'm simply not worried about the inability to find a replacement. It's more important to politely attempt to correct bad behavior, then more firmly punish it if a polite adjustment doesn't work, than to let someone get away with it.

If the argument goes that a tank is responsible for setting the pace, then a core part of the tank's skill set should be judging the readiness of their allies and engaging/waiting as appropriate. Doing do does not and should not require ready checks.

To reiterate, ready check was primarily implemented to catch afk'ers before FP/raid bosses so the group doesn't engage prematurely and eat unnecessary wipes. That's the only reason it was added, and the only time it should be used.

Why wouldn't the tank have lead? From a couple other MMOs, it just became habit for me to pass it to them as in those games, only party leaders could perform ready checks, mark targets, set loot rules, et cetera.

I suppose I can understand in a PuG, not really wanting to pass leadership due to looting concerns - but aside from that, why not? I certainly don't care if I'm the party leader or not.

Indeed, the ready check is there to check if the player is present.

Way better then saying everyone jump, if ready and then look over the ops group, if someone isn't jumping.

Also it serves the purpose of informing the group that you are going to pull really soon.

As for the OP, ask them to give you ops lieutenant, they can perform ready checks and I personally believe that a tank should always be one, so he can mark etc.

Please name a few of those nasty flashpoint exceptions and times when RC in needed in a flashpoint.

There are thousands of SW:ToR players of varying degrees of skill. Using the RC function isn't something that should be condemned, even in Flashpoints.

For many, this will be their first MMO, others may appreciate a RC.

And claiming to be a good tank because you haven't played a certain game is laughable. I've personally tanked since early EQ, and have done so on numerous MMOs. Never, have I see anyone get upset over a tank who uses ready checks and keeps a good pace.

On many boss encounters in other games, even in small scale dungeons, ready checks allow DPS and healers to make sure their cooldowns are up. Being able to have all of your tools at your disposal during a fight is invaluable to the success of your group.

You're also giving me that "douche-tank" vibe. Maybe if you let your head deflate you'd be able to see that not everyone agrees with you, nor should they in this case.

For once I ½ way agree with slafko, there really isn’t a reason to use ready check in any current HMFP. There shouldn’t be a reason to check if people are present in a HMFP since they are so short there is no reason beyond an emergency to ever go afk. If people are habitually going afk between every pull, then they should quit the group because they are totally being disrespectful to the entire team. If you are going afk, you should be announcing it in chat and then announcing when you are back with an apology to the group.

I don’t even think ready check is needed for regular group runs in operations… Where it may have some use is with PUG operations and guild runs when the group is not familiar with each other.

I always hand leadership over to the tank in HMFP, not because I think the tank should lead, but because I don’t want to lead.

There are thousands of SW:ToR players of varying degrees of skill. Using the RC function isn't something that should be condemned, even in Flashpoints.

 

For many, this will be their first MMO, others may appreciate a RC.

 

And claiming to be a good tank because you haven't played a certain game is laughable. I've personally tanked since early EQ, and have done so on numerous MMOs. Never, have I see anyone get upset over a tank who uses ready checks and keeps a good pace.

 

On many boss encounters in other games, even in small scale dungeons, ready checks allow DPS and healers to make sure their cooldowns are up. Being able to have all of your tools at your disposal during a fight is invaluable to the success of your group.

 

You're also giving me that "douche-tank" vibe. Maybe if you let your head deflate you'd be able to see that not everyone agrees with you, nor should they in this case.

Sallanna you raise a number of valid points in your post. You were logical and informative. So why did you end your post with something inflammatory? I feel it will ultimately undermine the good things about your post.

I'm just trying to minimize the hostility one post at a time

If all tanks get the ability to use ready check in flashpoints, as a healer I want the ability to freeze everyone in place unable to attack until I feel I'm ready for the next pull. What if the tank doesn't ready check? I'd hate to wipe because they didn't ask if I was prepared!

^this.

Ready check is a raid tool. Leave it that way.

Cool, excellent idea vote kicking a tank

 

Enjoy the waiting time of 1h+ for a new one

 

W

I've vote kicked plenty of tanks. Khem tanked better than they did. Don't consider yourself immune!

I've vote kicked plenty of tanks. Khem tanked better than they did. Don't consider yourself immune!

Confirming this. When healing, I often prefer my companion tank over many player tanks since they simply don't know how to tank.

Confirming this. When healing, I often prefer my companion tank over many player tanks since they simply don't know how to tank.

Skadge has campaign Supercommando, what's your tank got? I'm pretty sure I can keep him up against Mentor just as well.