Eric/Team

Thanks for reminding us of your ploicy re: datamined information, however I would just like to remind you and the rest of your team that this information is freely available elsewhere and are already discussing the information, so burying your heads in the sand for too long does nothing for the relations between us customers and yourself except further damage it (the relation is fractious as it is).

People would not go looking for datamined information so much if you were much more open with us, we all know that the PTS does not get used often so how can we possibly give any feedback if you won't let us discuss it until it is much too late and is almost live and has to go forward as it is rather than being able to change anything that people feel is wrong.

Thanks for listening

Eric/Team

 

Thanks for reminding us of your ploicy re: datamined information, however I would just like to remind you and the rest of your team that this information is freely available elsewhere and are already discussing the information, so burying your heads in the sand for too long does nothing for the relations between us customers and yourself except further damage it (the relation is fractious as it is).

 

People would not go looking for datamined information so much if you were much more open with us, we all know that the PTS does not get used often so how can we possibly give any feedback if you won't let us discuss it until it is much too late and is almost live and has to go forward as it is rather than being able to change anything that people feel is wrong.

 

 

Thanks for listening

Yeah...Musco said that he will deliver infromation earlier than dataminers do...

Created a thread to remind him xD

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9053228#post9053228

Eric/Team

 

Thanks for reminding us of your ploicy re: datamined information, however I would just like to remind you and the rest of your team that this information is freely available elsewhere and are already discussing the information, so burying your heads in the sand for too long does nothing for the relations between us customers and yourself except further damage it (the relation is fractious as it is).

While I agree that they need to communicate more transparently, and more frequently, I disagree with your statement above. They are not good at advance communications, much less accurate communications IMO, but that does not excuse the proliferation of data mined information.

Why? Because when a dataminer says something.. smart players know it's information that is likely to change and therefore not take it too seriously until the studio says something. Now.. as soon as the studio says something... it get's cast in concrete by some players and then when it ends up changing when it goes live, they try to crucify the studio for "lying"

People would not go looking for datamined information so much if you were much more open with us, we all know that the PTS does not get used often so how can we possibly give any feedback if you won't let us discuss it until it is much too late and is almost live and has to go forward as it is rather than being able to change anything that people feel is wrong.

The core problem here is the dataminers having access to patch content from PTS. I do not know why this is allowed to happen to be honest and I don't know why the studio does not come down on the data miners. ***

As to the contention that if the studio talked more, people would ignore datamined information.... get real. People will always scrouge for anything they can find, legal or illegal.

*** I'm not big on conspiracy theory efforts by gamers.... but of course it is possible this could be by design on the part of the studio... allowing dataminers to mine data and leak it into the market so the studio can observer reactions without a formal studio commitment on a change or new feature. /shrug

Overall, people on this forum know, or should know, that they cannot discuss datamined info here. Making excuses as to why it is somehow OK, does not help things IMO.

The silly truth is, we'd all prefer to hear it from Bioware themselves.

We're passionate about this game, we enjoy this game, we want to tell our friends about this game, we want others to share in our excitement...but...Bioware is silent...and that's where the problem lies.

Yeah...Musco said that he will deliver infromation earlier than dataminers do...

 

Created a thread to remind him xD

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9053228#post9053228

I guess at a certain point you have got to accept that things are said with no intention to have any follow through, but they sounded good at the time.

These types of threads are by far my most favorite, where is the information that You , Eric Musco and the Dev team promised us?

We understand your next cantina tour is next month but some little information would be greatly appreciated to help us prepare for it.

... so how can we possibly give any feedback if you won't let us discuss it until it is much too late and is almost live and has to go forward as it is rather than being able to change anything that people feel is wrong.

Feedback? Why do they need any feedback? Of course their designs are perfect! (Buy more Cartel Coins).

On a more serious note PTS builds are there to find things that are broken with the implementation. The designs are well past the drawing board stage. No amount of outrage is going to change course here except maybe a mass cancellation of subscriptions.

Unfortunately their policy of non-communications (in both directions) has kept their designers so out of touch with the players that depend on them doing their job correctly. No discouraging word is allowed to be uttered in the inner sanctum and that attitude has made the game what it is today.

Feedback? Why do they need any feedback? Of course their designs are perfect! (Buy more Cartel Coins).

 

On a more serious note PTS builds are there to find things that are broken with the implementation. The designs are well past the drawing board stage. No amount of outrage is going to change course here except maybe a mass cancellation of subscriptions.

 

Unfortunately their policy of non-communications (in both directions) has kept their designers so out of touch with the players that depend on them doing their job correctly. No discouraging word is allowed to be uttered in the inner sanctum and that attitude has made the game what it is today.

Sadly you are right. And, while I dont know if the stuff that I heard about from someone is true or not on changes, if it is, then I am glad I downloaded WOW and started playing it, while still playing swtor. If its true, then Nov 23, is when my sub runs out and I plan to let it. Some of you will say so long, and thats fine. Buf I am just 1 out of how many that will do this? I am not sure the game can handle to many more large decreases that will come if this all goes live.

The silly truth is, we'd all prefer to hear it from Bioware themselves.

 

We're passionate about this game, we enjoy this game, we want to tell our friends about this game, we want others to share in our excitement...but...Bioware is silent...and that's where the problem lies.

I'll add to this as well.

Other developers allow the discussion of datamined information (such as Bungie have for Destiny), as well as interact with the community and players discussing it reminding them that the information being discussed "is subject to change".

Why BioWare can't openly discuss potential changes and garner feedback is beyond me, they managed it very well with the proposed PvP changes in regards to node capping. They can do it, they choose not to.

We know the changes are coming, we also know they are subject to change. You would have thought by now BioWare Austin would have realised good games that are generally well received by their respective communities have gone through this type of feedback process by allowing the community to discuss it.

Otherwise, what is the point of these forums?

The silly truth is, we'd all prefer to hear it from Bioware themselves.

 

We're passionate about this game, we enjoy this game, we want to tell our friends about this game, we want others to share in our excitement...but...Bioware is silent...and that's where the problem lies.

Wut? What is this? I find myself agreeing with TUX twice in one week. What's going on? Have I entered the twilight zone?

Otherwise, what is the point of these forums?

Ha! Exactly.

I'll add to this as well.

 

Other developers allow the discussion of datamined information (such as Bungie have for Destiny), as well as interact with the community and players discussing it reminding them that the information being discussed "is subject to change".

 

Why BioWare can't openly discuss potential changes and garner feedback is beyond me, they managed it very well with the proposed PvP changes in regards to node capping. They can do it, they choose not to.

 

We know the changes are coming, we also know they are subject to change. You would have thought by now BioWare Austin would have realised good games that are generally well received by their respective communities have gone through this type of feedback process by allowing the community to discuss it.

 

Otherwise, what is the point of these forums?

It just reinforces my opinion that Bioware views it's customers as nothing but a nuisance.

We stand between them and what they want...our money. We are to be deceived and lied to at all costs, because we're not worthy of any amount of respect. This is THEIR game and we should be happy just to be allowed to pay for it. We're in no position to ask for, or demand anything, because they have no respect for us.

Otherwise, what is the point of these forums?

It just reinforces my opinion that Bioware views it's customers as nothing but a nuisance.

 

We stand between them and what they want...our money. We are to be deceived and lied to at all costs, because we're not worthy of any amount of respect. This is THEIR game and we should be happy just to be allowed to pay for it. We're in no position to ask for, or demand anything, because they have no respect for us.

Omg I think you described almost every dev post I have ever read. It's too bad all this truth will be glossed over by the white knights of the forums.

Omg I think you described almost every dev post I have ever read. It's too bad all this truth will be glossed over by the white knights of the forums.

The only dev posting in the near past was Ben Irving's "open letter" which basically was "we're great, 4.0 was the greatest expansion, we're doing non-chapter content - can't say anything but you have to trust us and keep paying"

The only dev posting in the near past was Ben Irving's "open letter" which basically was "we're great, 4.0 was the greatest expansion, we're doing non-chapter content - can't say anything but you have to trust us and keep paying"

Well my post was pretty much referencing all 3 of the dev post...

While I agree that they need to communicate more transparently, and more frequently, I disagree with your statement above. They are not good at advance communications, much less accurate communications IMO, but that does not excuse the proliferation of data mined information.

 

Why? Because when a dataminer says something.. smart players know it's information that is likely to change and therefore not take it too seriously until the studio says something. Now.. as soon as the studio says something... it get's cast in concrete by some players and then when it ends up changing when it goes live, they try to crucify the studio for "lying"

 

 

 

The core problem here is the dataminers having access to patch content from PTS. I do not know why this is allowed to happen to be honest and I don't know why the studio does not come down on the data miners. ***

 

As to the contention that if the studio talked more, people would ignore datamined information.... get real. People will always scrouge for anything they can find, legal or illegal.

 

*** I'm not big on conspiracy theory efforts by gamers.... but of course it is possible this could be by design on the part of the studio... allowing dataminers to mine data and leak it into the market so the studio can observer reactions without a formal studio commitment on a change or new feature. /shrug

 

Overall, people on this forum know, or should know, that they cannot discuss datamined info here. Making excuses as to why it is somehow OK, does not help things IMO.

Agreed and whats wrong with them being cautious and having everything confirmed of what will or will not be in the next expansion.

This is THEIR game and we should be happy just to be allowed to pay for it. We're in no position to ask for, or demand anything, because they have no respect for us.

Considering that some of the feedback given has been taken onboard previously, that's a touch harsh

I totally accept that this is their game, and their passion, and that they have a vision for the game. Totally understand. At which point does this game become more than just their vision though? When they release it to the wilds of the internet? When subtle little things get altered on feedback of their customers (who can be equally, if not more passionate)?

The downside to this being their game? They view it with rose tinted spectacles far too often, and don't try to improve on where they fail to meet expectations. Part of those expectations include communicating clearly and effectively with the community, which they fail on frequently. Almost every opportunity to improve community relationships is missed or squandered.

Bread and circuses.

Considering we're their bread and butter.....

...when a dataminer says something.. smart players know it's information that is likely to change and therefore not take it too seriously until the studio says something...

Actually, a smart player can form expectation based on previous experience, therefore he can take it seriously, as these datamined informations are usually 90+% correct.

Sadly you are right. And, while I dont know if the stuff that I heard about from someone is true or not on changes, if it is, then I am glad I downloaded WOW and started playing it, while still playing swtor. If its true, then Nov 23, is when my sub runs out and I plan to let it. Some of you will say so long, and thats fine. Buf I am just 1 out of how many that will do this? I am not sure the game can handle to many more large decreases that will come if this all goes live.

I already know from completing two different zones, one two different characters that WoW:Legion has several times more content and replayability than KOTFE had. Moreover, Blizz have learned from their past errors, have said sorry, and are working towards fixing things. I walked away from WoW a week after WoD launched because it was, IMO, just that bad. I don't see the money I have already spent as "wasted" if I walk away from a game that I no longer enjoy.

But I do see money I continue to spend on a product that is not meeting minimal expectations as wasted; and based on what I have just seen on datamined info I am 100% certain my sub for SWtoR will not be allowed to renew. Bioware needs to up it's game, by about 300%, if it has any hope of keeping my sub. And to be able to do that it needs to show it is not only listening to us, but also cares about what we are saying - and so far there is absolutely zero evidence to support that.

I love this game, but I'd rather walk away when my current sub ends and retain a few pleasant memories than suffer another season of "Nights in the Garbage Compacter" mediocrity; in fact who am I kidding, it's not even good enough to be mediocre.

Oh, and BTW, playing through the WoW Class story arcs for the Artifact Weapons you find that each class has three unique storylines - one for each talent spec - and that the story telling therein is better than anything Bioware managed in KotFE.

When Blizzard story-telling tops that offered by Bioware you know the mighty have fallen, possibly beyond redemption.

All The Best

The only dev posting in the near past was Ben Irving's "open letter" which basically was "we're great, 4.0 was the greatest expansion, we're doing non-chapter content - can't say anything but you have to trust us and keep paying"

You should see what I got back from him when I tried to file arbitration.

I always get a chuckle when I see them post their CS address. I think I've seen one mention that they actually got back to someone over an issue.

When Blizzard story-telling tops that offered by Bioware you know the mighty have fallen, possibly beyond redemption.

It's only my opinion, but Blizzard story-telling has always topped anything offered by BioWare. I'm not saying BioWare story-telling is bad, however it doesn't excel as well as Blizzard's consistently has.

Hey BioWare,

What is there to datamine? KotET is gonna follow the same model as KotFE right? You know... the monthly layout. New chapter (interactive informercial) and Cartel Pack introduced through a patch that lasts for the month. The full patch contains the chapter, the pack, conquest data, rakghoul/gree (if applicable) and bounty week data. If something interupts the 4 week schedule then conquest will be broken for week 5. Two days later we have a live stream where the developers pat themselves on the back and ignore the questions being asked. Then we get three and a half more weeks of silence. That is also with dropping the expansion right at the holidays so all the expansion bugs will not be addressed for at least two months because people are on vacation. Also instead of giving us a "quality" product it will be a "I met the deadline date" product that is has bugs that might be fixed with the next patch in 4 weeks.