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Some dark side options don't seem "bad" or "evil".

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Some dark side options don't seem "bad" or "evil".

RVallant's Avatar


RVallant
07.12.2014 , 07:06 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by wiseassguy View Post
When it comes to playing trooper i usually am DS, mostly cause i choose to follow orders and further the republics war efforts. Most of these choices are DS, even if they are deemed the right thing to do.
Yeah that one is stupid in my view. I ran with a Trooper ages back and getting DS points for maintaining confidentiality is... whack.

If anything you should be getting DS points for breaching that confidentiality. In other situations, I think there was one about infected people trapped behind a door and they order you to gas them... Iirc saving them is the light-option and following orders is the dark option, I can get behind that in some ways but if I remember rightly, you don't have anything to go off but their word that they're unharmed/uninfected whatever it was and the safest option was to follow orders... Seems daft getting penalised for it.

Then again, I don't see why a Trooper would need to be worried about LS/DS points, maybe that's the entire point of the system for them, to show they're not Jedi, they're not bound by the code of light/dark, they do the dirty work, end of?

fovzwk's Avatar


fovzwk
07.14.2014 , 04:33 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by RVallant View Post
Yeah that one is stupid in my view. I ran with a Trooper ages back and getting DS points for maintaining confidentiality is... whack.

If anything you should be getting DS points for breaching that confidentiality. In other situations, I think there was one about infected people trapped behind a door and they order you to gas them... Iirc saving them is the light-option and following orders is the dark option, I can get behind that in some ways but if I remember rightly, you don't have anything to go off but their word that they're unharmed/uninfected whatever it was and the safest option was to follow orders... Seems daft getting penalised for it.

Then again, I don't see why a Trooper would need to be worried about LS/DS points, maybe that's the entire point of the system for them, to show they're not Jedi, they're not bound by the code of light/dark, they do the dirty work, end of?
Well it is usally more aceppted in most societies to put possibly infected/contaminated people under some sort of quarantine insted of just killing them without even confirming if they are actually sick in the first place. Gassing them does seem like a rather heartless/dark choice to me.
Just because something is the safest option doesn't always mean that it is a "good" or "light" one.

In conclusion the dark choices in SWTOR usually are "the end justifies the means" scenarios, where you often sacrifice others to furhter your factions or your own goals (for example the mentioned gassing trapped people in order to minimize the risk of an infection spreading and harming more of your people), while the light options basically revolve around (sometimes naive) idealistic actions and self-sacrifice.
This system pretty much stays consisten during the entire game.

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
07.15.2014 , 07:54 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by MishraArtificer View Post
Actually, I just went through that quest again, and...
Spoiler
That doesn't justify returning your own military's property to a thief. There is no justification for giving a thief medicine over its rightful owner. It is absurd to suggest we should believe the word of the thief over a fellow soldier.

They should reverse the alignment choices or at a minimum they should remove all alignment choices from that quest.
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fovzwk's Avatar


fovzwk
07.16.2014 , 05:01 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
That doesn't justify returning your own military's property to a thief. There is no justification for giving a thief medicine over its rightful owner. It is absurd to suggest we should believe the word of the thief over a fellow soldier.

They should reverse the alignment choices or at a minimum they should remove all alignment choices from that quest.
Except the military on Ord Mantell is as corrupt as it gets. The high ranking officiers blackmail their subordinates, it is mentioned multiple time that without a lot of bribe money the soldiers don't do anything, people get beaten up regularely for minor reasons and lets not forget that some of those military people get a thrill out of seeing refugees blow up in a minefield. Not to metinon that some of them are even traitors (Havoc squad).
So I ask you: Why should we believe any word out of the mouth of said fellow soldier? He is probably as unreliable as the thief.

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
07.16.2014 , 12:49 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by fovzwk View Post
Except the military on Ord Mantell is as corrupt as it gets. The high ranking officiers blackmail their subordinates, it is mentioned multiple time that without a lot of bribe money the soldiers don't do anything, people get beaten up regularely for minor reasons and lets not forget that some of those military people get a thrill out of seeing refugees blow up in a minefield. Not to metinon that some of them are even traitors (Havoc squad).
So I ask you: Why should we believe any word out of the mouth of said fellow soldier? He is probably as unreliable as the thief.
Because it is the military's medicine. That's in an undeniable fact. The thief stole it. That too is undeniable. The thief has already shown she is to be distrusted. As for the military being corrupt, not all of them are. Jorgan wasn't. That private who asked for your help with his lieutenant wasn't. The officer who you reported that sick game with refugees wasn't. There is no reason NOT to believe your own people.

But then, that's wholly irrelevant. The medicine does not belong to the thief. She has no right to it. The refugees have no right to it. It sucks that they need medicine, but it's not right for you to steal on their behalf. That the game makes this the "light-side" option is awful.
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fovzwk's Avatar


fovzwk
07.17.2014 , 08:46 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
Because it is the military's medicine. That's in an undeniable fact. The thief stole it. That too is undeniable. The thief has already shown she is to be distrusted. As for the military being corrupt, not all of them are. Jorgan wasn't. That private who asked for your help with his lieutenant wasn't. The officer who you reported that sick game with refugees wasn't. There is no reason NOT to believe your own people.

But then, that's wholly irrelevant. The medicine does not belong to the thief. She has no right to it. The refugees have no right to it. It sucks that they need medicine, but it's not right for you to steal on their behalf. That the game makes this the "light-side" option is awful.
The ethics officier didn't seem very trustworthy to me. You report to him that his subordinates blow up refugees for fun and basically all he does is say: "What they haven't stopped doing that after I already told them to stop it? Okay. I'll tell them to stop again." Seriously those guys should have been relieved of duty the first time if you ask me. And there IS reaon not believe your own people right away if they are continually involed in abhorrent things.

Also are you saying that stealing is always bad and a thief can never be in the right? Because if you do, then its a opinion that I do not share. Sometimes it can be justified. The example we are discussing now might not be the best and I agree that you shouldn't get any alingment points at all for returning it to the military but neither do I think it is inheritly wrong to award lightside points to you if you help the refugees.

Spetulhu's Avatar


Spetulhu
07.17.2014 , 09:56 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by fovzwk View Post
The ethics officier didn't seem very trustworthy to me. You report to him that his subordinates blow up refugees for fun and basically all he does is say: "What they haven't stopped doing that after I already told them to stop it? Okay. I'll tell them to stop again."
Oh, that's also a good point... You have soldiers basically murdering civilians by making them run a minefield for supplies, and all the ethics officer does is tell them to stop? There should have been tribunals investigating who was involved, then handing out severe punishments. But the local military must be heavily corrupt - while covering up a few of these crimes by blaming them on the separatists probably works you'd need very highly ranked people to keep the lid on it for so long and so many crimes.

Jedi_riches's Avatar


Jedi_riches
07.18.2014 , 09:59 AM | #48
I think that they should remove the DS option on that so that following orders and returning the medicine to the fort is considered neutral (well at least for troopers, it would not make as much sense as a smuggler although he would not be paid for giving it to the thief), I guess that you can still have LS points for giving it to the refugees.

iDraxter's Avatar


iDraxter
07.21.2014 , 11:17 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Jandi View Post
For the 100th time...

LS/DS isn't a morality scale. It's about altruism vs greed, self-sacrifice vs selfishness. a quick, clean death vs cruelty.

If however someone doesn't understand the difference then that's for them to figure out.
So what about Black Talon with the General? DS for a quick, clean death and LS for cruelty, painfull death in the near future, I`m 100% sure the Empire does not keep traitors alive in cells, they are executed. Just because his life gets prolonged by a bit makes it LS ignoring the pain, torture, humiliation and finally death that the General will have to go through?

ZahirS's Avatar


ZahirS
07.27.2014 , 12:00 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by iDraxter View Post
So what about Black Talon with the General? DS for a quick, clean death and LS for cruelty, painfull death in the near future, I`m 100% sure the Empire does not keep traitors alive in cells, they are executed. Just because his life gets prolonged by a bit makes it LS ignoring the pain, torture, humiliation and finally death that the General will have to go through?
Sometimes living is better than been dead...

Definetly the choices are thinking individuals here, clean death is only good in very few cases while sparing life should be the norm for a jedi.