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So my raid leader said....

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
So my raid leader said....

Lowfrequenzy's Avatar


Lowfrequenzy
04.22.2014 , 09:41 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpekulatius View Post
All are viable but the lower parsing spec needs quite some setup (bad for target switching) wheras the higher parsing spec doesn't need much setup.

At the moment I can't see a reason to play lethality (as an operative that is (scoundrel to be precice)).
But I like my dots... No really, I do fine in any content I've tried so far with dirty fighting (up to HM DF/DP).
Motetta across the galaxies
Vanjervalis Chain - T3-M4 - ToFN - TRE - Ebon Hawk

shleefin's Avatar


shleefin
04.22.2014 , 10:46 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I had overlooked the issue with PPA until it was pointed out to me not too long ago. Now that I have a better grasp of what is happening, let me give it a try explaining it.

2 x Power Shot will proc PPA almost 100% of the time. (I say "almost" because in very very rare occasions I've had to use a third PS to proc it) Unload + Power Shot will proc PPA 100% of the time -- I've never not seen a proc with these two abilities back to back.

The tooltip states that each PS has a 45% to proc, and Unload has a 75% chance. However, the proc chance appears to be calculated "additively" As in 45% + 45% = 90%. And 75% + 45% = 120% chance.

However, this is not actually how RNG works.

It is possible the tooltips are wrong, but since Pyro is consistently at the top (or juuuuust behind the top) of PvE dps in the game, it is a safe bet that it isn't working as intended.
Hmm, well hopefully they never fix this "glitch". I happen to like my pyro merc as is Has Bioware ever commented on this? Bioware has been on a mission recently to remove RNG dependence from most of the dps trees, so I doubt they would fix this without removing the RNG some other way.

Memo-'s Avatar


Memo-
04.22.2014 , 05:20 PM | #23
The mentioned glitch isn't about the PPA proc - although it should be fixed, if possible with a stack-proc-mechanic or just a change in the tooltip. :P

The glitch under discussion is the fact that when Rail Shot hits the enemy, it refreshes the CGC-dot twice if the offhand hits as well. Rapid Shots can also proc it twice, if the offhand hits AND RNG is on your side. And since it always does damage on it's initial hit instead of after 1 sec, Mercenaries get a considerable advantage over their Commando brethren. (We're talking 100-200 dps here)
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
04.22.2014 , 07:43 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Memo- View Post
Mercenaries get a considerable advantage over their Commando brethren. (We're talking 100-200 dps here)
"Considerable advantage?" Go look at the Dread Palace 8-man dps leaderboard and look at the fights that have both a Commando Assault and a Mercenary Pryo on it.

3329 vs 3317
3714 vs 3647
2899 vs 2799

Only one fight (Calphayus) has a decent difference 2548 vs 2325.

Sure, in a perfect dummy parse, a Merc is going to break 4000, with the Commando topping out at about 3900. But in an actual ops fight? It's not a big deal.

Kawabonga's Avatar


Kawabonga
04.23.2014 , 01:36 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
"Considerable advantage?" Go look at the Dread Palace 8-man dps leaderboard and look at the fights that have both a Commando Assault and a Mercenary Pryo on it.

3329 vs 3317
3714 vs 3647
2899 vs 2799

Only one fight (Calphayus) has a decent difference 2548 vs 2325.

Sure, in a perfect dummy parse, a Merc is going to break 4000, with the Commando topping out at about 3900. But in an actual ops fight? It's not a big deal.
A boss fight can be influenced by good or bad RNG, player skill outside of "click the buttons", AoE damage, and can't be replicated reliably. Yes the merc and mando parses are similar, but there are much less parses around. Enough less to blame it on RNG. If a merc parses 300 dps more than a commando on a dummy, surely he has the same potential during boss fights. The fact that a parse hasn't shown up to prove it does nothing to disprove this, because there's so little boss fight parses and so many dummy parses.

Memo-'s Avatar


Memo-
04.24.2014 , 12:16 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Sure, in a perfect dummy parse, a Merc is going to break 4000
4000? That's cute. http://www.torparse.com/a/607798/tim...675/0/Overview :P

No but really, what Kawabonga said.

//To contrast, best AS-Commando dummy parse on Torparse: http://www.torparse.com/a/565451/1
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
04.24.2014 , 08:31 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Memo- View Post
4000? That's cute. http://www.torparse.com/a/607798/tim...675/0/Overview :P

No but really, what Kawabonga said.

//To contrast, best AS-Commando dummy parse on Torparse: http://www.torparse.com/a/565451/1
Odawgg is arguably the best Pyro Merc in the entire game. I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat that in a perfect Commando parse if he spent enough time at it.

But even if he couldn't. Do you really think this adds up to a "considerable advantage"? Like, your progression raid group on the Pub side would lose a world-first NM run to an Imp group because they have a Merc and you run a Commando?

I'm not trying to say that the disparity doesn't exist. It's just that you're a making big a deal out of something that is actually minor, in the grand scheme of dps disparity between specs.

Also, it was NOT in fact, the "glitch" that was being discussed earlier in this thread, which was the PPA procs.

Memo-'s Avatar


Memo-
04.24.2014 , 08:43 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Odawgg is arguably the best Pyro Merc in the entire game. I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat that in a perfect Commando parse if he spent enough time at it.

But even if he couldn't. Do you really think this adds up to a "considerable advantage"? Like, your progression raid group on the Pub side would lose a world-first NM run to an Imp group because they have a Merc and you run a Commando?

I'm not trying to say that the disparity doesn't exist. It's just that you're a making big a deal out of something that is actually minor, in the grand scheme of dps disparity between specs.

Also, it was NOT in fact, the "glitch" that was being discussed earlier in this thread, which was the PPA procs.
Yes, it wasn't the glitch that was discussed, saying it was was a bit too quick. But I imagine the one who originally brought up bugged Pyromercs would mean this, because without the bug, their DPS isn't "too high", since for example Dotsmashers reach similar numbers.

And yes, the difference isn't THAT great. And absolutely not big enough to speak raid viability. But still a thing that should be fixed, whatever direction the fix goes to. Same goes for all specs that have differing functions depending on faction, like the hybrid-Slinger/sniper that, if I remember correctly, was better on the republic counterpart because Shock Charge was buffed by certain Dirty Fighting -talents while Interrogation Probe was not. Slingers also benefit more from Illegal Mods than Snipers do from Target Acquired because of the higher accuracy provided boosting offhand hits.

Theoretical DPS differences between dual wielding classes vs. their solo wielder counterparts don't matter as much I think as long as the averages dont favour one or the other. This will, of course, always lead to the fact that the dual wielders have a higher potential DPS, which is regrettable.
Sakků | Faris | Maliris | Sopraano<Reilukerho>Bas'so | Všli | Rai'chu | Jauhe
Delarah | Stilva | Luccia | Ethawn<Lice-Ridden Banthas>Tenori | Baritoni | Weimar | Altto
   The Lihavuori LegacyTomb of Freedon Nadd

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
04.24.2014 , 10:21 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Memo- View Post
But still a thing that should be fixed, whatever direction the fix goes to. Same goes for all specs that have differing functions depending on faction.
Definitely agreed.