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Can anyone name a Minigame like GSF that has done well ?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Can anyone name a Minigame like GSF that has done well ?

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
04.21.2014 , 02:27 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by mattycutts View Post
The best pilots don't target the noobs, I myself always seek there toughest members where possible.
Depends what you mean by 'best'. I personally love my 80~85% win rate (need more than 100 games to actually have this be a worthwhile statistic), and so if I see that there are multiple 'good' pilots, I'd typically either a) focus them myself and have my teammates farm the newbs, or b) have my teammate focus the main adversaries and farm the newbs myself. More often than not, I'm getting my butt focused for the entire match by multiple enemies. This means that I'm already distracting the good pilots (and evading as much as I can for as long as possible), and if I'm going to be sacrificing my KD to ensure a victory, you better believe I'm telling my teammates to "go for their bads". This has been a common theme that I've personally seen - people focusing on one player SOOOOOOOO much longer than they should, that the opposition isn't paying attention to the score and my team will be gaining numbers while they're remaining the same / only getting one (I've also been on the opposite end where my teammates are the ones overexerting themselves).

Good players need to be shut down, true enough, but you need to find the balance between straight out shutting down the amazing players and actually winning your match. Winning = most important in my books.
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Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
04.21.2014 , 03:05 PM | #22
I'm getting really tired of this whole "aces shouldn't target newbies" thing. Of course they're supposed to target newbies! You shouldn't aim to humiliate them, but one generally goes out there with the intent of winning a game - and usually you win games by either killing the people you can kill the quickest, or denying the other team numbers on the objective. Do that by slaughtering the weakest links in the other team, hopefully faster than the other teams' aces are doing to your team's weakest players.

Quote: Originally Posted by SammyGStatus View Post
Depends what you mean by 'best'. I personally love my 80~85% win rate (need more than 100 games to actually have this be a worthwhile statistic), and so if I see that there are multiple 'good' pilots, I'd typically either a) focus them myself and have my teammates farm the newbs, or b) have my teammate focus the main adversaries and farm the newbs myself. More often than not, I'm getting my butt focused for the entire match by multiple enemies. This means that I'm already distracting the good pilots (and evading as much as I can for as long as possible), and if I'm going to be sacrificing my KD to ensure a victory, you better believe I'm telling my teammates to "go for their bads". This has been a common theme that I've personally seen - people focusing on one player SOOOOOOOO much longer than they should, that the opposition isn't paying attention to the score and my team will be gaining numbers while they're remaining the same / only getting one (I've also been on the opposite end where my teammates are the ones overexerting themselves).

Good players need to be shut down, true enough, but you need to find the balance between straight out shutting down the amazing players and actually winning your match. Winning = most important in my books.
This.

You want to focus another ace? Sure. Can be fun, and depending on the ace, that can be a game winning strategy. But if your team can't take advantage of you taking yourself out of the general melee, then you might have cost your team the win you would've had by just eliminating the enemy's weaker pilots efficiently. Just don't complain if you lose, and don't be surprised your teammates might be annoyed to know that you could've helped to win the match, but you wanted to 1v1 someone across the map.

Also, if you wanted to focus a dangerous player, bet that half your team is thinking the same thing. It turns the named aces on a server into giant targets. I get focused every time I go out there with people who know what I can do. If I'm going to spend half the match dodging 3-4 rather than fighting, I will take every advantage I can. I'll drag people around rocks endlessly, through respawning allies, into friendly minefields, call for peels, and relentlessly snare and debuff everyone I can. And, when I do finally get a chance to contribute to the scoreboard by annihilating a red dot that strays into targeting range, I will take it, and I won't feel bad about it maybe being a newbie. You shouldn't either.
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General_Brass's Avatar


General_Brass
04.21.2014 , 03:54 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Fractalsponge View Post
I'm getting really tired of this whole "aces shouldn't target newbies" thing. Of course they're supposed to target newbies! You shouldn't aim to humiliate them, but one generally goes out there with the intent of winning a game - and usually you win games by either killing the people you can kill the quickest, or denying the other team numbers on the objective. Do that by slaughtering the weakest links in the other team, hopefully faster than the other teams' aces are doing to your team's weakest players.
This highlights another problem with the game. It makes it far too easy for vet players to grief noobs. The enemy call signs should not be visible. It's bad enough that you can hack their targeting systems to see who they are targeting, but really you have exchanged IFF codes with them as well ?

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
04.21.2014 , 04:00 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by General_Brass View Post
This highlights another problem with the game. It makes it far too easy for vet players to grief noobs. The enemy call signs should not be visible. It's bad enough that you can hack their targeting systems to see who they are targeting, but really you have exchanged IFF codes with them as well ?
I would LOVE it if this were true. I wouldn't immediately draw 3 people on me every time I go out. Seriously, it'd be like when dampening worked again. Where do I sign the petition?

The necessary of drawback of that would be that you'd lose the community aspect, since you wouldn't be able to connect people to what you see in game.

That said, I don't think most people can say the person they're targeting is a noob or not before running them down and shooting at them. Veterans will recognize each other, but just because it's a name you don't know under your reticule doesn't mean they're new, or bad, or an easy kill. You shoot at them because they're there. Aces will die slower, but newbies will not, and get farmed whenever they are in range.
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
04.21.2014 , 04:50 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by General_Brass View Post
This highlights another problem with the game. It makes it far too easy for vet players to grief noobs. The enemy call signs should not be visible. It's bad enough that you can hack their targeting systems to see who they are targeting, but really you have exchanged IFF codes with them as well ?
You don't have to "hack" their targeting system, it always shows your targets target (once the information loads)

Do you really think that removing call signs would help new players? I personally would love it, people hunt me from the beginning of the match to the end, if left alone I could be truly dangerous. Dropping in on unsuspecting targets would be easy, and people would wait too long too react since they dont know its me back there.

A name is not the only giveaway for a new player, you only learn if they or good or not after the first encounter (then you remember the name). In that same vein of thought the way someone flies is a better indicator if they are new or not, I can pick them out from pretty far away now (name or no name)

This would just end up hurting new players, since they could never know who exactly was the threat and who wasn't. But sure go ahead with that and see how it works out, I would have a very good time (which is not your intention I think)

Oh and as far as vets preying on noobs, I think any good pilot will tell you that you kill from the top down. take out the biggest threat, then the next, then the next..... If you focus on new pilots your score may climb fast but you leave your *** hanging in the wind to get chewed on by good pilots.

The confusing thing is that if you make yourself a threat to an ace they will kill you, so even if you manage to do well as a new player, all they are going to do is pay more attention to you (which can be a bad thing). Its a learning experience though, and nothing can be traded in place of that experience. Getting good involves dying a lot (at least in the beginning)
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Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
04.21.2014 , 05:07 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by DamascusAdontise View Post
Oh and as far as vets preying on noobs, I think any good pilot will tell you that you kill from the top down. take out the biggest threat, then the next, then the next..... If you focus on new pilots your score may climb fast but you leave your *** hanging in the wind to get chewed on by good pilots.
No, you kill in the way that will get your team over the finish line first. Sometimes you focus aces, and let your team deal with the noobs.

I'm wagering that most of the time, you're better off to your team efficiently removing as many of the other teams weaker players as you can, as quickly as possible. Compare kill order in PVE - distract the "boss" while you eliminate the easy kills so they don't swarm you with attrition, and then focus the "boss." Their aces may get you as you're doing this, but if you can flip a 5:1 K/D off their non-aces before they can stop you, your team comes out ahead. Unkind perhaps, but math is amoral.

Please note that I'm not saying people should take notes on who the 2-shippers are at load screen and kill them out of spawn, but if you specifically go after named aces, you might not be using your time the most efficiently. The top pilots can kite even other top pilots for a LONG time, sometimes.
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General_Brass's Avatar


General_Brass
04.21.2014 , 05:11 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by DamascusAdontise View Post
You don't have to "hack" their targeting system, it always shows your targets target (once the information loads)

Do you really think that removing call signs would help new players? I personally would love it, people hunt me from the beginning of the match to the end, if left alone I could be truly dangerous. Dropping in on unsuspecting targets would be easy, and people would wait too long too react since they dont know its me back there.

A name is not the only giveaway for a new player, you only learn if they or good or not after the first encounter (then you remember the name). In that same vein of thought the way someone flies is a better indicator if they are new or not, I can pick them out from pretty far away now (name or no name)

This would just end up hurting new players, since they could never know who exactly was the threat and who wasn't. But sure go ahead with that and see how it works out, I would have a very good time (which is not your intention I think)

Oh and as far as vets preying on noobs, I think any good pilot will tell you that you kill from the top down. take out the biggest threat, then the next, then the next..... If you focus on new pilots your score may climb fast but you leave your *** hanging in the wind to get chewed on by good pilots.

The confusing thing is that if you make yourself a threat to an ace they will kill you, so even if you manage to do well as a new player, all they are going to do is pay more attention to you (which can be a bad thing). Its a learning experience though, and nothing can be traded in place of that experience. Getting good involves dying a lot (at least in the beginning)
I'd think it would be good for most people not just new players.

1. It would flatten out the communication advantage people on voip have over those just using text.
2. It would help new players avoid the trap of revenge hunting, hard to do when you don't know who killed you.
3. While you can only identify who is new and who isn't by how they fly you would have to make that determination every time you target someone. This makes it harder to use cheap tricks on people right from the get go.

Admittedly if we ever did get a dedicated server or cross server queues much of this would be unneeded.

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
04.21.2014 , 05:56 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Fractalsponge View Post
No, you kill in the way that will get your team over the finish line first. Sometimes you focus aces, and let your team deal with the noobs.

I'm wagering that most of the time, you're better off to your team efficiently removing as many of the other teams weaker players as you can, as quickly as possible. Compare kill order in PVE - distract the "boss" while you eliminate the easy kills so they don't swarm you with attrition, and then focus the "boss." Their aces may get you as you're doing this, but if you can flip a 5:1 K/D off their non-aces before they can stop you, your team comes out ahead. Unkind perhaps, but math is amoral.

Please note that I'm not saying people should take notes on who the 2-shippers are at load screen and kill them out of spawn, but if you specifically go after named aces, you might not be using your time the most efficiently. The top pilots can kite even other top pilots for a LONG time, sometimes.
This is true, a good pilot takes advantage of any and all weaknesses. But I do honestly deal with the biggest threat first, if however there is little to no threat I kill anyone/everyone as fast as I can starting at the closest person and working my way out.

My "Must Kill First List" includes gunships, approaching bombers, and any scout engaging a teammate. Strikes are usually my last concern (and generally take the most time to kill save bombers) if none of these threats exists I go for whatever is closest / easiest.

Newer pilots cant capitalize off missile lock times or abilities like a veteran can, so you can generally kite several newer pilots while focusing on a veteran. There are times when you have to deal with a weak link first, but for me at least far more often its going after a veteran while the rest of the team deals with the others.
Ahazi Server Refugee (Beta - Shutdown) RIP TIE & Twin Ion
[Obsidian Squadron] - Pincer - Ocula Pilot - The Bastion
New to GSF? Look Here!. // And Here!

zaskar's Avatar


zaskar
04.21.2014 , 09:41 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by General_Brass View Post
I didn't realize there was a Republic Journal of Operations Research, Perhaps the Sith Industrial engineering society, Transactions of the association for stellar military science ?

Of course the force only knows what standards of proof I would have to meet to convince people that feel their great skill overwhelms material advantage otherwise.
So you are full of crap, you have no actual data, standard methodology, etc. Do you understand what I mean by metrics driven development? See the fine folks at BioWare gather this actual data and they actually study it using some pretty standard methodologies to gain insight on just what you're whining about. Do you think you are smarter and more enlighten than the people that have all the real data? The people that made the game?

Beyond very basic return player data, you cannot know anything.

Your supposition boils down to, people with better tools are always better at using a tool. I have a very basic example to prove your supposition moronic.

I give you the game of baseball.

Little league players are allowed to use high tech bats, the rules of Major League Baseball say they are not allowed. Only wood. Since the little league players have a better tool they should be able to preform at the same or better rate as the players that have spent the time to practice and learn.

By your logic little Timmy, the twelve year old with a high tech ceramic bat that [has been proven with metric driven development practices] to be far superior to wood; will be able to perform at the same rate as a major league player.

Right.

Are you really Sir Copperfield or Marty Mar? You are a gaming legend, huh.
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General_Brass's Avatar


General_Brass
04.21.2014 , 10:26 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by zaskar View Post
So you are full of crap
As I suspected. You are just trying to escalate this into name calling and take it away from any actual discussion. The good thing is that you were very obvious.

Edit: Wow should of recognized your pilots, From Pot5 and arguing this ? Pot5 is where I collected my data before I left, and it's the poster child of just what a cesspit GSF can degenerate into. You have entire factions there running 90%+ loss rates for days at a time.