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Bolster at level 55 - FAQ Vs Reality

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Bolster at level 55 - FAQ Vs Reality

varietasplus's Avatar


varietasplus
04.11.2014 , 09:05 AM | #31
Dear Eric Musco,


I am still waiting for your explanation: how do you resolve the contradiction of reasoning on the importance of gear progression in PVP and having Bolster applied to level 55 at the same time?

To make it clear: Bolstered PVE gear at the moment is equal (or even better) than Tier 1 (Obroan) PVP gear and definitely superiour to previous tiers of PVP gear. How exactly does this mechanism serves as an incentive to grind PVP gear?

And honestly: do you really think a noob is helped out in endgame PVP with Bolster? Do you really believe the 3-6% edge a PVP gear should have over any bolstered PVE gear would make any difference for them? Seriously.

All you achieved was to eliminate the incentive for PVPers to grind gear and piss them off.
Or to be fair, I can not speak for them, but I do not wish to grind PVE commendations or to craft modifications to find out which is significantly better than the PVP gear.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
04.11.2014 , 09:52 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Dawginole View Post
Interesting. Because not once since launch have I taken a toon through fps in order to gear for ops. Why would anyone do this? You can get in a party and grind out a set of 66's from the Oricon missions. At which point you are thoroughly geared to run SM's to get into 69's.

And for anyone that's working on an alt, they will just use basic comms from a main or other 55 to gear straight into 69's. There is absolutely no reason to ever have to gear for end game via FP's, so that argument should be tossed straight out.
everything you say changes with every content update. some fps lose relevance. new ones drop better gear. new storylines (like oricon) raise gear levels. etc. at this point, recruit gear that's the equivalent of conqueror would be meh for pve and good for pvp (if bolster didn't make it worse than pve gear). the separation between 2 and 3 tiers of pvp gear is not huge in and of itself and it hasn't been since the institution of ewh vs. wh. from that point on, the tier increases have been less...significant.
Krackerjack/Deinon
JC/Harb

MotorCityMan's Avatar


MotorCityMan
04.11.2014 , 10:04 AM | #33
What a long winded post for the OP to say that they want everyone to follow their path into pvp and only be allowed entry on their say so. Couldn't disagree more.
If someone who has never tried pvp or played very little develops an interest in pvp while they have a level 55 character, more power to them. What are they supposed to do, level a new character just because some other player doesn't want to let them into the pvp club? Any suggestion that insists that they undergo some right of passage smacks of hazing and gang initiations and is pathological.
Bolster is a great idea. It just was poorly implemented and not fully explained but now that has mostly been corrected. Any so called "pvp'er" shouldn't have an issue with it as they should have all pvp gear anyways.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
04.11.2014 , 10:39 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
What a long winded post for the OP to say that they want everyone to follow their path into pvp and only be allowed entry on their say so. Couldn't disagree more.
If someone who has never tried pvp or played very little develops an interest in pvp while they have a level 55 character, more power to them. What are they supposed to do, level a new character just because some other player doesn't want to let them into the pvp club? Any suggestion that insists that they undergo some right of passage smacks of hazing and gang initiations and is pathological.
Bolster is a great idea. It just was poorly implemented and not fully explained but now that has mostly been corrected. Any so called "pvp'er" shouldn't have an issue with it as they should have all pvp gear anyways.
I'm not sure you understand the argument from the angle of a PvPer. We're not against people queuing for reg warzones. We encourage participation in PvP to increase the number of players. Unfortunately, bolster does not properly prepare players for the experience and it ends up being negative instead of positive. By having a system telling you PvE gear is ok, they queue in whatever they have on and if that is 78s or unaugmented, you're going to have a bad time. Having 2018 (or close at least) expertise and at least a full set of optimal blue augments or better is imperitive to not be outmatched on gear alone.

As for ranked, it should not be open to everyone, just like any top tier content shouldn't be available to anyone who just hit 55. This is not the place to learn PvP or earn entry gear, it's the place to compete. If we had an enormous population and those underskilled/undergeared players would only face each other, then it wouldn't be a problem. But currently, the queue for ranked is small enough to where you will face the best players if you queue. You're bringing the entire team's rating down if you queue as an undergeared player and die in the first 10 seconds.

TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
04.11.2014 , 01:40 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.
Dear BW, ^this.

I don't care what you WANT rated pvp to be. the fact of the matter is that it is what it is. see quote. k thx. bai.
Krackerjack/Deinon
JC/Harb

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
04.11.2014 , 02:52 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
Dear BW, ^this.

I don't care what you WANT rated pvp to be. the fact of the matter is that it is what it is. see quote. k thx. bai.
I assume you and Jades are saying remove bolster from ranked, but that wouldn't really solve the issue, especially with Yolo.

It really needs a gear/EXP/Aug check either way, along with something else. I know it might sound lame, but valor at least shows a player played a certain amount of WZ, so theoretically should have a "clue". Still a bit fuzzy o. That one though.

Keep in mind they also added bolster to "eliminate gear as a barrier to ranked", especially for alt rerolls. I much rather see other ranked restrictions go up based on performance, rather than arbitrary gear stats.
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Morgond's Avatar


Morgond
04.11.2014 , 03:15 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Neoforcer View Post
Yet people go ape over the fact bolster is in rank it's there because noobs will still que for it. Blocking some one from rank because you want uber competition is great gaming how? No aspect of an MMO should be off limits to any of the population they should even let free to play run all pvp period better for ques. Bolster does not stop you from being competitive in rank what you really want is under gear players getting stomped in ranks. Give it a rest bolster is here to stay move on already
I agree with this. Trying to limit the players that can participate is a terrible idea.

The problem with bolster as is - we need a clearer path for gear progression. Often times putting on a piece of shiny new PvP gear makes your stats worse in PvP (and PvE) and that is frustrating. Just give us a clear and easy to understand path for gear progression.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
04.11.2014 , 03:57 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
I assume you and Jades are saying remove bolster from ranked, but that wouldn't really solve the issue, especially with Yolo.

It really needs a gear/EXP/Aug check either way, along with something else. I know it might sound lame, but valor at least shows a player played a certain amount of WZ, so theoretically should have a "clue". Still a bit fuzzy o. That one though.

Keep in mind they also added bolster to "eliminate gear as a barrier to ranked", especially for alt rerolls. I much rather see other ranked restrictions go up based on performance, rather than arbitrary gear stats.
lol. no. you cannot ban bad ppl from rated. you can, however, make it non-retarded by removing bolster and instituting a gear requirement (2018 exp). the valor thing is superfluous. there's a gear grind to get a full set of pvp gear. the bolster system, amongst other dumb ****, undercuts this gear grind.

so yes. that's TWO fundamental things that any idiot could see are a good idea for rated pvp in a pug system like yolo solo. however, the argument to eliminate bolster from rated holds independent of the expertise requirement. rated pvp is not an entry level format. BW has stated that their "official reason" for keeping bolster in rated is so as not to deter first time PVPers (see the infamous PVP FAQ post). You see where this is going, right? bolster doesn't make sense in rated even by BW's own moronic logic.

edit: 2018 exp is a ridiculously easy to attain req. it's not like it's asking a lot. it's a full set of any pvp tier. and without bolster screwing things up, even partisan would be better than pve ops gear.

edit 2: can you find 5 PvPers who actually queue solo rated who would object to having to gear out alts properly if it meant everybody else on their team would definitely be geared properly as well? I don't think those 5 ppl exist.
Krackerjack/Deinon
JC/Harb

SithEBM-Reborn's Avatar


SithEBM-Reborn
04.11.2014 , 06:24 PM | #39
This was a good read.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
04.11.2014 , 07:28 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
lol. no. you cannot ban bad ppl from rated. you can, however, make it non-retarded by removing bolster and instituting a gear requirement (2018 exp). the valor thing is superfluous. there's a gear grind to get a full set of pvp gear. the bolster system, amongst other dumb ****, undercuts this gear grind.

so yes. that's TWO fundamental things that any idiot could see are a good idea for rated pvp in a pug system like yolo solo. however, the argument to eliminate bolster from rated holds independent of the expertise requirement. rated pvp is not an entry level format. BW has stated that their "official reason" for keeping bolster in rated is so as not to deter first time PVPers (see the infamous PVP FAQ post). You see where this is going, right? bolster doesn't make sense in rated even by BW's own moronic logic.

edit: 2018 exp is a ridiculously easy to attain req. it's not like it's asking a lot. it's a full set of any pvp tier. and without bolster screwing things up, even partisan would be better than pve ops gear.

edit 2: can you find 5 PvPers who actually queue solo rated who would object to having to gear out alts properly if it meant everybody else on their team would definitely be geared properly as well? I don't think those 5 ppl exist.
Well I doubt if anyone would object, but removing bolster will more or less have no affect on undergeared and/or inexperienced players from queing. In just being devils advocate here, but really, team ranked guys police themselves, so bolster is somewhat of a non-issue. I 100% agree that bolster invalidated the grind, but as you said, its easy, and team ranked isn't the place for grinding gear, so why not just eliminate it, and place bolster EXP and augment checks, and something as a performace gauge to qualify, whether we are talking team or yolo?
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango