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RIP orbital strike


DeadDogBarking's Avatar


DeadDogBarking
01.14.2014 , 10:36 PM | #161
Quote: Originally Posted by Glower View Post
Never. Cuz for snipers orbital strike is mostly defensive skill i.e. cast on himself! And now its pointless...
Try to 2x snipe and Ambush without an OS without an OS and still be usefull to your team in an arena if you are getting focused as an MM. It makes the loss of life more of a trade of for the attackers. Along with giving other ranged protection. Even if everybody was smart and stayed out of it I could still determine where the battle took place. In arenas you can also destroy a teams ability to focus. MM is one of the few casting classes in arenas that can loose damage because of LOS, but still provide noticeable support for their team. Lethality can still have good numbers, but are they as usefull and are still easier to take down without the CC immunity.

For MM in PVP and PVE this is basically removing a top level ability that had realistic issues nobody was complaining about. Corrosive dart ticks on 2 other people in an arena are not enough of a trade off for the MM spec, but they do help the Lethality spec that was said to be the reason for the nerf.

Hopefully this is all politcal so they can scale it back and people will be happy. That would at least show the use of logic in why the nerf is the way it is now.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.15.2014 , 01:08 AM | #162
Quote: Originally Posted by HaoZhao View Post
It's not a bad change, in spirit. Orbital Strike was comically overpowered. Drop it on any stationary boss and you do gigantic damage with minimal effort. With that said, there needs to be a talent near the top of the engineering tree which gives most of that damage back to OS.
It's a pretty awful change in spirit. The ability has been neutered in all respects. Not only it's usefulness, but its very feel.

Also I fail to see how that's particularly overpowered. There are a lot of classes that can drop gigantic damage on a boss with minimal effort.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Posejdon's Avatar


Posejdon
01.15.2014 , 06:56 PM | #163
Just compare OS to Death from Above....
Death from Above deals about 10-15% less damage than OS.
Death from Above is about 3sec channel,
Orbital Strike is about 3 sec cast,
DfA deal about 8.5k dmg and channel ends. Damage is done in 3~ secs. (if nothing disrupted channel, otherwise DfA deal just a part of dmg.
OS deal about 10k dmg after 3 secs of cast and then in time of 9 secs. (if nothing disrupted cast, otherwise OS deals no dmg)

8,5k in 3 sec is about 2833 dps
10k dmg in 3 sec is about 3333 dps

and now its 3,6k dps in 2,5 sec of cast thats = 1440
with this change OS is not worth effort anymore

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
01.15.2014 , 07:07 PM | #164
Quote: Originally Posted by Posejdon View Post
Just compare OS to Death from Above....
Death from Above deals about 10-15% less damage than OS.
Death from Above is about 3sec channel,
Orbital Strike is about 3 sec cast,
DfA deal about 8.5k dmg and channel ends. Damage is done in 3~ secs. (if nothing disrupted channel, otherwise DfA deal just a part of dmg.
OS deal about 10k dmg after 3 secs of cast and then in time of 9 secs. (if nothing disrupted cast, otherwise OS deals no dmg)

8,5k in 3 sec is about 2833 dps
10k dmg in 3 sec is about 3333 dps


with this change OS is not worth effort anymore

and now its 3,6k dps in 2,5 sec of cast thats = 1440
You forgot that DFA is kinetic damage, so that 2833dps is actually 1982 dps AFTER the armor debuff, or when used by an Arsenal Merc its about a 2323dps

So its 2323/1982 dps (1982 is the number by the higher parsing spec) vs 1440/1656/2400 dps (lethality/engineering/marksman) - and after crits its about 2658/2424 vs 1699/2070/2832 dps

So a Marksman Sniper's Orbital damage is about 6.5% stronger than an Arsenal Merc's Death from Above.

Helmholtzz's Avatar


Helmholtzz
01.15.2014 , 11:37 PM | #165
Why is the MM orbital hitting harder? There is no skill points buffing OS damage for MM. MM orbital should do 15% less damage than engineering OS. Remember the PvP set bonus is removed so you get only 3 ticks not 4. So you need to change your calculation.
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TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
01.16.2014 , 05:03 AM | #166
Quote: Originally Posted by Helmholtzz View Post
Why is the MM orbital hitting harder? There is no skill points buffing OS damage for MM. MM orbital should do 15% less damage than engineering OS. Remember the PvP set bonus is removed so you get only 3 ticks not 4. So you need to change your calculation.
We were talking about damage per activation time. In the case of a marksman sniper, they get talents that reduce the activation time by 1 second. They also get 15 seconds off the cooldown (60-45 on live, 45-30 on PTS). So if its DPS when used on cooldown, marksman wins easily, and if its DPS per second of activation, Marksman wins.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.17.2014 , 01:51 AM | #167
I wouldn't accept the premise of posted numbers. My MV seems to have a decently heavier tooltip damage. Also it doesn't change the fact that the listed damage is pretty sad when you actually want to take down adds.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Cammra's Avatar


Cammra
01.17.2014 , 09:22 AM | #168
I'm sure no one cares, but this hurts medicine operatives (and the smuggler counterpart I imagine) harder than anyone else I think, in solo PVE. Fighting gold star mobs or higher are where this hurts hardest.

I'm somewhat new, but nevertheless I have a 55 kinetic (tank) shadow, and a 55 medicine operative. My operative was my first character, leveled up as medicine. I always knew it was a painful, tough time playing that character, but I never knew just how bad it was until my shadow started leveling. Everything seemed so much faster, not to mention I had actual defensive cooldowns. Even stuck with Theran as healer, I just killed everything so much faster on my shadow. I mean I get to backstab them in the face with a proc! Why can't my Op get that when backstab has a cooldown? I mean really, I can't use my medicine knowledge to do any kind of damage to someone?

And Oricon? Don't even get me started on how bad Oricon was for my operative compared to how easy it was for my shadow. Suffice it to say, my op has never done the dailies, my shadow does them regularly.

Think about the single target rotation of a medicine OP. If you are lucky you can open with hidden strike, but with the psychic stealth detection mobs have, that is maybe 50/50 at best, unless its all alone. Backstab doesn't work now because the operative has aggro. You're left with shiv, explosive probe, and corrosive dart with rifle shot as filler in all too many places, because of the cooldowns on those. You can hit debilitate and get a backstab there, and if your timing is incrediblely good, flashbang will get you another. Most of the time I try not to heal early so that my companion gets some aggro from any adds so I can backstab them. Thankfully I can toss in orbital strike to speed things along.

What about standard/weak adds and AOE? Well believe it or not, I rarely bother with orbital strike for those. Firstly, it takes far too long to activate and for the damage to come down on a weak pack of mobs. Thermal grenade and carbine burst are where its at. With Thermal grenade I can knock a standard down and backstab them while they are laying...on their back. And as medicine I can get 3 TA so 3 carbine bursts on a nice group of standards pretty much destroys them, with the grenade AOE adding a bit more damage on top.

Whats my companion doing? Less DPS. And not holding aggro. After suffering so long with Kaliyo during the leveling process, despite keeping her gear up to date, I was so happy to dump her for ensign Temple and have a noticeable DPS increase. Kaliyo never held aggro anyway. Maybe I'd get a random backstab when she taunted, but that was it. I was always forced to heal, tank, and do most of the DPS to kill anything. But I can't heal and do DPS at the same time (Kolto probe is rarely enough).

Orbital strike is a much needed single target DPS move for medicine because it has nothing else, and it sucks that it comes so late, but its so nice to have once you get it. Suddenly I could start fighting gold stars rather than avoiding them like a plague, even though it still takes a terribly long time.

I know, no one cares at all about solo PVE, and probably even less about medicine spec DPS, but the bottom line is, if some DPS spec is doing too much damage, then clearly the answer is not to massively nerf orbital strike and impact every spec in wildly disparate ways, but to carefully and responsibly lower DPS for that spec and that spec alone.

cool-dude's Avatar


cool-dude
01.19.2014 , 05:22 AM | #169
Since no one else on this forum is saying it. There should never be a nerf based on how players choose to use their abilities. I find it absurd that the basis for their decision concerning the relevant ability/abilities, is because players got smart enough to utilize an ability that the developers did not think of it being used for. It's preposterous! With this logic, they should go ahead and consider nerfing explosive probe, as it is a cover ability, and operatives, an advanced class for the Agent, uses it instead of overload shot , despite it being cover dependant, which is not intended to be used as an operative.
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ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.19.2014 , 12:37 PM | #170
Agreed. If Orbital was leading to snipers taking huge leads in DPS in Single Target fights I might agree, but my experience is that for decent players, any of the ranged classes are right in line with each other.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd