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1 Non-Fight puzzle OP?


Horaciozhao's Avatar


Horaciozhao
10.28.2013 , 08:49 AM | #21
stand in the middle and just kill? I don't know you, I surely will be bored in 1 minute, what's the point to do something like that? just spaming you keyboard and everything dies, and you live like a hero.......do that in one fight in one op, it's ok, but a whole op 2 or 3 hours like that, I really don't know. Plus you have a good example like that, the Colicoid Warfare flashpoint that first trial..........just stand in the middle and kill, tell me you are not bored to hell.

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
10.29.2013 , 02:58 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by befear View Post
the new ops have no puzzle fight
Draxus and Calyphus are technically puzzle fights.

Leadspitndragon's Avatar


Leadspitndragon
10.29.2013 , 10:14 AM | #23
Another long post but replying to multiple questions proposed so anyway sorry for the long post.

On the issue of the healers range depending how you design the terrain it may be easier than you think. IF it was a single large open space like 100m+ by 100m+ it could be trouble. Though there are simple solutions to this that don't make it puzzle like, for example placing the enemy stacked in set locations. By that I mean the melee enemies would be on the ground level of a room with turrets one the outer edge of say make the room about 50m by 50m so healers could easily move to location to heal others and place the ranged enemies on a second level like a catwalk allowing them to be more easily attacked by the ranged DPS.

The whole issue is LOS for both the healers and dps to reach those in range. By allowing the healers to take a middle location between the "big brawl" in the middle and the "fringe" action on the edges of the the combat area they are able to heal more effectively. Also remember the point is that the tanks like normal are drawing the fire from the majority of the enemies making them the ones most likely to lose HP. While the ranged DPS or stealth members are picking of those on the outer edges or getting objectives.

That's on the bigger combat areas on the more story parts you can have the ops group split along separate paths in a way so the healers will again be most effective and have the easier time. Like breaking the ops down into mini FP's for each path.


On the issue of just standing in the middle killing that would get old no argument that's why that would only be a small part of the entire OP. My point is those massive mob fights wouldn't be on every one of the trash mobs instead more like what are now some of the smaller boss fights. You could easily do larger mobs for the trash mobs since they are weaker enemies but it wouldn't be as many as compared to a mob used as a mini boss fight.

The idea is that on a big fight areas would be having the story go something like your team of 8 or 16 has just regrouped after like a split up part of the OP and then breach a big locked door. Inside it could easily be a large hallway and swarms of enemies attack in a set number of waves. This way the enemy comes to the group and everyone doesn't have to run all over a large room. With this you could be nice on the players and put a trigger where the next wave won't spawn till the last guy of the previous wave is killed, or not if you want to it for HM. That would give healers more chances to top everyone's HP off before the next wave. Again this could be a room with some type of clicky or auto-turret, or healing droids that players can use to make it easier to clear the area or just easier on the healers depending on the story of whatever is going on in that area of the OP.

This would make best use of both stealth group members being able to sneak up to something before the combat starts or during combat. While allowing the ranged DPS to clearly target a set type of enemy and cover their team using their biggest advantage range. It also gives both the sorc's AOE heals and operative's ranged heals equal chances of reaching everyone. Throw a in few short cut-scenes or even just a dialogue explaining why players might have to split up, or be facing a massive mob of weaklings, or what have you and you've added drama and if done right suspense and action in between the fights making the players want to fight more.

The big difference between what I'm envisioning and the Colicoid Warfare flashpoint would be the whole pace of the fight. In that FP you just sit and point, there's not really much "action" for lack of a better word. That's why I want it easily set up where the players have easy LOS to their targets/allies and the pace of the fight is what makes it fun.

You could do a Colicoid swarm in an OP where you have something simple like 1-2 players of any class have to use a clicky or even use a large turret and the rest of the team has to keep them covered. Think of it like a story section where you have to do a King of the Hill style mission for a little bit.

With something like those examples I hope I showed it's possible to keep the OPs group in a tighter mob while allowing a clearer LOS for each player to attack/heal what's best for their role without making it a puzzle-fight. It's about using the unique parts of each role to it's max while keeping the actual required actions as simple as possible to maintain a faster pace to the action. I want people breathing hard and laughing from how fun it was between each of the fights.

Cessna_X's Avatar


Cessna_X
12.08.2013 , 04:42 PM | #24
So basically, you're looking for something like Halo's Firefight. Sounds fun to me; I support.
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fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
12.10.2013 , 07:40 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Leadspitndragon View Post
The OP's are needed for the best comms to get the best gear but I can not begin to describe how sick I am of the fight puzzle style. I don't want to switch to this guy to stun then quickly switch to a group member to cleanse then on to another enemy to interrupt. It's to bloody many steps I just want to kill things and feel like a bad*** sith! I could rant and rave about the ways OP's are setup but I'll just ask one thing.
If you want to just smash stuff may I suggest you try undermanning EV/KP 16 man? Just go with 1 tank, 2 dps and 1 healer. I dont remember if I did this on 16 man HM or NiM. All I know is that it was hellish to heal (not sure about the difficulty for the dps'ers and tank tbh).
Anyway. You wanted to do ops without puzzles. Now a days you can run EV/KP without paying attention to mechanics besides standing in the obvious bad stuff. Just try it.

About new opses which require only to kill wave after wave ... no thanks. I'm allready tunneling from boredom when my raidleader forces me to play sharpshooter.
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SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
12.10.2013 , 08:46 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Dawginole View Post
All these suggestions are still "operations" and still instanced content. The thing that bothers me about SWTOR end game is that it seems that the devs just want to have operations and flashpoints and daily areas. It's time for something new. I'm not saying stop making new ops, but a new game type needs to be added. And it's time for some real world dynamic content. Stuff that happens on the planets and draws 55's back to those places and happens out in the open.
I actually agree, Ops are fun and all, but think how much fun it would be to fight off a group of enemy NPCs trying to take over a quest hub, with the size of the enemy force being dependent on the number of players in the area.

RIFT has Rifts and Invations, FF14 has Fates... Why can't we get some kind of dynamic events in SWTOR?
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Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
12.10.2013 , 09:50 AM | #27
I haven't tried "dynamic" events in Rift, never made it that far, but I have tried them in guild wars 2. and personally? not only do they get boring after a while, they get downright annoying, when you are just trying to play through the area and maybe you are playing during off hours, but town you want is taken over and you need more people around to save it.

so IMO, introduction of dynamic events should that happen sometime in a future? needs to be done carefully and thoughtfully. and honestly? I'm not sure how it could be done in interesting manners as an ongoing pve event. but hey, maybe they'll prove me wrong?