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People playing PVP still don't understand killing healers is PRIORITY

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
People playing PVP still don't understand killing healers is PRIORITY

limenutpen's Avatar


limenutpen
11.15.2013 , 11:27 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
Going for the healers first isn't always the best way.
Amen Sir. Unless the healer is weak its the worst strategy ever.

I think DPS should look at enemy buffs and switch to one of the unguarded DPS, if tank or who is guarding is clever will switch. Usually he does it when you are around 50% of his health. he will switch guard from healer.
But I would go for the weaker class in this order Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor (to make a simple category).
What you need to do on healer is have some1 bright disturb him and interrupt his big burst heals.

Going for healers is dumbest strategy ever versus a strong healer or a good set up of players...
Nutpen: Sage, Lim'suno: Scoundrel, Lei'Suno: Commando
Los'suno: Assasin, Diopen: Juggernaut

Sowwy's Avatar


Sowwy
11.15.2013 , 11:39 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by limenutpen View Post
Amen Sir. Unless the healer is weak its the worst strategy ever.

I think DPS should look at enemy buffs and switch to one of the unguarded DPS, if tank or who is guarding is clever will switch. Usually he does it when you are around 50% of his health. he will switch guard from healer.
But I would go for the weaker class in this order Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor (to make a simple category).
What you need to do on healer is have some1 bright disturb him and interrupt his big burst heals.

Going for healers is dumbest strategy ever versus a strong healer or a good set up of players...

Furthermore, when facing good teams going for the healer first often means a dps is over-extending, which either results in becoming isolated (then blown up) or forcing their own healer to break lines and expose themselves too otherwise avoidable damage. Either way, its a bad scenario and I've lost countless games to blind blood lust.

Tankqull's Avatar


Tankqull
11.15.2013 , 01:05 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Grethore View Post
If an op/scoun can heal through stupid, then their healing IS over powered.
well no - it should tell the stupid to become smart and not blame scouperatives to be OP.

you can kill every healing class with as much peoples supporting you as he is supported by. if you cant it is a problem on your side not a balance issue(as arenas proof every day).

Sareleme's Avatar


Sareleme
11.15.2013 , 01:11 PM | #44
Perhaps its all in my head.

But I enjoy building up my stacks on a dps (I have been pvping on a gunner commando) and then dropping a quick burst rotation onto a healer. A lot of healers are used to the rotation of being focused and self healing. >_> I like to think that giving them multiple dying targets gets their cooldowns used, their blood pumping frantically and ends up making them easier to kill.

Granted, there are healers that are more experienced and you can tell. They don't fluster as easily.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
11.15.2013 , 01:23 PM | #45
There is not a definite solution.

PvP is a constant stream of discisions. Target priority changes every second depending on what cooldowns are active what the healer is doing, what his tank is doing, what his dps are doing, what you are doing, etc. Every GCD a player has to take in that information and make a judgement call on how to respond. In some situations you go after the healer, others the dps. Heck I have had ranked situations where we just focus the tank into the ground. (generally with dps geared tanks)

The only rule for target priorities, is to kill targets of opportunity.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aves
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Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
11.15.2013 , 01:26 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Grethore View Post
Sorry to say this, and I'll likely get flamed for it, but......

Healing is WAY over powered right now; for some classes, less so for others. Commandos/mercs are, IMHO are where they should be, sorc/sages are a little too capable of healing while ops/scoundrels are far far ahead of where they should be.

Let me explain.
Healing should NEVER be nearly as potent as dps. It has always been, historically and logically, easier to destroy things than it is to create or heal. Healing shouldn't prevent death entirely, but only extend the amount of time before death would occur. But right now, this isn't the case. As it is, an op can keep and entire team alive with little to no resource management needed, and when combined with their own healing they have some incredible survivability.

Some say ops/scouns are not OP....likely because they play the class and don't want them hit with the nerf bat. Some also say that a healer should never be killable by one person. On this I disagree. Again, going back to what I said earlier about it has always been easier to destroy than to create philosophy, a single dps should be ABLE to kill a healer, unguarded of course, not quickly but it should be possible. I'm NOT saying healers should be free kills or anything, just that they shouldn't be able to completely counter damage completely. Again, healing should extend how long you live, not make you immortal. It should be a battle of attrition, not a "oh crap they have 3 ops healers, we're screwed!"

Mandos/mercs are where all healers should be, and the other 2 healing classes brought down to their level. And I honestly think it would improve things. The way healing is, specifically ops/scoun heals are right now, when combined with the over abundance of CC, it's just too much. Make people have to work at it a bit rather than being ROFL mode. If an op/scoun can heal through stupid, then their healing IS over powered.

Good healers will still excel, but bad ones will quickly be outted for making so many mistakes. Hopefully, learning from their mistakes.

And this is why healers are THE priority target to kill first. Because they are so powerful and able to completely and decisively determine the outcome. In essence, 1 decent healer is worth more than 4 decent dps in most cases. And that shouldn't be the case.

I know, I have a 53 scoundrel, and it's kinda sad that I can survive 3 dps on me even though all 3 are unloading on me. And what's worse is that, I normally play scrapper on my scoundrel, and is geared for it, and I can STILL heal extremely effectively in dps gear. That's just sad.
Am I dreaming ? After two years, I read for the first time someone who thinks like me ?

Grethore's Avatar


Grethore
11.16.2013 , 12:02 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by ishbindeinvater View Post
grethor i think you are wrong. a healer should be able to heal 1 dps damage at least, and you cant be serious when you say you can heal yourself while having 3 dps on you. you still need tactical advantage for the instant heal and the instant heal alone wont keep you alive against 3, neither 2 good dps. not talking about getting you stunlocked against 3. or are you talking about arenas with a tank? then its not a 3v1, seriously.

i am not playing any healer right now, though i have an 55 operative (lethality). there must be tweaks, surgical probe should cost some energy too (cull for example needs a TA and costs energy) and all is fine.

in ranked with healer, tank 2 dps, you have to be very patient to kill someone. how many games are decided when the gas comes? too many! that happens mostly when 2 good op healers on both sides and of course the other players shouldnt suck too.

for arenas only nerf smash (hitting only 1 or 2) and energy cost to SP for ops.
yeah and nerf the thousands of stuns, make the white resolve bar last longer. its not funny...
TA or the scoundrel equivelent is EASY to get. There is a talent that gives you 1 or 2 stacks when you exit stealth, dropping the hot on 3 targets (3 globals) is easy enough too.

Secondly, even with 3 on me, dodge and shield negates most of the damage I would have taken. And then there is the free instant once you get to 30% health, and then the WZ med pack. Boom back to 80% health in 1 global. And then you cleanse and roll away and line of sight them. Not hard to do at all.

Point is and was, op/scoundrel heals are too good right now. And healing should NEVER be able to match with incoming damage as easily as it does right now. As I said before, it is and always has been, in the real world at least, easier to destroy things than it is to create.

Just remember, I'm not saying all healers need to be nerfed, just ops/scoundrels. Merc/mandos and Sorc/sages healing is fine and about where they should be, but ops/scoundrels are too potent considering half their healing abilities are instant, with a quarter of them a instant drop and heal over time. It's very hard to interrupt an instant ya know.

DeadDogBarking's Avatar


DeadDogBarking
11.16.2013 , 01:10 PM | #48
Please do not miss what the OP is trying to say.
The "focusing the healer is BAD" options are really good basic/entry level advice for the chess play style, but on my server (Harbringer) many Imps and plenty of Pubs need to work on the simplest mechanics of checkers first.

I have seen whole matches where the winning team uses the sandbags in Novarre and the door entry in (whats that name *%&^$^) to block our team and get their objectives/orbs and allow their healers to cast freely. Many of our players know how to get good damage and that is all they worry about. I can not count the number of games lost that I saw Juggs and Sins with 0 protection and snipers who never used their dome and our team also had a 35% lead in damage and heals.

I say baby steps first
  • get these folks to map their target markers and learn to always identify and mark healer and do everything you can to slow them down.
This would be a huge improvement, and hopefully some light bulbs come on as they see how awareness of the real time affects of terrain, teamwork and pressure are greater than their individual damage.

I think in today's world adding the word PRIORITY to "kill the healers" goes out of many folks comfort zone and attention span.

NOW I WILL RANT
I really get tired of seeing my damage drop like a stone when I have to charge past their first line of defense on my ranged dps to find/pressure a healer. I also may have to wait before I hit spawn to get them marked. When returning after my violent stun lock death, I will notice folks leaving the uncaptured node to ninja the enemys home base or moving backwards in unison to 5v1 a leaper with the newly marked healer freecasting and the team taking the objective. Also many forum readers may find many individual issues with my explanation of this suggestion and/or my playstyle. If your self esteem and real world accomplishments are so low that you can only belittle another by nit picking tertiary facts of someones reply instead of trying to identify and address shared concern, I will say that I was glad to help.

OpeningToEndgame's Avatar


OpeningToEndgame
11.17.2013 , 09:31 AM | #49
I was in an Areana. My team had 4 dps. The opposing team had TWO guarded Op healers. Both geared. It's hard enough to kill one, how would kill 2? cc doesn't work. Another flawed fail system. I really wish they'd put more work into pvp.

awaldemars's Avatar


awaldemars
11.18.2013 , 01:07 AM | #50
Since I play healer often ... you can shut a healer down with one or 2 players of any kind because I'll end up chain healing myself ... if I'm busy healing myself ... I'm not doing ANY healing for my team

And it really doesn't matter which healer I play and I do play all 3 types