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SG Breaks Bioware (16-Man)


IrishChu's Avatar


IrishChu
08.21.2013 , 08:13 PM | #41
for anyone outside of these banters reading this, realize that never , ever, EVER, will you see an 8man group say "hey, lets jump this to 16man to clear this easy mode".

But what you will see, and we have witnessed, is 16man groups say , "we are dropping this to 8man to clear this and get loot" after a night of wiping near the end of the weekly reset.

There is a reason for this. the ultimate challenge is at 16man.

What you will see is people not looking to step up or take on the challenge to prop themselves up to the same level. This of course is obvious and only makes them look tired post after post.

winning the little league world series DOES NOT EQUAL winning the world series.
Braedenz - 55 Gunslinger - Prophecy of the Five

Classicks's Avatar


Classicks
08.22.2013 , 12:14 AM | #42
10/10 - Would read again.

Interesting that the burn strat still works. We've essentially been going through progression again and trying to find something that can be as consistent as the pre-patch strat. Fun stuff
Fusebaux Comeback Compel Dicaprio Alwaysnever Foals

PvE Scoundrel Healing Guide

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
08.22.2013 , 01:04 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by IrishChu View Post
for anyone outside of these banters reading this, realize that never , ever, EVER, will you see an 8man group say "hey, lets jump this to 16man to clear this easy mode".

But what you will see, and we have witnessed, is 16man groups say , "we are dropping this to 8man to clear this and get loot" after a night of wiping near the end of the weekly reset.

There is a reason for this. the ultimate challenge is at 16man.

What you will see is people not looking to step up or take on the challenge to prop themselves up to the same level. This of course is obvious and only makes them look tired post after post.

winning the little league world series DOES NOT EQUAL winning the world series.
We cleared 4/5 TFB tonight. One shotted everything up until kephess. Spent about two hours/30 mins

Following is 100% my opinion

TWH- We 15 manned it not difficult in 8 or 16. had to hold dps at 21% as we do in 8M to wait for third puddle.


DG- P3 on 16 is crazy intense. First two felt lackluster, only 1 lightning storm/1 shield ***? Can't judge didn't run pre nerf. P3 was real fun nothing like that in 8M outside pre- nerf DPS check.


Op-9 Phase one felt like a flashpoint. Had plenty of time to hold/kill adds in phase one before swapping colors. Phase 2 was fun/intense, AoE DMG is non existent in 8M that it requires you to stack or die. 4 adds is a nice touch. About same 8-16 8 = dps check 16 = heals (p2)

Kephess- Wiped 5-6 times, first pull was a 1% wipe . Seems more dps intensive early (pre 50%) but the final burn you can do without all dps up. Had to hold at 51% and 11% to get an extras tower/burn same as 8. Nanities seem same from 8-16. Jump/lazer move didn't one shot anyone (2 sorcs/5 ops). Had seen rumors it does in 16.

TFB- Didn't kill got to 2nd set of tentacles then someone had to go. Phase one was fun, adds seemed to die quick compared to 8. Didn't see healers attempting to dps like you are able to in 8. Phase 2 irregularities don't do trivial damage like they do in 8M (W/cds), might be a hindrance eating slams and having healers heal through that in 16. Seems like you can run an extra healer this fight considering how fast tentacles were dying. Anoms requires multiple people in 16 which was nice.

Raid comp was

PT tank
Jugg tank

Dps
Sorc
2 op
2 mara
1 merc
3 snipers

healers
x3 op
1 sorc

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
08.22.2013 , 01:08 AM | #44
This 8v16 thread reappears monthly and turns into pot5 vs pot5 guild. Lets move on

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
08.22.2013 , 01:17 AM | #45
I Loled at your comment, because what DnT guy says its true, is as simple as that, 16 man can make 2 8 man gruops... 8 man normally doesnt have 8 more to spare to form a 16 man... thats common sense to know... also its easy to know that normally a 16 man group has between 6-7 maybe 8 super great players, then a mix of Good-Decent to fill... that would make a Great World first 16 man group (because having 16 together is just way harder than 8 man, so cant expect 16 of the best)... so when u split those 16, get rid of the "fillers" decent players, and group the 7-8 great players, of course 8 man is easier, because u are not carrying under performing players + less lag + less FPs, because half a 16 man good group, can probably divide into a really good 8 man, simple.

heres my example, mixed our A+B groups, first time ever playing 16 man for 15/16 besides milas, no one had any idea, or saw videos, we just went in for fun....

WH 1 shot easy (15 man it)
http://i.imgur.com/rvyL9yv.jpg

DG 1 shot easy
http://i.imgur.com/RAQtVkQ.jpg

OP a complete joke
http://i.imgur.com/sslBlxs.jpg

Kephess had a one shot, wipe at 1% for noobs, but i can say this seems like a harder fight than in 8 NiM At least.
http://i.imgur.com/Vyy2fNO.jpg

did couple of tries on TFB... P1 is super easy in comparison... P2 healing is just as hard if not harder than dps in P1 8 man, without cheesing P1 with dmg buff thingie... still have my same theory between 8 vs 16 after trying this, healing is WAY harder in 16, while dps is just, meh, incredibly lower requirement compared to 8.

the fps are really annoying, you need to get used to it or adjust your pc with it, most people in 8 man used to play at high settings / graphics, do cause problems, and its highly noticeable, when you grab one of my dps whos in every single 8 man chart ranking... when hes doing 500-800 dps less in 16 man, is not skills trust me, neither the super hard hidden mechanic, just that this game is not good supporting big raids, and its something you need to get used to... playing at 15 fps vs 80 fps is a huge difference unfortunately.

in conclussion: the 8 to 16 transition is way harder than 16 to 8.. because there are many things (including players lol) u need to adjust to do a 16 raid from an 8 man... where 16 have everything in favor to transition to 8... get rid of the baddies, play in way better conditions, Easier to Sync 8 good players than 16 good/bad/decent together plus schedules, idk whats so hard to understand, if you guys think 8 is so easy, bring your best 8 next content compete with the 6-7 good 8 man guilds, instead of being big fish in small pond, its 1, now 2 16 man guilds competing, rest died or fell behind...
the top 2-3 16 man guilds are great and you performance in 16 is outstanding and impressive, have some of the best players in the world and all that... but if 16 mans want to talk **** about 8 man raiding, bring it on and try to beat us in 8 man content and show us how is done,

PD: continue the conversation this forums need some spice lately, been really boring lately, the classic 8 v 16 raid comparison can make it fun for a couple of days .
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
08.22.2013 , 01:30 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by IrishChu View Post
All the competent 16m raids read this and /guffaw
so SG and intrepid? and i guess FF after reform, i dont see a lot of movement in 16 lately... lol
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

Vaidinah's Avatar


Vaidinah
08.22.2013 , 03:08 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
so SG and intrepid? and i guess FF after reform, i dont see a lot of movement in 16 lately... lol
That's because other than wanting the greatest challenge possible, there is no benefit to doing 16 man at all. Without significant rewards, most people will take the easier path. Now, I'm not saying 8 man NiM TFB or S & V is easy at all, but based on my experience, it is generally less difficult in operations than 16 man. The exact opposite of this occurs on World Boss fights like Toborro's Courtyard and Xeno, where they are much easier in 16 man than they are in 8. We have dropped to 8 man in Intrepid on various occasions when doing NiM operations and most of the time, the fights have been less difficult (mostly close with a few painful exceptions)..

There's a hugely important consideration here that you guys in Hatred are missing and that is that you are doing 16 man after already completely clearing 8 man repeatedly. This makes such a big difference because you guys are already heavily experienced for NiM mechanics in general and your overall level of gear is much higher than every guild who did it or are currently in progression.

On pre-pre-nerf 16 man Dread Guards, we struggled with the fight for various reasons, but when we went to 8 man to try to get some gear on an off-day, we got Kel'Sara to less than 15% repeatedly. If we had all 4 of our top DPS on that one day to play, I'm confident we'd have beaten it because the gap in damage from our average DPS and the lowest was enough (it was a pretty big gap) that we'd be able to kill Kel'Sara through her enrage.

Anyways, there's not much point in discussing the difficulty of the fights since 16 man guilds do 8 man and 8 man guilds don't do 16 man until they've already have weeks of experience and a huge gear advantage to start. 8 man guilds are certainly welcome to try 16 man during actual progression. It'd be certainly great to have more guilds involved.
The Harbinger
Intrepid

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Guide: From Beginner to Master

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
08.22.2013 , 03:48 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaidinah View Post
On pre-pre-nerf 16 man Dread Guards, we struggled with the fight for various reasons, but when we went to 8 man to try to get some gear on an off-day, we got Kel'Sara to less than 15% repeatedly. If we had all 4 of our top DPS on that one day to play, I'm confident we'd have beaten it because the gap in damage from our average DPS and the lowest was enough (it was a pretty big gap) that we'd be able to kill Kel'Sara through her enrage.
That was what Carl was refering to do. In 8M you need max accountability from every single player. In 16 you can have god dps carry non god dps and be fine. Obviously you can't have bad dps but you bring someone that doesn't have the ability to play their class in a high tier (1-3% ) if you have others playing in that tier.

On that same note fielding 16 players that are all good mechanically is a challenge. Will openly admit 16 demands more raid awareness/reaction time than 8M does.

I ran 16 content until I joined Hatred and hate these arguments.

I personally feel 16 is more tank/healing intensive and 8M requires all DPS to perform on a high level while in 16 if you have 4-5 dps perform on a high level and the rest on a ok level you'll be fine.

IrishChu's Avatar


IrishChu
08.22.2013 , 04:20 AM | #49
Pretty much true. But Dps is easy, its basically the easiest mechanic in the game. And your even given a dummy to practice over and over on. So when there is less damage going out, less people to look out for, less collateral damage, the fight mechanics are easier and you can focus on DPS which is not hard to begin with... where is the challenge, where is the precision.

Again this thread was created to show that EA has changed a fight to a particular strat on Thrasher. And that strat required God Mode dps in 72 gear, but is easier now in 75 gear so people are calling it cheese. So be it.

Some would say that rolling into TFB 16M with 75 gear, 2 months after release, brandishing them world first titles on post nerf fights, is total cheese. I wouldn't say that. I would say .....Welcome to the Majors mother******

8M - alt mode
16M - champ mode

Some things will never change.
Braedenz - 55 Gunslinger - Prophecy of the Five

Shandellon's Avatar


Shandellon
08.22.2013 , 04:33 AM | #50
Since none of 16man guilds ever raised a topic of cheesing Trasher to be a wrong way to go, why do you even try to discuss this matter with 8mans, who contribute nothing into our 16man community? Waste of time. Let them have their world, let us have ours
Cyntia - Sage Healer Hp - Gunsliger Dps
<Not Good Enough>/<FriendlyFire> @ ToFN