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Sentinels - Top 3 Questions

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JediMasterSLC's Avatar


JediMasterSLC
08.04.2013 , 03:21 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
Why would you want to play as Watchmen in PVP?
Because "Watchman" is super fun, and believe it or not it's what most sentinels were using in PvP in the first couple months since release.

varietasplus's Avatar


varietasplus
08.04.2013 , 04:49 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Clearly you don't play Focus in PvE. No amount of timing fixes the fact that your rotation is essentially suspended and resource starved for fifteen seconds. Pre-2.0, this problem was addressed by building stacks using Stasis. Now, that really isn't an option, and so you basically lose an entire Force Sweep cycle, which is a massive DPS loss.

What "extreme AoE damage"? I can think of one boss with consistent AoE (Dash'roode) and two bosses where large add packs play an important role (Writhing Horror and Titan 6). Even counting all three as fights where Focus excels, that's still the extreme minority of PvE encounters.

10% is a lot of damage. 10% is worth selling your soul for in certain fights (eg TfB NiM).

Oh, I play Focus spec most of the times, cleared S&V HM first week and I was top DPS in the group. You do not seem to know how to work in team with your fellow sentinel(s). Before he pops Inspiration, you should have 30 stacks of Centering, that way for the duration of Inspiration, you will have 3 buffed Force Sweeps (2nd is buffed with Force Exhaustion, 3rd is buffed by your Valorous Call + Zen). By the time 3rd Force Sweep round is over, you will have have FE available again and you can start building stacks of Centering. It is all about co-ordinating Inspiration.

Depending on the DPS group setup, you'd better go Focus for TFB #1 and #3, S&V #1-#3. S&V #4-#5 is not a must, but still makes more sense.

10% is nothing. Remember, you have to work as a team and every DPS needs to pick the skill tree that suits the bossfight best (at least in nigthmare mode). As a Sentinel, you have to ask yourself what is top priority: killing adds quickly (Focus), doing spike damage (Combat) or help survival (Watchmen). It would not make sense if every saber form had same single target damage.

Sprgmr's Avatar


Sprgmr
08.04.2013 , 06:06 PM | #13
I hope I'm not the only one slightly concerned that we missed the deadline.

gunte's Avatar


gunte
08.05.2013 , 06:47 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
Oh, I play Focus spec most of the times, cleared S&V HM first week and I was top DPS in the group. You do not seem to know how to work in team with your fellow sentinel(s). Before he pops Inspiration, you should have 30 stacks of Centering, that way for the duration of Inspiration, you will have 3 buffed Force Sweeps (2nd is buffed with Force Exhaustion, 3rd is buffed by your Valorous Call + Zen). By the time 3rd Force Sweep round is over, you will have have FE available again and you can start building stacks of Centering. It is all about co-ordinating Inspiration.

Depending on the DPS group setup, you'd better go Focus for TFB #1 and #3, S&V #1-#3. S&V #4-#5 is not a must, but still makes more sense.

10% is nothing. Remember, you have to work as a team and every DPS needs to pick the skill tree that suits the bossfight best (at least in nigthmare mode). As a Sentinel, you have to ask yourself what is top priority: killing adds quickly (Focus), doing spike damage (Combat) or help survival (Watchmen). It would not make sense if every saber form had same single target damage.
Sorry but 10% is absolutely huge in the current nightmare modes, i have no idea how you can say anything else if you have done tfb and s&v in nightmare..
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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
08.05.2013 , 07:31 AM | #15 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
First off, please accept my apologies for being a day late on this post. I was traveling this entire week, and the final deadline conflicted unfortunately with a certain airplane. :-( In any case, here we are!

PvP

Watchman/Annihilation currently suffers from a very long ramp-up time and is severely punished for any downtime due to the Merciless/Annihilate stacking buff. This ramp-up makes the spec nearly unconscionable in competitive PvP, and the downtime penalties cause severe issues in both PvP and certain PvE encounters (such as Titan 6 or Dread Guard). Would it be possible to improve the ramp-up and downtime penalties in this area? Perhaps by talenting Valorous Call/Frenzy to build Merciless/Annihilate stacks. Another idea would be to decrement Merciless/Annihilate stacks upon expiry rather than removing them entirely.

PvE

While Focus/Rage has excellent AoE DPS and on-demand burst, it falls significantly behind in terms of single-target DPS. In fact, dummy parses in the hands of skilled and geared players show a roughly 9% disparity between Focus/Rage and the other two specs on a single-target fight. This represents an unacceptable liability for most serious progression groups, as the majority of DPS pressure in current content comes in the form of hard enrage timers in single-target encounters. Despite this, the community is concerned that an increase to single-target DPS might make Focus/Rage the "go to" spec for sentinels/marauders. What are the design goals for Focus/Rage in PvE? Is the spec currently meeting those goals? If low single-target DPS is indeed the balancing factor for this spec, how is this justified with the current PvE design focus on single-target bosses?

All

Centering/Fury does not build for the duration of Zen/Berserk, Inspiration/Bloodthirst or Transcendence/Predation. This is a somewhat odd design decision since sentinels/marauders are penalized significantly when these raid buffs are used. This is a noticeable DPS loss for Watchman/Annihilation and Combat/Carnage, but it is absolutely devastating for Focus/Rage as their rotation is actually dependent on consistently building Centering/Fury (due to the Singularity/Shockwave mechanic). As such, most Focus/Rage sentinels/marauders actually click off the Inspiration/Bloodthirst buff when another sentinel/marauder provides it. No other DPS class is handicapped in this fashion. What is the design rationale for suppressing Centering/Fury build up during these buffs? Could this restriction be removed (especially when *another* sentinel/marauder has supplied the raid buff)?
These look good, I will pass them on to the Combat team and work on getting answers back to you guys hopefully sometime this week!

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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K_osss's Avatar


K_osss
08.05.2013 , 10:01 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TheCourier- View Post
Rage spec is not overpowered. Most teams on Pot5 only run 1-2 rage spec for ranked. Rage spec destroys some teams in non-ranked WZs, but 1 marksman sniper can shut out a rage spec player easily.
This is a true statement. Rage/Focus performs a certain task (AOE healing pressure) in ranked play. It can be mitigated easily in several ways and Bioware reducing damage would negate it's purpose. If you want to argue Focus/Rage's purpose or intent - that's a different discussion.

K_osss's Avatar


K_osss
08.05.2013 , 10:01 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
These look good, I will pass them on to the Combat team and work on getting answers back to you guys hopefully sometime this week!

-eric
Cool, thanks Eric!

and thanks to you as well KBN

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.05.2013 , 10:20 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Sprgmr View Post
I hope I'm not the only one slightly concerned that we missed the deadline.
Yeah, I'm really sorry about that. United is not enlightened enough to put wifi on all their planes.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.05.2013 , 10:33 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
Oh, I play Focus spec most of the times, cleared S&V HM first week and I was top DPS in the group. You do not seem to know how to work in team with your fellow sentinel(s). Before he pops Inspiration, you should have 30 stacks of Centering, that way for the duration of Inspiration, you will have 3 buffed Force Sweeps (2nd is buffed with Force Exhaustion, 3rd is buffed by your Valorous Call + Zen). By the time 3rd Force Sweep round is over, you will have have FE available again and you can start building stacks of Centering. It is all about co-ordinating Inspiration.
First Inspiration usually comes right off the bat. Unless you pre-center in Combat spec, you're not going to open with 30 stacks without using Valorous. If an up-front Inspiration is absolutely necessary, you are certainly free to play the respec trick right before the fight. It's still not great, but it should work. Late in a fight though, you're going to need to plan that Valorous very carefully, and the thing is that not all sentinel specs build Centering at the same rate, so your fellow sentinel will be at the ideal point to pop Inspiration as much as 10-12 seconds before (or after) you're ready for it. Either one of you delaying is a significant DPS loss (though it's worse for the Focus sentinel). Again, in Nightmare Mode, you need every iota of DPS. It sounds stupid, but delaying a Zen (or even worse, an Inspiration), even by a few seconds, is potentially wipe-inducing.

The point is that none of this matters if Centering built during Inspiration and Transcendence. Sentinels then no longer step on each other. Additionally, this allows the Focus sentinel to be the one to pop Inspiration if necessary, which is now *categorically* impossible (even with your 30 stacks into Valorous method).

Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
Depending on the DPS group setup, you'd better go Focus for TFB #1 and #3, S&V #1-#3. S&V #4-#5 is not a must, but still makes more sense.
Have you tried to Force Sweep a datacore recently? My group has a sentinel who's primary spec is Focus. They run it for literally every boss…except for Operator IX. They stay in Focus for 16 man, but it's just not possible in 8 man.

Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
10% is nothing. Remember, you have to work as a team and every DPS needs to pick the skill tree that suits the bossfight best (at least in nigthmare mode). As a Sentinel, you have to ask yourself what is top priority: killing adds quickly (Focus), doing spike damage (Combat) or help survival (Watchmen). It would not make sense if every saber form had same single target damage.
I would have sacrificed a whole flock of baby goats for an extra 10% DPS from *any* of our damage dealers while we were progressing on Nightmare Dread Guard. Heck, I would have made that sacrifice for 10% more DPS from either of our *tanks*. 10% is an enormous jump.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Chickensevil's Avatar


Chickensevil
08.05.2013 , 11:00 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I would have sacrificed a whole flock of baby goats for an extra 10% DPS from *any* of our damage dealers while we were progressing on Nightmare Dread Guard. Heck, I would have made that sacrifice for 10% more DPS from either of our *tanks*. 10% is an enormous jump.
This might* make a difference if you are considering your top dps gaining 10% (which a mar/sent should be on top or pretty close) since 10% of say 2600 is 260, which is quite a jump for a single person's numbers. But 10% on say a tank dps... I doubt that would make a huge difference.

But that is also NOT an AOE fight... so if someone is trying to be the best player for their team, then they would be trying to do the best single target damage. I don't think it is unfair to have a spec that excels at AOE. Last round this might have been helpful on Kephass in EC (1 fight out of 4 is not bad for an all dps class with 3 spec's). In this round there are a decent number of ADD fights, so again, I don't think it is unfair to the spec to have a few fights that it excels at. If you are trying to be the best, you are going to switch inbetween fights.
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