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I wish this game had a support class like Stim Fiends.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
I wish this game had a support class like Stim Fiends.

Individual's Avatar


Individual
06.06.2013 , 04:12 AM | #1
Just jumping from person to person buffing them would be awesome. I wish they had a class like this that would give a tad bit of healing and buff the heck out of the other classes. Would be a real fun class to play imo.

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
06.06.2013 , 06:19 AM | #2
The idea definitely has potential as a debuffer/dps class, maybe with support skills. That's mechanically... As to how we could fit it in the game framework (story, advanced classes, etc), that's goind to be trickier
Light Knights: Gecko - Syed - Vor'sann - Joya
Nightmare's Legion: Anhess - Avilus - Wittard - Schroedinger

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EnzoForMe
06.07.2013 , 10:52 AM | #3
Sort of like a bard. This idea would require a lot if balancing considerations but I think it would be pretty cool. Not to mention something new to refresh the gameplay.
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Kitru
06.07.2013 , 11:29 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
As to how we could fit it in the game framework (story, advanced classes, etc), that's goind to be trickier
As long as the explicit damage increase buffs were restricted (i.e. there's only one or two and they're more like a single target Inspiration and a targeted Combat Focus/Recharge Cells, both on longish recharge timers), I could see it working within the existing framework: healing would be very similar to Scoundrel healing (only with a lot more mobility to account for the bouncing to a target to inject them with whatever you're using) changed to have a heavy focus on absorb mechanics (only provide a HoT and a single direct heal, but provide an absorb shield with a small HoT/heal attached, and a direct absorb shield; it would be more preventative healing than explicit healing). The best comparison I can think of is Discipline Priests in WoW: heavy focus on "healing" through absorb shields with a limited number of basic heals to round out the roster for the inevitable damage that will get through. There would probably be some kind of poison based DoT DPS spec (i.e injecting them with a lethal cocktails or coating your weapon in said poisons) as well as something like a PCP-fiend spec (i.e. inject yourself with custom drugs that crank up your reflexes, strength, etc. similar to Doctor Lokin) for the other 2 trees.

As I see it, it's hard to come up with a TOR based class construct for it, however: you need a base class (which I don't really see this being) and two advanced classes (of which only one of these would be). It's hard to imagine a base class that would build up to something as specific as this, but it's possible (i.e. some kind of brawler/gladiator that either focuses on custom drugs or showmanship, one for each of the two ACs).

You couldn't really come up with a construct that focuses as much on explicit buffing and debuffing within the confines of TOR's balance system: support in this game is designed as healing. Pure force multiplier classes (which is what de/buff classes inevitably become) tend to break the game, generally by forcing them to take up minimum portions of groups. If the buffs get too strong, they'll sometimes become the *only* thing you want to have in a group (which is what happened in City of Heroes/Villains, where the devs went without a fundamental "healer as support" design and instead went with a de/buff focus for support; it didn't turn out well, from a balance perspective).
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GeckoOBac
06.07.2013 , 12:28 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
As I see it, it's hard to come up with a TOR based class construct for it, however: you need a base class (which I don't really see this being) and two advanced classes (of which only one of these would be). It's hard to imagine a base class that would build up to something as specific as this, but it's possible (i.e. some kind of brawler/gladiator that either focuses on custom drugs or showmanship, one for each of the two ACs).
This is mostly what I meant with that comment. Even if you could imagine such a base class + advanced class in terms of mechanics, I doubt coming up with any kind of story for such a class would be easy.
If you disregard directly the "jumping to the target" to apply the effects and we keep the core as "buffs/debuffs", then I could see for the imp side branching off a sith alchemist type: one AC goes for the straight debuffing/dps route, the other may go for the "pet class"/healer AC I was thinking about some time ago.
The problem remains on the rep side to find a suitable story for such a class and advanced classes.

Quote:
You couldn't really come up with a construct that focuses as much on explicit buffing and debuffing within the confines of TOR's balance system: support in this game is designed as healing. Pure force multiplier classes (which is what de/buff classes inevitably become) tend to break the game, generally by forcing them to take up minimum portions of groups. If the buffs get too strong, they'll sometimes become the *only* thing you want to have in a group (which is what happened in City of Heroes/Villains, where the devs went without a fundamental "healer as support" design and instead went with a de/buff focus for support; it didn't turn out well, from a balance perspective).
I agree, while there are some games that do support classes well (or well enough), they have always been designed that way from the beginning. Introducing the role in SWTOR now would be extremely difficult (if at all possible). I reckon the only way to make it work (realistically) would be to make it a "fake" debuffer, meaning that the debuffs (or buffs) would be extremely limited in extent or even affecting only the player, basically becoming simply parts of the rotations to keep the class at its peak efficiency (which would make it somewhat similar to a shadow tank, albeit on the dps side).
Unfortunately the few games that I know that managed to do support classes right are those that have clearly defined roles that go beyond "heal tank dps", and where every class has some ability in many fields and one role where they shine most (if not even unique to the class). IE: Loremasters in LOTRO. Kings of CCs, they brought to a raid a lot of utility in terms of offheals, debuffs and damage, but their most important role was that of "mana batteries", a role they were the only class suited to fulfill.
Light Knights: Gecko - Syed - Vor'sann - Joya
Nightmare's Legion: Anhess - Avilus - Wittard - Schroedinger

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Khaosfyre
06.08.2013 , 12:48 PM | #6
Going to be difficult to implement a bard/ministrel/group support type class into the game without the heavy PVP considerations. Let alone working out three varying trees for it.

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Mistress_Ivi
06.13.2013 , 11:59 AM | #7
Several abilities would be 'ally only' / 'enemy only' and of course 'self only'...

Each "ally only" ability could act like the Jugg/Guard intercede(sp) where not only does it apply the buff effect, but also literally jumps to an ally - cooldowns would be something like 15sec (with up to 4 abilities like this, allowing some limits to the class) and perhaps when this ability is used threat is increased slightly + damage done by the "fiend" player is reduced by [X]%.

Self only abilities would be purely evasive types, no self-heals or self-boosts.

As for attacks, as the class would have a "support" tree + two DPS trees... perhaps replace one dps tree for a tanking tree? As the threat could easily be managed with the default boosts etc.

I'd like to see this happen ,)
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iganksith
06.13.2013 , 12:09 PM | #8
*** is stim fiends?
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GeckoOBac
06.13.2013 , 12:51 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by iganksith View Post
*** is stim fiends?
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Light Knights: Gecko - Syed - Vor'sann - Joya
Nightmare's Legion: Anhess - Avilus - Wittard - Schroedinger