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Is it time to perhaps rethink the trinity system?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Is it time to perhaps rethink the trinity system?

DmdShiva's Avatar


DmdShiva
05.12.2013 , 11:04 PM | #221
Quote: Originally Posted by RobbyBlazeheart View Post
I will always love the healing cannon troopers have because when I think of a blaster cannon I think healer :P
This brings a smile to my face as I remember the "Sure, I'll heal you; let me dig out my Healing Arrow and shoot you" retort that the Archery/Trick Arrow Defenders in City of Heroes would bind to a convenient key after the thirtieth or fortieth idiot "R U Healzorz?" question...

DmdShiva's Avatar


DmdShiva
05.13.2013 , 12:16 AM | #222
Quote: Originally Posted by Jandi View Post
Impossible, only BW are oppressive enough to lock or delete threads they don't want to see!
Post a message alluding to the things City of Heroes did right, or suggesting that the out-of-the-blue shutdown that it got could happen to this game in the forums for any of NCSoft's other games; your post will be deleted and your account will be banned almost immediately.

Vigilanis's Avatar


Vigilanis
05.13.2013 , 03:22 AM | #223
Good article, I have to say that the Trinity system has never been a problem for me, I kind of like the comfort of going to a new MMO and knowing straight away what the roles on offer are, as I did in SWG, and here on SWTOR, even when I tried the (personal opinion) abortion that is WoW, that Trinity aspect helped me at least get into the game system easily.

As the article demonstrates really, it isn't Trinity that is the problem, it is the game that is built on top of that system that ultimately wins or fails...
The Legend of Vigi
The Sunrider Legacy

Niklarus's Avatar


Niklarus
05.13.2013 , 04:50 AM | #224
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
City of Heroes didnt require a trinity system, nor did it stop one from playing healer, buffer, tanker or dps.
If only more games had classes that flexible. *sigh* God, I miss CoH.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.13.2013 , 02:16 PM | #225
I just think that it's pretty important to relax the rigid trinity system in this game to allow the game to actually be more enjoyable for casual players.

Now, I personally do not think that means trinity needs to go. I think it just needs to be easier to play the role, and one also needs to be able to easily switch roles if needed. That is why I suggest a refinement and clarification of the ability trees combined with dual spec.

spectreclees's Avatar


spectreclees
05.13.2013 , 02:24 PM | #226
As it was probably beat down already in this thread. GW2 tried to use a no trinity system and well, let me just say I logged on to do one of the newer dungeons from the event they were having. It was a complete mess imo, constantly dying and reviving each other in combat is just not a fun system to play with.

Kilora's Avatar


Kilora
05.13.2013 , 02:28 PM | #227
Quote: Originally Posted by spectreclees View Post
As it was probably beat down already in this thread. GW2 tried to use a no trinity system and well, let me just say I logged on to do one of the newer dungeons from the event they were having. It was a complete mess imo, constantly dying and reviving each other in combat is just not a fun system to play with.
This is exactly why I don't play GW2 anymore. Only lasted about a month.

While I agree that we don't need a rigid Trinity system -- I want to heal. I will ALWAYS want to focus on healing. I love doing it. Any MMO that comes out and doesn't allow me to heal, I probably won't play.

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
05.13.2013 , 02:31 PM | #228
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
I just think that it's pretty important to relax the rigid trinity system in this game to allow the game to actually be more enjoyable for casual players.

Now, I personally do not think that means trinity needs to go. I think it just needs to be easier to play the role, and one also needs to be able to easily switch roles if needed. That is why I suggest a refinement and clarification of the ability trees combined with dual spec.
MMO's could learn a thing from DnD Version 4.

While not perfect, DnD 4.0 broke up the trinity system, that they invented btw, by allowing all classes to customize to a hybrid of pretty much any combination of offense/defence/utility that they wanted. To be a min/max tank you had to start as a tank-class but those who wanted to play a defensive DPS could do so quite easily, for example.

Noblis's Avatar


Noblis
05.13.2013 , 03:57 PM | #229
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
In a sword and sorcery setting, like D&D, I dont mind it. In SW or a modern setting? Never has made sense!

Luke doesn't go around saying "Here! I'll tank this!" or "You tank! I'll DPS them!"
They never say it. But they do it.
Remember in SW Episode 3 (Revenge of the Sith) when Obi-Wan and Anakin boarded the Sep. ship to "rescue"
Palpatine? During the fight in the hangar, the droids were all firing at the two Jedi while totally ignoring RD-D2.
I recall some nerds yelling "Wow, they are tanking in cloth armor ! Cool !" Those two Jedi were indeed
"avoidance tanking" aka "blink tanking." All the while, they were still doing DPS. Little R2 was just lucky or the mobs
didn't see him as a threat relative to the two Jedi. (R2-D2 is still lucky.)

A dedicated tank (blink tank or meat shield) just focuses the attention of the mobs upon himself / herself and hopefully less damage is going out to the other party members. If he / she can kill stuff at the same time -
all the better. It's easier on the healer's resources to heal the fewest number of team members. Dedecated DPS
are a dime-a-dozen (a friend calls them "O pos blood")

Anyways, that's my take on the Trinity System.
Hold up ! If we save Han now, there won't be anything for us to do at the beginning
of ROTJ !

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
05.13.2013 , 04:17 PM | #230
Here's the big problem...and to understand it you need a little history lesson:

When WoW was first released many years ago the Paladin had three skill trees. One for healing, one for DPS and one for tanking. Each tree was "ok" at what it was supposed to do but it wasn't that great. In fact healing was the only tree that didnt completely suck. No joke. At that time tanking and DPS were awful.

The reason why:
The developers wanted a class that had no specific job but could fill any role in a pinch. It could DPS, tank or heal but not nearly as good as the dedicated classes. The developers in their infinite wisdom gimped all 3 skill trees because it would be unfair to have a hybrid that was good at everything. They thought "we can avoid the pure trinity by adding a class that can do all 3 but it doesn't do it well". The intention was that a healing paladin could still DPS or tank, etc.

The problem:
The class sucked. It wasn't good at anything. People told the wow developers EVERY SINGLE DAY that a dedictated hybrid class doesn't work. It can't DPS, it can barely tank and the only thing it can do is heal. But the developers stuck by it for 5 years, 5 years they swore they could get a hybrid class to work so they could avoid the pure trinity. For 5 years Paladins were forced to heal because the developers thought that "fill in" hybrid would work. A few years ago they finally fixed it. Every skill trees does what it does best. It's no longer a crappy hybrid.

Why did I point this out?
Generally speaking people won't play classes that aren't good at something. It has to be something crucial to the game. If a game is designed around a system then every single class has to fit into that system to work. Letting players pick some goofy hybrid isn't going to work because it doesn't work in the system.



While its neat to think outside the box of the trinity, SWTOR was build on it and every class skill tree has to work within the system. Otherwise your left with classes people don't play because they suck at their "jobs".


Small note: the ONLY time you can expand the trinity is when you use a dedicated debuffer. You have to take most or all debuffs away from other classes and create on class that plays debuffer. FFXI used it. It was a red Mage. They took the BEST abilities in the game and forced you to bring a red Mage. It kind of sucked because debuffers don't get any exciting jobs. They just stand there and play wack a mole with their skills.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY