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Lore-wise Who Is The Most Powerful Character In-Game?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Lore-wise Who Is The Most Powerful Character In-Game?

Helig's Avatar


Helig
04.27.2013 , 10:21 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Bytemite View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhcKdlSsRVM

The Emperor shows up, yes, but I don't see Angral or the Emperor mention the ritual or anything like that. The Emperor only commands Angral to kill the Knight.

Because of existing canon about Revan, I am not sure the Emperor's plan existed yet. And if it did, Angral's plan couldn't have been part of it because the Emperor does not follow through on that.
Spoiler
. If that doesn't confirm that Angral was under the Emperor orders, I don't know what does.

As for the plan - Vitiate was planning this for eternity. The very reason for the Empire to exist, as is explained in Acts 2 and 3 (no, no clear "LOL I MAED TEH EMPIER 2 KEEL EVERYTHING 2 EAT ALL LIEF AND BECUM MOAR POWAFUL"), but there are a lot, a lot of references and indications from various sources - from the fallen to Imperial death cultists and Sith lords (including Scourge).

Uphrades wasn't as well-populated, and, as I recall, deaths over the Galaxy must be simultaneous for the ritual to take full power. Judging by how long it took for Vitiate to prepare, I don't think he'd waste such effort to eat some backwater planet. Not to mention leaving a trail that would give the Jedi more than a couple of hints.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
04.27.2013 , 10:35 AM | #72
Under orders to kill the Knight, and a useful tool in the service of possibly killing you? Sure. But neither of those actually says that Angral was acting in accordance with the Emperor's plans for his force ritual.

And there's indications in the broader story that the Emperor didn't even have that plan yet at the end of Chapter 1. Not least of which being the Emperor's own actions. And the whole thing with Revan.

Quote:
deaths over the Galaxy must be simultaneous for the ritual to take full power.
I'm double checking this, but my recollection is that the ritual didn't require the entire galaxy to be annihilated first. Only a few million people are needed to kickstart it, and then it's a dominoes effect as the Emperor's power goes stronger.

badou's Avatar


badou
04.27.2013 , 10:41 AM | #73
many forget about the trooper but if you see his story
Spoiler
But also he is the best of the best the military has to offer.Many dont know he would be able to kill a sith or a knight but i think he would be and it would be easy.Remember lets say a commando has heave armor a bit cannon and he can shoot him from range.Now he may not be the strongest but he is really strong too.Also smuggler vs sniper,sniper can kill the warrior or any sith or jedi from 800 meters away :@ and i dont think you would feel it with the force.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
04.27.2013 , 10:42 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Bytemite View Post
Under orders to kill the Knight, and a useful tool in the service of possibly killing you? Sure. But neither of those actually says that Angral was acting in accordance with the Emperor's plans for his force ritual.

And there's indications in the broader story that the Emperor didn't even have that plan yet at the end of Chapter 1. Not least of which being the Emperor's own actions.
The absense of (direct) evidence is not the evidence of absence. Put 2 and 2 together, take into account what the Emperor represents, how patient and intelligent he is. He didn't go to war with the Republic just to take revenge for the boo-boo that the bad Jedi left on his backside. He started it to ensure massacre exactly on the scale that his ritual needed.

Angral was making sure the Emperor's plan would succeed - Tython likely was not a part of it. He needed to throw the Jedi Order into disarray (pretty much the better half of the Concil, including the Grand Master, and hundreds of promising Padawans were situated there when Angral attacked), Republic and surviving Jedi outraged, and either weakened by division, or provoked to attack the Empire, breaking the Treaty and losing much neutral support.

Besides.... are you saying that the entire superweapon race which involved a gigantic fleet, hundreds of field agents and dozens of Sith was meant to.... destroy one Jedi who hasn't even come to power to threaten the Emperor yet?
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
04.27.2013 , 10:51 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Angral was making sure the Emperor's plan would succeed - Tython likely was not a part of it. He needed to throw the Jedi Order into disarray (pretty much the better half of the Concil, including the Grand Master, and hundreds of promising Padawans were situated there when Angral attacked), Republic and surviving Jedi outraged, and either weakened by division, or provoked to attack the Empire, breaking the Treaty and losing much neutral support.
hmm. It's possible that Angral was unaware of this, but that was the Emperor's use of Angral. I am still unsure that the plan existed at that point, but if it did, that's a possible explanation.

In fairness, I don't hold the JK's defiance of the Emperor against them. Only the responsibility they might have in what happened with Angral.

Quote:
Besides.... are you saying that the entire superweapon race which involved a gigantic fleet, hundreds of field agents and dozens of Sith was meant to.... destroy one Jedi who hasn't even come to power to threaten the Emperor yet?
For the Emperor, yes. For Angral, his sole agenda was revenge, as far as I can tell. I am still viewing this as both of those two players operating on their own and for their own reasons, but the Emperor having automatic deference when he randomly showed up. Depending on if my understanding of the force ritual and the thing with Revan is correct. I'm trying to confirm this, but most of the videos dealing with this are over 20 minutes long.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
04.27.2013 , 11:04 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Bytemite View Post
hmm. It's possible that Angral was unaware of this, but that was the Emperor's use of Angral. I am still unsure that the plan existed at that point, but if it did, that's a possible explanation.

For the Emperor, yes. For Angral, his sole agenda was revenge, as far as I can tell. Depending on if my understanding of the force ritual and the thing with Revan is correct. I'm trying to confirm this, but most of the videos dealing with this are over 20 minutes long.
The way I see it, the fabric of SWToR is one large piece, written as a whole. There are several ways to interpret the canon, several of which make sense, from the wholeness standpoint, and some capitalizing no implied plot holes.

Bioware writers are professionals, not your average fanfic crew. Pretty sure they kept the greater picture in mind when they wrote and rehashed the canon to fit together, to make it consistent.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
04.27.2013 , 11:10 AM | #77
It looks as though there are slight conflicts in the canon of the story, but if I ignore the Revan thing

Spoiler


However, at the End of Act 2:

Spoiler


I think that we're talking about maybe 20 million or so, and so perhaps that explains why that situation wasn't used for the ritual. I think you might be right on at least these two points.

I don't think that we can be sure Angral and Tarnis had inherently destructive plans for the planet prison, or that they were initially part of the Emperor's plans.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
04.27.2013 , 11:50 AM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Bytemite View Post
It looks as though there are slight conflicts in the canon of the story, but if I ignore the Revan thing

Spoiler


However, at the End of Act 2:

Spoiler


I think that we're talking about maybe 20 million or so, and so perhaps that explains why that situation wasn't used for the ritual. I think you might be right on at least these two points.

I don't think that we can be sure Angral and Tarnis had inherently destructive plans for the planet prison, or that they were initially part of the Emperor's plans.
I see no contradiction there. The genocides were supposed to be triggered in a rapid succession. But the Knight stopped them. Why weren't they all triggered preemptively when the Emperor/his minions caught wind of the Knight? He got there too fast. Preparations were not yet complete. Belsavis seemed to be the closest to completion, and the Knight caught up on the death cult on their way to Belsavis core.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
04.27.2013 , 02:51 PM | #79
Huh. Now the impression I got was that the Emperor had multiple plans in motion for Chapter 3 as a failsafe against the Jedi Knight in case they stopped one or two, as opposed to the Emperor needed all of the plans to go off for the ritual to work.

And the contradiction/ issue with canon I was mentioning is that Revan thing. There's some long game going on with Scourge.

Spoiler

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
04.27.2013 , 03:44 PM | #80
Since this is asking about player characters, I'm inclinded to think the title goes to the JK/SW/JC in a three way tie.

Lore wise, half the classes are not force sensative, and even come out and basically say "Oh great...a force user...I'm probably screwed."

I don't add in the SI with the other three, as I don't recall (and I could have just forgotten, as it's been a while) it being stated, unlike the other three, as them being so powerful in the force.

Now with the force spirits in play, the SI might be up there, but I believe there was an option to kick them all out/let them go (my SI kept them all in against what she said, but the one that said, "We made a pact that can not be broken!" and left), so I'm guessing there was an option to kick them all out?

But for SW universe, those three are said to be the best in the force, so it's likely a three way tie at this time, untill a later generation at any rate.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry